Can you beat Chris Evert today?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Gundam, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I have seen some 5.0s that were not exactly at the apex of fitness too, and they werent even vilas or Newk when they were in their prime.
     
    #51
  2. rjkardo

    rjkardo Rookie

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    I did not say 'beat' but I did say 'gave her a run for her money'.
    Chandra Rubin used to practice with the local men when she was home in Lafayette, La. Yes she would win. But they were close enough to give her a workout. Lori McNeil and Zina Garrison would play the Univ of Houston players when they were on the tour. They could not beat those guys.
     
    #52
  3. goober

    goober Legend

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    My money would be on Allen Iverson after at least month of playing tennis with some lessons. If he never picked up a raquet before he would lose to a 3.0. He would not be able to get a serve in and balls would be flying everywhere.
     
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  4. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I've been on court with one of Newcombe's contemporaries, Owen Davidson. "Crush a 5.0" is being kind. Anyone who has an NTRP has two chances of beating a former world class professional, slim and none.
     
    #54
  5. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    I think he might lose the first set if he'd never touched a racket before but figure it all out in time to win the match in three.;)
     
    #55
  6. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    This is true. Thanks for saying this for me during my absence.
     
    #56
  7. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    That's what I meant. Didn't mean Allen Iverson after he's been playing for a while.
     
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  8. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No worries, got your back bro.

    J
     
    #58
  9. guitarplayer

    guitarplayer Guest

    I think it was in the spring of 2004 during the Doral my company had a meeting there in Miami and Chris put on a teaching clinic. Later in the day she played a club pro one set drawn from a hat. Big guy, about 6 foot 2 a serve and volley guy. Many of the club pro's felt he would kill her.

    After the first few games, she caught on to his big serve and it was all over. Honestly he would rush the net and she would smoke passing shots by him. She won 6-3, he was worn out and she was just smiling. I don't think any of you would stand a chance. I was surprised at how hard she hit the ball. They were playing on HarTru courts.
     
    #59
  10. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    Rabbit - the guidelines that he is referring to are, in fact, meant to apply to world class players. Have you seen chart in question? It's the one that gives the actual NTRP rating for currently ranked tour players (7.0 if ranked in the Top 400). This same chart gives a breakdown by age, and McEnroe, as a former 7.0, would indeed fall in the 5.5 category.

    However, McEnroe is technically still a 7.0. This is because he had a Doubles ranking as high as 240 less than a year ago.

    All rules have exceptions. Consider that anyone of the same age as McEnroe that was ever ranked in the Top 400 would fall into the "minimum 5.5" category, which is equivalent to unranked Division 1 college players. To me, considering the age factor, that's probably about right for many former pros Mac's age; I'm sure there are 50 year-old former pros whose rank peaked around 300 whose games have fallen to the 5.5 level. On the other hand, there are guys like Vilas who might own 5.5s. The 5.5 thing is a general minimum guideline. They can't self-rate below it, but this is not to say that one couldn't rate above it.
     
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  11. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    so this was just a writer's comment, evert didn't actually say it?

    I'm sure she hit harder than she did when she was winning slams. Its amazing that some think equipment hasn't changed the game & that guys/gals who played on the pro tour in the 70s/80s can only hit as hard now as they did then. how fast was the club pro serving? how old was he?

    Saw Evert at Indian Wells, she looked in better shape now than when she was #1 in 1986. Bet she hasn't eaten a carb in 5 years(guess she was prepping for Greg Norman)
     
    #61
  12. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    :p .
     
    #62
  13. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    There you go. I've been waiting for somebody to post a story like this.
     
    #63
  14. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Have you ever seen the ratings guides?

    and finally from the USTA handbook on NTRP ratings

    Professionals or Open players compete not based on NTRP level, but on pure competition. They do not need a handicapping system like the NTRP. I do not see anywhere in the ratings guides where being in the Top 400 is a qualification for being a 7.0 or world class player. There is 1000 times more difference between a world class player and a 5.0 than between a 5.0 and a 3.0.

    The only reason for the NTRP is to guarantee competitive matches at level. Anyone with an NTRP rating would never, ever get a game off of a player who does this for a living.

    Saying that McEnroe, who still competes/wins in world class professional level doubles is a 5.5 is laughable and indefensible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
    #64
  15. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    the club pro was probably a 4.0-4.5...club pros have skillsets all over the place. the fact he was a club pro means pretty much zero.
     
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  16. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I agree being a "club pro", such as what you claim to be doesn't mean anything. As I have said before and you always dismiss my claims, most certified "pros" aren't very good players.
     
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  17. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    i only tend to dismiss your ridiculous claims.....i agree with you that being a certified pro means almost nothing (that's what i posted earlier), so i've no clue wht you are bringing in the drama....any profession at which you can be certified to teach by spending only 2 days at a workshop, renders the certification non sequitor and extremely dilluted.. other than being able to say you are certified.

    not that it matters, but i learned to teach over an extended period of time mentoring under a former all american from rice and a former coach of the naval academy..both were exceptional people and exceptional teaching professionals...i'll take training like that and the wisdom of teaching for a period of time over pretty much anything. now adays you see 'certified' teaching pros who can not only properly demonstrate some shots, but cant even properly execute them during their actual play..
     
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  18. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    You guys both live in Florida, right? Could we arrange a grudge match between you guys? Who would win?
     
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  19. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Glad to see you finally caught on to my "ridiculous claims", as this wasn't your stance a few months back when I said the same thing you are saying here.

    By the way, nobody asked about your "tennis" history. LMAO
     
    #69
  20. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Yes! Are you guys willing to play each other? Winner takes all.

    Mojo wins, and Drakulie must switch from his PS85/k90 to a 9 ounce
    oversize Volkl strung with isolightspeed/LAclippers.

    Drakulie wins, and Mojo must switch to the 20 ounce leaded-up PS85
    with kevlar at 90 lbs.
     
    #70
  21. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    patently untrue..another reason why i dont care to hang with you. you're just trying to stir up a bunch of crap <again>. excuse me if i dont wish to play. adios
     
    #71
  22. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    If you recall, I didn't ever say Mac was a 5.5. I said that he's a current 7.0.

    And yes, I have seen the guidelines you refer to. And I've also seen this, which, perhaps, you haven't:

    http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_7373.pdf?12/16/04 4:15:22 PM

    The guy who administered my test to become a USPTA pro showed me this document as a guideline for giving ratings to former college players looking to compete in USTA events. This is the USTA Elite Player guideline, check the third page. It gives a rating scale that includes former 7.0 players, and this is what raidhen was referring to, and I was referring to, not the USTA self-rating guideline that you've quoted at me.
     
    #72
  23. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Usually people who are liars (YOU) don't like to hang with people who call them on it (ME).

    By the way, you "don't wish to play"? Come on NBMJ! Please play tennis with me! PLEASE!!
     
    #73
  24. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I already did. NBMJ forfeited.
     
    #74
  25. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I'm sorry, did you not post that bolded selection above? You qualify that statement afterward by saying "techincally still a 7.0" but the clear implication here is that McEnroe is a 5.5. I can only infer from that statement that prior to McEnroe's endeavor in doubles, you consider him a 5.5 because he didn't have a world ranking of 400 or better. This is legalistic jargonism at its worst. Do you really think just because he hadn't played the anyone in their right mind would allow John McEnroe to self-rate 5.5 for play in the NTRP system?

    To put it more simply, do you think that Jim Courier, Todd Martin, Pat Cash, Aaron Krickstein, Wayne Ferriera, Mats Wilander, and Magnus Larsson are eligible to play 5.5 tennis?

    Again, I say that the NTRP system is for amateur players who need some way for skill matching. It is simply a more refined system than the old "A", "B", "C", Lemon Flight system that preceded it. Any attempt to quantify the abilities of a professional on this system is flawed because they don't need handicaps to determine who plays who. The professional system is pure Darwinism, the fittest survive and the ones who don't win do something else.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
    #75
  26. jamumafa

    jamumafa Semi-Pro

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    Going back to the fat belly argument for the men, what about Kafelnikov? I know he only just retired, and would still kill a lot of the players here, but how well d'ya think he'd move?
     
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  27. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    This was not the implication that I meant, though I can see where it could come off as such.

    The implication that I meant was what I said: that 5.5 is the bare minimum that a player of his age, as a former 7.0, could rate; I also said that many players would actually be better. I understood then and still understand that McEnroe is much better than a 5.5. I was merely pointing out that even in a technical sense he's still a 7.0 because of his current ranking, and I do feel that his skill level is at the 7.0 level.

    My initial reason for posting was to clear up the fact that there is indeed a USTA document that has rating levels meant for world class players. The intent of USTA's rating system is to include anyone who uses a tennis racquet, from absolute beginner to world class. Obviously world class players like McEnroe don't need USTA numbers, but they do, in fact, exist for them: 7.0 for current, with a scaling chart that decreases this minimum number with age.

    Did you read the rest of my last post, or look at the chart? The chart exists as a minimum rating guideline for all past and present elite players.

    Just to clarify: I am not saying that McEnroe is really a 5.5 player. I am not trying to imply that he is a 5.5 player. I agree that his competition level is much higher than this, and have indeed pointed out that he is a current 7.0 player.
     
    #77
  28. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Ok, well here's another story for you. About five years ago one of the local teaching pros here who was about 50 was serving as a volunteer coach for the University of Texas and he invited a group of us to scrimmage against the women. I had a 5.0 computer rating at the time. I played the #2 player and she killed me 61,61. But that's not the point of the story, the teaching pro/coach was easily a 5.5, ranked #2 in Texas in the 50's he was not some 4.0/4.5 teaching pro. He went three sets with the #1 player and barely won. I can guarantee that Evert is a lot better than the woman he played that day. The one thing I learned that day is not to stay on the baseline against college level women....
     
    #78
  29. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    I know little about tennis, but I would think engaging in baseline rallies with women of similar ability is rarely a good idea for men, whether it be at the 5.5 level or 2.5 level. Dem broads can be annoyingly consistent, so we must be aggressive and dominate the net and overwhelm them with testosterone!!

    That's the way I roll when playing a skirt.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
    #79
  30. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    OK, my point being, same as it as in my first post and others, you can't apply NTRP ratings to anyone who makes or made a living playing tennis. Even Jimmy Connors and John Lloyd who've both had joint replacements are probably still hands down better players than those of us who PAY to play. Again, saying that <insert pro name here> fits the bill for an NTRP level just ain't right.
     
    #80
  31. Gundam

    Gundam Semi-Pro

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    Ehe he he :grin:
    Anyway, thank you all for the comments~.
    Hmm, I am not sure whether it was her saying or editor's though (beating 95% of males on the planet).
     
    #81
  32. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Amen. Get yee to net or get you THUMPED. ;) CC
     
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  33. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    I am hoping to make my way down Amelia Island way this summer and have a hit with the Mojo-Nator. What are you guys willing to pay if I bring along my Sony HD Handy-Cam and post it on YouTube.com?? ;) CC
     
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  34. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Oh, and by the way, no you can't beat Chris Evert now. CC
     
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  35. grizzly4life

    grizzly4life Professional

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    i think chris evert TODAY would kill most 5.0's i know.

    i think allen iverson (how did he get in here?) or stephen marbury would be very competitive with 4.0's with a month's hard training (from beginnner status).... i've seen high school point guards around here pick up the game very, very fast..... my ratings are basically club ratings (a little inflated), not your city-wide sand-bagging 4.0 tournament.
     
    #85
  36. Steven87

    Steven87 Semi-Pro

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    I think I could actually out-rally Chris Evert. My fitness>hers
     
    #86
  37. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    How about Joachim Noah? 7 ft self-rated 3.5 player.
     
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  38. carrwash13

    carrwash13 Rookie

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    I played (just hit with) Tom Gullikson once and he was still amazing at 56 years old. A little slower in the feet but the touch was there and that's all that mattered. I have a feeling Evert would be the same way. I'm saying she'd beat a 5.0.....but no way a 5.5 since they are college level
     
    #88
  39. tiptopperoo

    tiptopperoo New User

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    I would chop Newk. The guy can barely walk, he has either already had or is due for a knee reco. Now if he got to the ball i would be in trouble, but i dont think he would get to it. Hell I could beat Federer if someone kneecapped him first, but I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

    BTW being an Aussie I have no idea what a '5' is.
     
    #89
  40. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    Noah plays tennis??

    we should call her up and set up a match and see! or just have her post a reply. someone go challenege her at the academy and bring a cam. i personally think shes not motivated enough to win. didnt she used to say after retirement'what?i can do whatever i want to do today?"
     
    #90
  41. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Tip, we'll send Shane Stant to whack Fed before your match. Lead pipe cinch he can get the job done.
     
    #91
  42. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    ...but her experience / match toughness / groundstrokes / serves / volleys /
    overheads / anticipation+footwork (=court coverage) / hand-eye coordination /
    touch / placement / strategy >>>> yours:)
     
    #92
  43. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^^LOL. Don't forget she use to be a party animal too!
     
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  44. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    No you could not beat Chris Evert today. Come back and try again when she is 80.
     
    #94
  45. tennus

    tennus Rookie

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    Hahahahaha ! Steven 87 you are 29 years old in your details ? A freshman in high school ? A self rated 4.0 ? This person does not know who he is let alone beat a legend of the game:

    #1
    Steven87
    Rookie


    Join Date: May 2006
    Posts: 294 Rate my hitting

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4M9P...=groundstrokes

    07-20-2006, 05:01 AM #1
    Steven87
    Rookie


    Join Date: May 2006
    Posts: 294 You guys are weird.....(pushers)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Im a 4.0 player(that video wasnt me, surprise surprise) and I LOVE pushers. Its like free practice for my groundstrokes. True pushers shots are usually semi-high and long or at the service lines, thats an EASY ball to just put away. It's even pretty fun because the rallies are always in your control Or if you can put it away, just brush it up when it's in the air. Simple lob back with some topspin which should put you in favor. And dont forget, if the pusher's footwork is better than your's, maybe you should re-think about being mad at them instead of yourselves.
    05-03-2006, 03:29 PM #1
    Steven87
    Rookie


    Join Date: May 2006
    Posts: 294 Ok, here we go

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hi. I started tennis this year, and have been taking lessons since late summer last year. I play for my high school team and I am a freshman. I'm JV unfortunately. Now, I've improved a WHOLE lot, if I must admit myself. I used to not know how to hit the ball, but i'm getting technical now. Here are some questions I have that i'm hoping you fine gentlemen can answer. I am about 5'5" so I am considered pretty short. I use a Wilson nSix One 95 I got just not too long ago. I refuse to use a loop on my forehands because it's caused numerous problems in the past. Now here are my questions.

    1. A moderately fast and high topspin forehand is the shot to cause errors on the oppenent at my level, correct?

    2. I mess up with a Semi-Wester grip, why? I can get it mostly these days, but the shots are not consistent as my natural eastern grip I originally used. I use this as my topspin grip, and can get it sometimes, but it is very inconsistent. And when I use it to hit for baseline rallies, it always just goes for the net or goes WAY to high and out. My eastern forehand isn't THE most consistent either, although it works for me at good rates.

    3. You all say brush the ball up from high to low. I play with kids who hit the ball high(again, i'm JV). When it's too high, how am I supposed to go from the bottom to up? I'm too short and it seems complicated for me.

    4. My backhand is ok and I use a 2 hander. I hit VERY consistently with it. Although I wish I could use a BH slice, any help? I just slice but it NEVER goes over.

    5. Is it true a semi-wide leg spread in your stance is the best way for you to hit and use your footwork?

    6. What can I do to improve my game? NOTE: My net game is THE weakest probably, but my baseline game makes up partly. I wish I could be more consistent in my forehands/serves/volleys/and footwork/shots in general, any suggestions?

    Thanks for your time and future help. I hope to learn much from this place

    EDIT: Oh and yes....I WANT to be a pusher, because at my level, I think that could work. As I said before, I NEED consistency
     
    #95
  46. PDJ

    PDJ Hall of Fame

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    This made me laugh!
    I don't understand the American rating system, but saw Evert hitting (on a documentary) with national juniors (around 18 years old) and she looked to be hitting pretty crisply with exceptional timing. She'd certainly take the best players at my club - not that she'd want to!
    Given the average standard across the planet, its not too much of a stretch to say she's better than at least 90% of active players, given that many are still playing in their 70s and beyond - there's a 90 year old who still plays at my club and many in their late 70s/mid 80s. Hell, its like cocoon on the courts mid-week! And fair play to them.
     
    #96
  47. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    Wow, if Chrissie hooks with young Noah she completes the Marriage Slam!
     
    #97
  48. Ironwood

    Ironwood Semi-Pro

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    Yes, when Chris was #1, I recall it being said she could not beat her brother John who was then playing for Auburn. Don't know whether it was a brother/sister thing, or if indeed the #1 woman at the time could not beat a top level college male, let alone any males on the tour.
     
    #98
  49. vandre

    vandre Hall of Fame

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    ...or maybe 100.

    we went to a resort and my wife was paired up with a young lady of 93 years. her name escapes me but she used to play international exhibitions (most notably against the Aussies). she schooled my wife, would have schooled me and most other players at the club level. even at 93, she was still hitting insanely crisp strokes and while i'm sure she didn't move like she was hitting strokes that make it difficult to hit drop shots or move the ball around.

    i'm sure chrissie would be on another level or two beyond this still.
     
    #99
  50. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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