Can You Forgive Federer?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TTMR, Apr 23, 2013.

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Can you forgive Federer for RG 2011?

  1. No - He should have tanked or played down to his age to stop Nadal

    7 vote(s)
    11.9%
  2. Yes - I would rather Djokovic have won, but Fed should never tank

    22 vote(s)
    37.3%
  3. Yes - Djokovic is as bad as Nadal and together are an assault against classical tennis

    22 vote(s)
    37.3%
  4. Yes - He should have won the SF, then withdrawn from the final to de-legitimatize Nadal's title

    8 vote(s)
    13.6%
  1. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I see you subscribe to the strategy of "the best defense is an offense".

    You have ignored my point and you cannot come up with even one Federer hate thread not one.

    But we digress .....the main point of even this hate filled thread .....wishing Federer throw a match just because Nadal is hated is sad.

    The reason for the hatred is that Nadal has gotten the better of Federer and has Arguably .....repeat ARGUABLY stood in Federers claim to being the goat.
     
  2. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Ahhh you miss the point .

    I never said Nadal was the goat....and I'm not arguing either side .

    All I said was that the hatred displayed on this board is due to the fact that Nadal has caused a lot of pain to Fed fans and has arguably stood in his way to being the goat.

    If not for Nadal Fed would be undeniably the goat.....

    Again though what is goat? Clearly Federer is the most successful ....that's a fact .

    You can undisputedlynsaybthe federer has the greatest success record of all time . But that's quite different than saying he is the best.....

    And this is the reason for this absolute idiotic thread and the hatred that is spewed throughout this board.

    Simply put : sore losers
     
  3. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Well no Nadal is the clay court goat....and outside of TW it's pretty much accepted by the world

    I think you would be hard pressed to find even one pro or ex pro to say that Nadal is not the goat of clay court.

    On the other hand there are a Ton of pros who say that Federer cannot be considered the goat.......

    In fact that whole "success vs best" theory.....it's not mine .....it's Boris Becker who said it ......and he does NOT consider Federer to be the best ever .
     
  4. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Nah, it's all subjective. He didn't beat Borg or any multi time FO champion to his wins. His biggest competition was Federer, a clay weakling, who lost his first 11 matches on clay, and its his worst surface. Because what you are saying is hypocritical, since Nadal didn't play with wooden racquets, he didn't go up against a deep clay field, his 81 match win streak is in the so called weak era that Federer haters like to throw around. There can be many points.

    As far as GOAT is concerned, or surface GOAT, it is all subjective, There was never a complete predefined list that says you must do X, Y , Z and blah blah blah to be GOAT. There is no GOAT offical title that someone is given at the end of the season, or a career. It is just something people bestow, because that is what they feel or think, and that makes everything subjective. And it seems that most of the world considers Federer the GOAT, that's not me saying, that is the majority that says it.
     
  5. single_handed_champion

    single_handed_champion Professional

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    Forgive? :lol: I worship him for it.
     
  6. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Well no offense I'll take Borgs, vilas ,mcenroe , Agassi Federer, laver opinions over yours .

    In fact I don't think you can find any of the goats to say differently not one .
     
  8. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Hey, I am taking no offense. But then you have millions and millions around the world that call Federer the GOAT. I guess the millions don't carry any weight? They are all dumb right?

    And remember, you are agreeing with an OPINION, not a FACT. You are entitled to it, but it is still not FACT. :)
     
  9. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    There's a difference ....

    Nadal is pretty much the undisputed goat of clay by all the experts .....in fact I would say that among all the experts there is not even one that says otherwise .

    With Federer on the other hand my guess is that actually an equal amount of the experts say that Fed is not the goat......they did start out to say that when he won the FO......but afterwards many seemed to take it all back.

    I think you can probably find am equal amount of experts on both sides of the debate.

    But if Nadal was not the thorn in Feds side then Fed would be clearly the goat and that is why Nadal is hated and stupid threads like this are written .

    I'm getting tired of myself writing the same thing over and over again. I wish you guys would man up.

    Fed is your favorite player. You love his style and you consider him the GOAT. There's a logical argument for that.....it's a valid point . But trashing Nasal to prove that point is just poor sportsmanship .

    Argue your points without attacking Nadal , without asking fed to throw matches just so Nadal loses.

    As far as the goatness debate ....the only real answer is ....there is no clear answer . It's debatable .
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  10. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    I don't consider him GOAT, I said before, it is all subjective and there are too many variables. I consider him the most accomplished titles wise, and that is ok for me. And the same for Nadal on clay. And I certainly don't trash Nadal. But you certainly like taking the gloves off when you talk about Federer.

    And as far as you getting tired. All you do is say the same the thing over and over again, but that is your opinion, you are entitled to it, but why should anyone here agree with you? They can anyone they want GOAT.
     
  11. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I have not said a bad word about Federer....

    It's all in your mind due to a hypersensitivity of an imagined attack on your hero when none exists .

    The only point of my threads is to point out the hatred towards Nadal because of what he has done to Federer.

    The op would rather Fed throw a match in the hopes Nadal loses. That's pure hatred.

    The funny thing is the OP should be rooting the opposite way . Feds biggest danger to being considered the GOAT is no longer Nadal.....it's JOker.


    If Joker beats Nadal at the FO there will be a very good argument made that Joker is the goat !!

    So you fed fans better start rooting for Nadal to win the FO or Feds stats are toast.
     
  12. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Beating Rafa isn't the ultimate achievement. Djokovic beating a de-primed Nadal in 2013 won't place him next to Federer...
     
  13. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Everything you say is said to belittle Federer in some degree or another. So when you come here acting all righteous, it shows double standards.

    For one, yes, this is a hate thread, and the OP is fully open Nadal hater. At least he doesn't hide it, he gets banned for it, but he is very open with it. I don't agree with it. But when one hater comes in having a go at other haters, while trying to act all balanced and fair, when all he is doing is defending his hero, that is when the double standards come in.

    Federer is my hero...ah, you mean like how Nadal is yours?

    Regarding Djokovic, I think many on here will let you know how I feel about him, if you haven't seen any of my posts regarding where I stand on Djokovic's success.
     
  14. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Backbored

    Backbored Hall of Fame

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    Fed is the Conan of the tennis world. He already has.
    Crushed his enemies, seen them driven before him, and heard the lamentation of their women.
    That is what is best in life.
    The rest is just icing on the cake.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Couldn't disagree more, the TTMR (the OP) is certainly not a Nadal hater (quite the opposite actually, I think he's a big Nadal fan), he's just being utterly sarcastic and ridiculing Fed fans which is his modus operandi.

    Just look at the poll options for Pete's sake.
     
  17. Polaris

    Polaris Hall of Fame

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    +1. Zagor is right.
     
  18. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, TTMR is like an intellectual and diplomatic version of JV. :)
     
  19. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Wouldn't say that, he's nowhere near as venomous towards Fed (or as annoying for that matter), I could honestly picture JV pulling out his hair and/or throwing the TV out the window when Fed won Wimbledon last year.

    TTMR is just a very eloquent Nadal fan who dislikes the treatment his favourite player receives on TW from Fed fans (among other things such as overrating the talent/potential of any big hitter that comes around while underrating defensive players, the way he perceives it atleast) and expresses that discontent through sarcasm.
     
  20. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    The hate against Federer from some posters is evident. But ofcourse it is is hard to argue with people who come up with:

    I never said you said so, so no I did not miss the point.
     
  21. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Deleted
    10chx
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  22. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    People who do not like Nadal have given valid other reasons, so you are straw arguing. And you miss the irony of the OP, so you are actually totally off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  23. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Arguably the point of your threads is a projection of your own mindset ("I would hate Nadal too of I were in their shoes"). And your persistance arguably indicative of your grudge against Federer. Which is arguably due to the factors I mentioned in post 105.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  24. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Conan???

    Ok now come on......Feds a lot of things but Conan??

    I think everyone would agree that Fed is the metrosexual of tennis ........everyone refers to his "feathery touch" in fact his slogan was "feel the touch".

    Nadal with the bulging muscles and brute strength tennis is the Conan of tennis. This is why Pete Sampras refers to Nadal as a "BEAST"
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  25. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    So you couldn't find one bad word that I said about Federer....I'm glad you admit that


    Now I will defend myself.

    I do not hate Federer.....in fact I like Federer......his game is just amazing !!


    But I am the Dark Knight (and superman technically) because I stand for truth justice and the American way :)......and the b.s. insane fed fans here blow out of proportion is criminal.


    Why can't you root for Federer and respect Nadal at the same time?

    What Im doing is just saying the truth and blowing apart insane myths that people use to somehow prove their hero is God.

    Federer is GREAT and Nadal is great as well. I appreciate BOTH of them.....

    Now I stand for the truth...and the cold hard truth is you guys are sore losers and need to man up a little.....maybe become a little more like your hero and take a lesson from Roger himself!....who incidentally would be embarrassed about the way you behave.

    The Dark Knight exists to administor justice......

    You said :

    Where is the justice? Instead people just jump on the bandwagon......when in truth the op should be banned and the thread closed. Instead the OP is in the hall of fame.

    No justice no peace.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  26. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    And the other way around, right? And most people do exactly that. Your onesided fixation indicates that you arguably have a grudge against Federer.
     
  27. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    No grudge at all.....I don't know the man.

    He is a great champion and his game is the most beautiful game I have ever seen.

    I prefer however a more brutal game like Nadals ; however I appreciate the elegance and the pure poetry of Federers game as well.

    The clash of styles makes great tennis and I miss their battles.

    If you love Borg does that mean you should hate Mcenroe ? If you love Sampras does it mean you have to hate Agassi?

    I guess maybe the Fed Nadal rivalry is different because in the grand slams the situation has been pretty one sided.....

    Actually I take that back .....the Sampras Agassi slams were one sided as well but there was not this hatred that exists today.

    I guess the Federer vs. Nadal rivalry is unique in that it's the first time I'm such a rivalry the #2 dominates the #1 in slam matches. That is sort of weird ?

    The bottom line is though it makes for great tennis and I love both players.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  28. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    What is the H2H between Sampras and Agassi at AO and FO?
     
  29. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Well a bit different .

    Sampras fans never got upset about the FO because Pete wasn't supposed to win any of them anyway. It's not like he ever even made it to a final. Plus I only think Andre won one FO? And I'm not even sure how many times they met at the FO.

    The AO same thing .....I think Agassi has that one win over Sampras ?? Really not sure at all.

    With Federer and Nadal complete different story .....It was bad enough for Fed fans that Nadal was winning at the FO all that time . However Fed fans could live with that and labeled Nadal as a clay court specialist.

    But then when Nadal beat Fed at Wimbledon that was just to much to bear....and then to run their faces in it Nadal beat Fed bad at the AO to the point that Fed cried and Nadal had to apologize for winning ......now that really pissed Fed fans at TW off BIG TIME.

    Venom and pure hatred ensued. I don't think that's right .....just suck it up.....they are both great!
     
  30. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    I simply asked a question. What is the H2H between Agassi and Sampras at the first two slams of the year?

    Answer - 3 - 0 in favor of Agassi.
    Now, if they played more and more matches on surfaces that suit Agassi's game more than Sampras, do you think it would benefit Agassi more or Sampras, just going by the number I have given you?

    The thing is Agassi played Sampras more on surfaces that suited Sampras more than they suited Agassi. So it is considered one sided, but in reality, it shows that Sampras dominated Agassi on surfaces that benefited his game more.

    Agassi has a combined 5 slams at the first two events, plus two runner ups. Sampras has two titles and a runner up...to Agassi.

    So, it is evident here, that a player who gets to plays in conditions that benefit his game more, will have a good advantage. It is never completely cut and dry.
     
  31. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    You already knew the answer to your question so it wasn't really an honest question .

    I pointed out why there is hatred like these threads and the differences of the Agassi and Sampras rivalry.

    I think it should be clear now.
     
  32. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Not if one of them is surface goat, and the other is the second best on that surface in the era.
     
  33. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I feel the same. And that makes your lopsided hateinterest a bit weird.
     
  34. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, but I asked you, so you can see how surfaces and conditions can benefit one player more than another. You spoke about a one sided rivalry that they had, well, break it down, and look at, and you'll see that was no the full truth. This is why I asked you. And this shows that in rivalries, conditions can come to the aid of a player whose game is more enhanced by certain factors, and it can also be detrimental to the game of another at the same time.

    You focus wayyyyyy to much on this Federer Nadal H2H, that is the point of most of your posting. We get it, Nadal has a deservedly better H2H against Federer. Good for him. But as I have shown in the Sampras - Agassi rivalry, that so many say was one sided over the years, it's never that cut and dry.
     
  35. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    You miss my point .

    I'm not getting into arguments about who is better or surfaces or anything like that.

    I'm simply stating that the reall Nadal hatred on these boards started with Nadals win at Wimbledon over Federer and got even worse after the AO.

    Sure there was quite a bit of hatred after Nadals wins at the FO but the real hatred started at Nadals win of the greatest match of all time .

    As to surfaces and domination etc etc .....that's a whole different debate and one that I'm not interested in.
     
  36. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    And you're missing mine. So lets just leave it at that.
     
  37. Backbored

    Backbored Hall of Fame

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    I didn’t mean it to be, in the physical sense, but in the accomplished sense. He has done all those things in his heyday. Now that he is winding down a bit he can look back and be proud of what he has done and how he did it.
     
  38. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Yet the hate thread you quoted was from 2005.
     
  39. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Actually this thread is a hate thread
     
  40. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    No that is more your lopsided preoccupation.
     
  41. xan

    xan Professional

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    corrected it for you.
     
  42. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Hmmmm....maybe I didn't make myself clear. It has been actually labeled as the greatest match of all time by anyone that matters. Among those experts it's undisputed as the greatest match of all time .

    But here let me give you an illustration so it's abundantly clear :

    Get over it already!!

    [​IMG]
     
  43. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    The poll choices are all just plain awful. I did not vote.
     
  44. xan

    xan Professional

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    wow media hyping **** to sell it out, imagine that.
    no i don't need to get over anything, some of you need to stop being so butthurt and realize not everyone drools over fedal like you do.
     
  45. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Good for you .

    Me neither . It's a pathetic thread .
     
  46. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Media hyping ? So you think that only sports illustrated called it the greatest match ever?

    So Laver , Mcenroe and Borg to just name a few were also media hyping?

    You really need to man up and just get over it and stop promoting hateful threads like this just because Fed lost.

    Fed may in fact be the goat .....that doesn't mean you have to trash and hate Nadal .....it is possible to support Federer without hating Nadal.
     
  47. xan

    xan Professional

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    yes, hyping a product to sell it out. in fact whole fedal rivalry has been blown out of proportions it's unbelievable.

    yes, their opinions changes with every passing month.

    and, i don't need to do anything. I don't promote this thread, and i don't hate Nadal in the slightest, in fact he is one of my favorite players. same goes for fed. and I enjoy watching their tennis tremendously. it's their ignorant fans that rub me wrong way.
     
  48. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Well I suppose you are entitled to your opinion....

    However it was certainly the greatest match I have ever watched and most of the world agrees.....but that's only an opinion and it doesn't make it right .

    As far as Federers finals honestly they were some of the most boring I have ever seen except for the Fed Nadal Wimbledon of 2007 which Fed won and te Federer Roddick final was also incredibly exciting .....and if course the Joker fed final with the amazing Joker return !! Greatest shot in tennis history .

    I do agree with you about the fans . It's terrible .
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013

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