Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by luckyboy1300, Jan 6, 2009.
some heated comments by cash...
some harsh words by pat cash. a buzzer at 20 seconds isn't a bad idea.
I don't think there needs to be any drastic changes. Just enforce the rules that are already there.
I love Rafa, but he's not above the game. I don't care if he takes a few seconds extra after a long rally. But as a professional, he has to generally follow the rules set up by the ATP.
*clap clap* applauding and appreciating nadal-freaks rare stabs at humor.
don't you guys think that if they slow the courts down THIS much, so that rallies are longer and harder, that players will need a little more rest between serves. Just a thought.
He makes a mockery of the rule in grand slam and Davis Cup tennis that states there should be no more than 20 seconds between the end of one point and the ball being served for the next," he said.
"He calls for his towel, then fiddles with his underpants in that less-than-becoming manner, which has become his trademark. Finally, he steadies himself, gathers his focus and then sets out to bounce the ball about 15 times before getting it into play.
I gotta agree with Cash on this one. You could almost take a quick nap in between the points when Nadal is serving. He takes a few minutes whiping himself off with a towel and has a lunch in with the ball boy.
Cash is right, respect the rules. I constantly count more than 35 sec for Nadal when he's serving (or return), same thing for Djoko !
I think Djokovic and Nadal's Slams should be taken away and given to Tsonga and Federer respectively.
Haha, "fiddles with his underpants". Gotta love the way he words his response.
I guess he only really cares about the ATP, but to not include Sharapova in a discussion like this is a little silly. And to say that Djokovic's serve takes his opponents by surprise is just stupid. The pros have to make split second reactions all the time, and yet they're thrown off by his ball bouncing? That's just ridiculous.
Well a big reason Nadal does it you know is to get plenty of rest in between points.. He knows what he is doing.
You shouldn't be looking there anyway. You should be watching the tennis. Also Nadal goes by the flow of the match and it helps both players when Nadal takes more time.
That's stupid, they don't waste time..
Yes they do. They are by no means the only culprits, but they are Number 1 and 3 in the world respectively, so of course they are going to get noticed more than others.
Shouldn't be looking? He has the ball in his hand about to serve and where does it go? I don't have an issue with the incessant bouncing but if a tennis player on worldwide tv does a gesture thats about to mistake the ball for a suppository, it gets SLIGHTLY noticeable, don't you think?
i totally agree with cash. what nadal and djokovic do is called cheating, and i cant really understand why after so many time nobody do something to change that.
I wouldn't call it cheating, its just gamesmanship. But it certainly is detrimental from the fan's perspective, and isn't really fair on the opponent.
EDIT: Imagine how much earlier the Wimbledon final would have ended if Nadal took the same time as Roger in between serves
I'm sorry, but gamesmanship is also cheating. So, I think they should change the rules so that you can plant your racket in your opponents head when he goes over the 20 second rule or uses gamesmanship. Tennis shouldn't become basketball.
The players can play however they want, but the umps need to enforce the rules.
Nope, I dont count anytime...But everytime I count Nadal, he takes more than 35 sec...believe that !
It is detrimental to the game. 99% of the tennis-watching population hate it, and I don't believe you can possibly like it either. What do you like about it? The quality of tennis is no higher, you just won't say a bad word about your man Nadal. I'm a massive Federer fan, but when fair criticism comes along, I can accept it, as I am not delusional. That is the least substantial argument I have ever seen.
Just because it isn't enforced doesn't mean it is right to break it. Again, I'll state that I wouldn't call it cheating, but do you think its a good thing that he constantly breaks it?
cash? whose that? oh yes a guy who used to play tennis, or more accurately, a guy people used to care about. he should shut his mouth.
I'm no Djoko fan but I don't think he takes too much time at all. who cares if he bounces the ball a lot before serve. last night against Gulbis he seemed fine.
as for Nadal, I've never noticed it at all. the only people who notice are people who want Rafa/Novak to lose so they pick on anything they can find, since they can't say anything about their games.
55 speed limit isn't enforced because of evidence reasons. A radar gun has on average an estimated error of + or - 5 MPH. Thus, why most police officers will give you that 5 mph range. However, most police officers will bust you for 10.
Also, a judge will never side with a police officer for busting someone going over 1-3 mph. It's called user error. Sometimes people go slightly over for whatever reason.
Again, another epic failure on your part.
does that make speeding over 55 legal? no. it's still against the law.
How much time you like in between points and halftimes in other sports are irrelevant. This is tennis and there are rules in place. Enforced or not they are there. Your boss might let it slide if you go in to work late(assuming you have a job) but don't start bellyaching if he starts calling you on it.
exactly! if a chair umpire enforces it, CONSISTENTLY, I have no problem. but they never do. the only time I've seen them give time warnings is to Nadal when he's serving like, break point down late in a match, completely ridiculous.
don't blame the players, blame officials. If umps enforced this when Novak/Nadal were juniors and continued to do so every match up until now, like they're supposed to, it wouldn't be a problem.
This is what I can agree on. Nadal gets away with it because most umpires do not enforce it. This is the same thing that happened to Safin at the USO, where he was called out controversially at a pivotal point in the match (I believe it was a BP on his serve) for just barely crossing the hash mark (maybe by 1 mm).
Nadal should get a ticket everytime he goes over the time limit he will run out of pockets in his clamdiggers.
The players are going to do whatever they can get away with. If the ATP wants their rule abided by then it is simple. Tell the umps to enforce it, if they don't FINE THEM.
what if the buzzer goes off when the guy is in the middle of his toss / serve?
What if the player has to change racquets or wait for the crowd to settle down, or opponent to get ready? Do you still start the timer on the buzzer?
Sure he has a right to say it but he's wrong about it. That's all.
Finally someone speaks out. Good for Cash.
its quite unbelievable that the players themselves dont say anything about it...
if i were playing against nadal i would just stop waiting for serve after 20 seconds nad complain to the ref EACH AND EVERY TIME-
then maybe something would get done
Well in that case, we are seeing the same thing differently. I'm saying the umpires are doing a good job, or in other words they're not calling a violation because there is none.
On the other hand, you're saying they should be calling out these violations implying that they're incompetent. I disagree.
I believe Soderling did this in that 5 set epic over 3 days and he really got into Nadal's head. Although, I have to say, Soderling was quite rude.
I believe this has to do more with an Umpire not wanting to interrupt the flow of the game and not wanting a match outcome to be dependent on the official, rather than the players. Thus why they are very lenient.
In the last Wimbledon final, Nadal served something like 30 service games. That's at least 120 serves (of course the actual number is much more than that because Federer won quite a few points on Nadal's serve). How many time violations did Pascal Maria give him?! Pat Cash is clueless!
He did give him one in the 4th set tie break, or something like that. I don't remember exactly, but it surely ticked off Nadal.
yeah it was ridiculous, you don't start giving time violations in fourth sets, especially in tie breakers.
no, whats rude is that you are following the rules, the other guy isnt and nothing happens
in football if you delay on purpose, you get a yellow card-if you get two you are expelled from the game
for some reason tennis refs are ball-less
So Pascal Maria must be another incompetent umpire according to Federer fans. Of the 120 odd serves that Nadal delivered, Mr. Maria gave him just 1 time violation!
Tell that to the TV networks (ESPN) that have dropped playing tennis matches because they last too long.
how about you count every once in a while the amount of time nadal takes. please. granted he doesn't do it EVERY moment, but it's pretty often.
i'm saying they should be penalized for not enforcing the rules. if there were no violations, people like agassi wouldn't be complaining about the unfair, ridiculous amount of time nadal takes, would they?
Nadal's played 100s of players over the years. Why aren't the rest complaining? Food for thought.
How about this, a player may only towel off once per game, and make a maximum of 5 bounces before serving. I remember during wimbledon 2006 they actually timed Nadal on TV, and he was taking 30+ seconds. The other thing is, they give Nadal a time violation warning, but what next? Nothing, that's what. They umpires just warn him, regardless of how much he does it.
Personally I think Nadal should have been defaulted several times by now for time abuse.
Because your only chance of winning the match would be to try and get him disqualified? Don't have any regret because it wouldn't work anyway and he would still beat you fair and square...
it doesn't take everyone's voice to prove a point. rather, it just takes one person.
and fyi, it's not just nadal who does this. he's one of many.
i obviously meant : if i were a professional player facing nadal...
u really didnt grasp that?? wow!
the one who is not playing fair and square btw is nadal...
By the way, if I had to endure the vicious spin and power of Nadal, I would be immensely grateful to have a few extra seconds between each point. (Maybe that's why nobody ever complains!)
That´s cool but Cash is not an umpire and he has no voice in the ATP or the ITF so I don´t care what he says.
To me he is and if there was any serious complaints, they should be voiced by his current opponents and not by a guy like Cash who's bringing up this stale issue (have you seen how fast Nadal was serving today? Or last week?) for no good reason other than his personal spite.
He got one during the second set as well. And Mac was like... don't do this. He was serving for the set.
Give it to him the first time in the match he has a time violation. It'll set the tone.
Why does it matter to people who said this? Yes, he might be bitter and biased. It doesn't mean that what he's saying is incorrect.
what spite? because he lost 10 years ago in an exhibition?? lol
btw, nadal himself knows that he does it and had said ( i think around 2006) that he would try to improve next year...
i guess it didnt really work out
Separate names with a comma.