Friedman Whip
Professional
I hope you've learned at least something from this.
Can't get a noticeable curve for my serve
- Thread starter AngryGermanGuy
- Start date
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
You described two Federer serves. I wanted to see high speed video of what you meant. Google: Federer serve slow motion Youtube
Just copy the Youtube web address and aste in the Reply box. Add a few word with the times in shown in the video.
I find that word descriptions alone are not very clear and subject to misinterpretations. This is especially true since clearly defined joint motion terms are often used in undefined ways in discussing tennis strokes. I don't understand your stroke that you described in post #120 or the Federer serves. High speed videos give the best descriptions, but they can be misinterpreted.
I gave you an outline of information on the high level serve that I believe identifies some essential subjects. It is not an instruction on how to do it or whether that technique is suitable for you.
Just copy the Youtube web address and aste in the Reply box. Add a few word with the times in shown in the video.
I find that word descriptions alone are not very clear and subject to misinterpretations. This is especially true since clearly defined joint motion terms are often used in undefined ways in discussing tennis strokes. I don't understand your stroke that you described in post #120 or the Federer serves. High speed videos give the best descriptions, but they can be misinterpreted.
I gave you an outline of information on the high level serve that I believe identifies some essential subjects. It is not an instruction on how to do it or whether that technique is suitable for you.
3fees
G.O.A.T.
1.) Slice Serve, two major variants, one that features pronation motion and the other that features a chop motion, what both have in common is your exchanging power for spin, you have to think felt-that is grazing the ball hitting as little as possible of it to get maximum side spin. The chop motion hits at about 3 o' clock, the pronation method-hits the back of the ball at 7 or 8 o clock and finishes about 2 oclock
2.) Kick Serve vs Topspin serve, Kick serve is hit off the back heel of your shoe, top spin is aligned to the middle of the front foot, Kick serve which bounces higher than topspin as it is hit off center from 7 or 8 to 1, top spin is 6 to 12. Top spin bounce forward and climb the fence, Kick will hit the back fence and spin off the fence to right side.
As with any insights you have to adapt it to your form and get comfortable with it.
I had trouble with off and on slice served to deuce court, I watched videos and blah , blah, blah, tried them out and Nope still the same, then I varied my ball toss and all of them sliced good, I traced it to my ball toss,,Ball toss is everything, end of story.
Cheers
3fees
2.) Kick Serve vs Topspin serve, Kick serve is hit off the back heel of your shoe, top spin is aligned to the middle of the front foot, Kick serve which bounces higher than topspin as it is hit off center from 7 or 8 to 1, top spin is 6 to 12. Top spin bounce forward and climb the fence, Kick will hit the back fence and spin off the fence to right side.
As with any insights you have to adapt it to your form and get comfortable with it.
I had trouble with off and on slice served to deuce court, I watched videos and blah , blah, blah, tried them out and Nope still the same, then I varied my ball toss and all of them sliced good, I traced it to my ball toss,,Ball toss is everything, end of story.
Cheers
3fees
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There's no accapted definition for KICK. Topspin serve is easy to understand because (mostly) everyone is familiar w topspin (groundstrokes). In reality, i'd say the definition is reversed. Even though topspin is hit 6 to 12 (or straight up, low-to-high, etc.) for groundies, beginners aren't gonna do this and it's most likely to be 7 to 1 for topspin serves. Kick will be 6 to 12 due to better technique. Topspin is the poor technique used by beginners and kick is good fundamentals. For concreteness, if you can hit a good kick, then you can also vary the pace and flatten out for a first, adjust the spin and hit a topslice, and even hit a twist. Not to mention kick it head-high to the opponent's backhand. A 3.0 w a topspin serve will be able to do none of these things (at least not w any control).
AngryGermanGuy
New User
Is it even possible to kick serve to the receiver's head standing at the baseline without being an ATP pro or 2 meters tall? :/
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Can you find a video that shows a service motion with "6 to 12" as you define it?
I can't see how that is done with a high level service motion.
This is what I'd expect a better club player's kick serve or top spin serve to look like.
For single frame click Vimeo and full frame. Hold down the SHIFT KEY and use the ARROW KEYS.
Friedman Whip
Professional
The 24 second clip certainly appears to me to be a flat serve motion while in the other clip he is hitting a spinning serve.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
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SystemicAnalomy, do you have the type of serve?
According to Toly, the frame rate is 500 fps.
This camera viewpoint shows the racket angle at first contact, Frame #9.
Video.
Cross & Lindsay say that the kick serve will contact the ball away from the rearmost spot on the back of the ball. If the racket is tilted forward at first contact it touches above the rearmost spot and could give the ball spin axis a gyrospin component. It looks also as if the racket is rising during impact as for a kick serve (use the background light blue edge as a reference for racket height).
My current interpretation of the Cross & Lindsay book, Technical Tennis, is that a Top Spin serve - on the other hand - would have the racket more vertical and make first contact near the rearmost spot. There would be little gyrospin component.
Unfortunately, with just one serve and not knowing the type of serve you can't tell if this is a stroke error, or fault or a good kick serve.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
SystemicAnalomy, do you have the type of serve? Frame rate?
This camera viewpoint shows the racket angle at first contact, Frame #9.
Cross & Lindsay say that the kick serve will contact the ball away from the rearmost spot on the back of the ball. If the racket is tilted forward at first contact it touches above the rearmost spot and could give the ball spin axis a gyrospin component. It looks also as if the racket is rising during impact as for a kick serve (use the background light blue edge as a reference for racket height).
My current interpretation of the Cross & Lindsay book, Technical Tennis, is that a Top Spin serve - on the other hand - would have the racket more vertical and make first contact near the rearmost spot. There would be little gyrospin component.
Unfortunately, with just one serve and not knowing the type of serve you can't tell if this is a stroke error, or fault or a good kick serve.
I'd say this is definitely a topspin or kick serve. Roger pretty much stays "side on" for the entire sequence shown. He appears to let the ball drop a bit -- consistent with a topspin/kick serve. His arm movement/swingpath also suggests this type of serve. Don't know the frame rate but, perhaps, this @toly video will provide some clues for you.
EDIT: Oops. It appears that you already found (or remembered) the video in question.
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Yes.
Notice I also said to the opponent's backhand. That is the key additional information I am providing.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
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