Can't tie cross on Radical Twin Tube MP???

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by HRB, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Decided to do a Hybrid job on the Radical Twin Tube "Zebra" MP I just acquired. It was strung with a multi one piece. According to pattern I'd simply tie of cross at 5B to finish.

    Problem is 5B is a tight grommet hole and there is no way in hell 2 strings will fit through there...in fact there is no room on any of these grommets??? They are all so tight and small that none of them are accepting syn gut getting through an already occupied hole!

    I had to resort to a cheesy fix of tying a half assed knot on the outside of the frame...WTF?

    Anyone do a 2 piece on this stick, or am I sentenced to a one piece syn gut or are there different grommet sets I can try???

    I've strung many sticks and never did I find not even one grommet I could get through?
     
    #1
  2. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,616
    No experience with the Zebra MP but if you are not using the original grommet set, and chances are you aren't, you can pretty much forget about the original pattern so far as the last tie-ff is concerned. On the Radical Trisys 260 OS, I use Ti grommets and am forced to tie off the last cross in a completely different location than the pattern calls for. Any port in storm.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
    #2
  3. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    SF, CA
    Next time you decide to do a 2 piece, enlarge the tie off holes by running 2 thick strings thru the grommets. Or you can gently use an awl. Then you start to string with the enlarged holes already to have 2 strings pass thru.
     
    #3
  4. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Thanks, I just read that myself in other places and that seems to be the best solution (all the other sticks I've strung have had 2 piece jobs, so this was already done).

    Now I gotta suck it up and cut off the fresh poly mains...oh well...live and learn!!!!
     
    #4
  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    There are two tie off holes on each side of the racket where the mains end unless you have a cheap frame that was designed for one piece only and I doubt that is the case. With the strings out look for the grommets holes that are larger than the others. I would not stretch out the grommets.
     
    #5
  6. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I don't pay attention to the patterns of rackets anymore I just string them so I am not familiar with your racket but if you supply a close of picture of the head I can tell you how to string it.

    Another problem you may have is you tried to string an 18 main racket as a sixteen main racket.
     
    #6
  7. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    A couple of things...First the Head Radical Twin Tube MP is one of the most sought after classic sticks, so hardly a "cheap frame", if you find one on the "bay" for less than $50 you are lucky and they haven't been made since 1998.

    Second thing, I strung an 18 as an 18!!! I've strung well over 20 different racquets multiple times. The mains are done and tied off exactly as they should be...the issue is the cross is supposed to be tied off at the bottom in the 5 spot and NONE of the grommets down there have the space for getting through.

    The only grommets with space are the ones for the MAINS tie off and they are already occupied of course.

    The solution is widening another locations grommet...not a big deal, just wished I knew that before I stung the mains!
     
    #7
  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    HRB I think you are mistaken. I would think there is a tie off location for the bottom cross and 5B does not sound like a good spot but it's possible. If it is a classic stick it is possible you could have a knockoff. If it isn't a knockoff and you open up a grommet you stand a good chance of messing up the grommets. Being it as you have a classic stick (and you may not be able to get new grommets) how much do you think it is worth with no grommets?
     
    #8
  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Here is a picture of the head of your racket:

    [​IMG]

    The bottom cross is tied at 9B. If that location does not work on your racket maybe you have a knockoff, or quite possibly someone has replaced the grommets.

    EDIT: It is also possible someone has replaced the grommets on the pictured frame and your racket contains original grommets. Does not really matter though that much. Look at the frame carefully with no string and you should be able to see the tie off hole at the bottom. There will be two on each side.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
    #9
  10. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    HRB I think I see the problem the 8th main goes through 8B diagonally making it difficult to get the bottom cross in and to make matters worse you have two strings on the outside of the frame blocking 8B. I would tie the mains at 8B and then it should be much easier to tie off the cross at 7B. Hope that works for you.

    EDIT: Tying the mains at 8B also gives you a shorter section of non-tensioned string on the outside of the frame so you should have less drawback because the tie off is closer to the clamp. That means your outside mains will be tighter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
    #10
  11. ProStringing

    ProStringing Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    London, UK
    Hi HRB,

    The problem is that many of the iterations of the Head Radical MP are capable of accepting many different grommets.

    For example, many of the past and current generations of the Radical MP and Prestige MP grommets will fit.

    Below are a couple of pictures and explanations:

    [​IMG]

    Here is a picture of a Ti.Radical MP which has had Youtek Radical MP grommets fitted. In this instance the bottom cross tie-off is at 7B.

    [​IMG]

    This is a picture of a Radical Tour 630 which has had i.Prestige MP XL CAP grommets fitted. In this instance the bottom cross tie-off is at 12B. It is circled in red as it is only marginally larger than the surrounding single grommets.

    [​IMG]

    This is a picture of a Radical Tour 630 with its original TK55A grommets. As you can see, the bottom cross tie-off is at 5B.

    Whatever grommets are fitted to your racket, there will be an appropriate number of enlarged tie-off holes to accommodate a two piece pattern. They may only be just marginally larger than single grommets, but they will be there.

    Hope this can be of help,

    ProStringing
     
    #11
  12. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    ProSrtinging can you think of a reason to use 5B (in this situation) instead of 12B?

    [​IMG]

    12B is much closer, does not go through a wide section of the frame, was designed for the tie off, and there won't be three strings crossing on the outside of the frame.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
    #12
  13. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Certainly not a fake, you can't fake FLEX with modern crap sticks!

    Thanks Irv for your concern about ruining the grommets, but they clearly aren't the original, and I'm not as much of a collector as someone who loves hitting with Old Rads and Pro Staff Classics (my "stiff Choice" that still feels better than anything made in last 10 years). So I did widen 12B and that was the winner!

    Like Pro String said, I think someone threw some other grommet set on there, and next string job I'll look to replace with original or close to it.

    Thanks Guys!

    BTW..Pro String...if I can't find original, and hate cap grommets, what's your suggestion as next best set? Just curious.
     
    #13
  14. Centryx

    Centryx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    440
    hi I have 20 old radical twin tube and zebras i tie off the cross at 12B very easily with caps/nocaps/any set of grommets
     
    #14
  15. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Awesome....12 works fine! Just hit a few rips...feels great as always.

    Thanks for the confirmation.

    Just curious...did the CAP set up make it too head heavy, I love the look but would hate giving up whippy maneuverability. My set up currently comes in at 12.5 strung (1 OG and a rubber band)....what is static weight with Caps?
     
    #15
  16. Centryx

    Centryx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    440
    umm i wouldnt cap the zebras thats 10 more grams and it affects the balance slightly, if you can get your hands on a bumblebee or candycane id rather cap those even a iprestige mp those will be all lighter and play similar the zebra has the most power and highest sw in stock form dont need to make it even more massive. one caveat though if you have a zebra XL and cut it down to standard length then cap it and you have a beast of a racquet there. (327 g no caps strung with VS gut and wilson OG and rubber band) caps would bring it to about 337 and then some weight in the handle to get the right balance and you have a nice racquet that moves through the swing plane nicely
     
    #16
  17. ProStringing

    ProStringing Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    London, UK
    Hi Irvin.

    I agree. 12B would be preferable in this situation.

    The racket in the picture is from my collection, but is not one that I have strung - it still has the same strings as were present when I purchased it.

    I assume that whoever strung this racket looked at their Stringers Digest for the bottom cross tie-off (published as 5B), and followed that guidance.

    Grommet 5B is widened to accommodate the tie-off, however I concur that the distance from the last cross is too far, especially as 12B is widened to the same extent in my other photos above, even on the original TK55A grommets.

    The situation above is a perfect example of reading into the Stringers Digest a little too much!

    ProStringing
     
    #17
  18. ProStringing

    ProStringing Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    London, UK
    Hi HRB,

    The original TK55A grommets will be very hard to find, and probably quite brittle from long term storage.

    You can use any of the Head Radical MidPlus grommets.

    The current ones (Youtek IG Radical Mid+) are translucent.

    The previous generation ones (Youtek Radical Mid+) have a black bumper and white grommet strips.

    Most of the older versions are all black.

    I personally would use the Head MicroGEL Radical Mid+ Grommet.

    When installing these, take care with the enlarged grommets as the drill holes at 7B and 8B may be a slightly tight fit.

    Hope this can be of help,

    ProStringing
     
    #18
  19. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Perfect, thanks.
     
    #19
  20. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Strange suggestion on the "bumblebee" as I had one and flipped it back on the "bay" after finding it was sluggish and felt like a board...couldn't imagine it with caps! We are talking MP's and not OS correct? If I recall the 260trisys had a heavier strung static weight and swing weight in stock form.

    Also everything I've read on these forums regarding the "candycane" is that it is identical to my "zebra" except in cosmetics...the specs are identical?

    Now I agree with you on the I-Prestige, and in fact I'd cap anything post 2001 since that is when, IMO, the Radicals became lightweight "toys"!
     
    #20
  21. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    "toys" in stock form that is...I gotta admit that they are the perfect "canvas' for customization though!
     
    #21
  22. Centryx

    Centryx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    440
    umm ive had multiple candycanes that were light and played like a lighter stick. the bees are more consistent weight wise. and with caps are about 345 strung, ive had different experiences with zebra mps one i have is super heavy 365 strung with gut and wilson og, and 354 same setup both are non capped. but the 2 xl's i cut down with the same setup both weigh 327g strung. the zebra does feel way more powerful to me compared to all 3 btw anyone wanna buy my zebras lol!
     
    #22
  23. ten11

    ten11 Rookie

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    271
    I am 100% sure this is not the original grommet. It is a liquid metal radical grommet. I can see the bump on the grommet on 3 o'clock position.
     
    #23
  24. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Really does not matter but I don't see the bump. I was just trying to point out that there was another grommet hole for the OP to use as he stated there wasn't. It is possible also that the OP does not have the 'correct' grommets in his racket either. He just has to look. I believe he said he already found 12B works.
     
    #24
  25. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    No...12B would not have worked without widening it...but widening it and trimming it was no big deal, and it worked fine! I agree this stick may have some "rogue" grommet strip in it, but based on PS suggestions I already ordered Rad MG MP grommet sets for the next string job, so no worries. Next time even easier since I plan on going with 17g over 16g (usually go thinner on closed patterns).

    Hell I've got an old Head Graphite Pro with a few shaved down grommets on it...no issues, just gotta take your time and not be sloppy about it.
     
    #25
  26. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Luckily I've never had big fluctuations in spec's amongst my sticks of the same model, but you always can get a "bad batch".

    The good news is those Zebra's still command over $50 and up to $120 on "the Bay", post them and you'll move them quick!
     
    #26
  27. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,383
    Look again Irvin. That pic that you show has it tied at 8B not 9B as you say.(The last cross is at the # 9 spot)
    A few of mine are tied at 8B as well, as those have the i Radical grommets that fit the racquet fine with no issues, its just the tie off is at 8B, which is a good spot to tie, as it is a short span of string on outside of racquet.It has worked this way for me for a long time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
    #27
  28. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    You're right Jim (see post 10.) I can't be right all the time. LOL Don't know how 9B got in there as that is the bottom cross. Never the less the OP could have found the right spot rather than opening up 12B. Maybe 12B was the right one anyway and just a little tight as it had never been used. If I remember right it was strung one piece before.
     
    #28
  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    For those grommets your tie off locations are going to be at 7&8B not 12B. You may have a little trouble getting them in the frame if the frame is not drilled properly for the larger grommet.
     
    #29
  30. Centryx

    Centryx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    440
    wow thats weird i always tie my zebras off at 12B!
     
    #30
  31. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Well if you had Rad MG MP grommet sets in your zebra that would be weird, but you probably don't.
     
    #31
  32. Centryx

    Centryx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    440
    pretty sure i have TI rad MP grommets
     
    #32
  33. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    #33
  34. HRB

    HRB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    You're kinda contradicting yourself. You originally stated you could string any racquet without string instruction (which I agree can be done), and therefore simply choose whatever grommet to tie off crosses at. Now it seems you're "stuck" on what the instructions say?

    Looks like both me and the other guy have no issues tying off at 12B, in my case it took minor widening of the grommet...end result..6-1, 6-3 last night and a stick that feels like the extension of my arm!
     
    #34
  35. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,257
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Now you are putting words in my mouth. ProStringing said he had a racket like yours with original grommets, and that racket was tied off at 5B. I suggested tying the bottom cross at 12B which I think is the correct location in post 12 from what I could see. I was not trying to tell you where to tie off your racket because I could not see it but you used 12B. And if you use MG Radical MP grommets you should use 7&8B not 12B. Again I determined that from what I can see:

    [​IMG]

    Im sorry if I finally got around to offending you.
     
    #35
  36. PKfan1

    PKfan1 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Atlanta
    FWIW (absolutely nothing probably) I strung a NOS bumble bee and zebra a customer just found in his basement with original grommets and plastic on the grips the only place I could find to tie off was 12, just like my current prestiges w/ yt/mg caps. String went through the grommet effortlessly.

    I asked the guy if he knew how much he could get for those sticks and he couldn't have cared less. He strung them with psgd 16 @ 68; I hope they survive.
     
    #36

Share This Page