Cheating? Novak using Egg Shaped Pressure Chamber

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by LuvTheGame, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. LuvTheGame

    LuvTheGame Banned

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    Wall Street Journal Article - Posted: Tuesday August 30, 2011

    "Novak Djokovic's Secret:Sitting in an Egg-Shaped Pressure Chamber"

    Novak acknowledges using it (CVAC POD, pressure chamber) for the first time last week during a sponsor event in New York after he was asked about it for this Wall Street Journal article.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576532854267519860.html

    "I think it really helps - not with muscle, but more with recovery after an exhausting set," Djokovic told the Wall Street Journal this week. "It's like a spaceship. It's very interesting technology."

    The CVAC an egg-shaped capsule, according to its manufacturers - improves circulation, boosts red blood cells and removes lactic acid from the user's system among other benefits.

    Novak has been preparing for the US Open by spending time sitting in the CVAC an egg-shaped capsule. In fact, Djokovic is so convinced that the pod helps his game that during the U.S. Open, which starts Monday, he's staying (for the fourth year) with a wealthy tennis-trainer friend in Alpine, N.J. who keeps one of the machines on his property.

    Ever since last year's U.S. Open, Djokovic has been trying to improve his fitness by climbing into the rare $75,000 egg-shaped, bobsled-sized pressure chamber.

    CVAC Systems chief executive Allen Ruszkowski says the treatment seems to have many of the same effects on the body as intense exercise. He claims that the technology may be twice as effective at helping the body absorb oxygen as blood doping--a banned form of performance enhancement.

    Says former top-20 player Vince Spadea, who hit with Djokovic in Alpine last summer when he says Novak was first "experimenting" with the pod at Uehling's estate. "He was[/URL] looking to improve some of the challenges he was having--breathing capacity, allergies--and definitely something clicked there."

    These are Things that make you go hmmmmmm:???:?

    Related Articles:

    Sports Illustrated -

    "http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_wertheim/08/30/day-2/index.htmlhttp#ixzz1WZzIQa47

    The Score - "Here's how Novak Djokovic is preparing for Conor Niland"


    http://www.thescore.ie/djokovic-hoping-pod-technology-will-give-him-edge-in-niland-clash-213482-Aug2011
     
    #1
  2. celoft

    celoft Guest

    This egg is banned(illegal) in certain countries.
     
    #2
  3. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

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    Where there is smoke there is fire.

    I, along with the majority of tennis fans, have been scratching my head for most of the year wondering how a guy with all kinds of fitness and respiratory problems comes out and maintains a guns blazing season like this.

    He did SOMETHING, and now we know.

    The key moment for me was the Miami final. Hot as heck and humid, in the 3rd set. After a couple of ridiculously long rallies the cameras focus in on Nadal. He's literally crouched over with hands on his knees, and sucking for air like he's dying. Novak is simply toweling off.

    It just didn't make sense at the time.
     
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  4. Shady_Sawyer

    Shady_Sawyer Rookie

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    #4
  5. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Of coures, he's gonna say it doent' make any difference to his game....LOL.

    What is he going to say ?? ""OH yea,,,,this chamber,,,,when i am done,,,i feel like Superman......LOL,,only if that butt Picking Nadal monkey knew.....LOL"" QUOTE from Novak after one of his egg sessions.:):)
     
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  6. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    If it's good for Floyd Landis & cyclists, it's good for our Nole. It's not illegal in ITF books so tennis players of all types can use it. Athletes will push the envelope as we all know.

    However, this gov health site explains the do's and don'ts of these chambers:

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/med/hyper-eng.php

    A quote from the above article:

    Hyperbaric oxygen therapy is a well-established medical treatment. In April 2005, the Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society recognized the therapy as an effective treatment for 13 specific conditions:

    embolisms (air or gas bubbles in the bloodstream, which may travel to the brain or lungs);
    carbon monoxide poisoning (from inhaling smoke or car exhaust);
    gas gangrene;
    crush injury, Compartment Syndrome and other acute traumatic problems where blood flow is reduced or cut off (e.g., frostbite);
    decompression sickness (the bends);
    enhancement of healing for wounds such as diabetic foot ulcers;
    exceptional blood loss (anemia);
    intracranial abscess (an accumulation of pus in the brain);
    necrotizing soft tissue infections (flesh-eating disease);
    osteomyelitis (bone infection);
    delayed radiation injury (e.g., radiation burns that develop after cancer therapy);
    skin grafts and flaps that are not healing well; and
    thermal burns (e.g., from fire or electrical sources).

    However, there are risks. Before consenting to treatment, you should consider these factors:

    Pressure inside the chamber can damage the middle and inner ear, nasal sinuses, lungs and teeth in both adults and children.
    Some people experience claustrophobia inside the chamber.
    The therapy may affect your eyes, for example by promoting nearsightedness or cataract growth.
    Because hyperbaric oxygen therapy affects blood sugar levels, diabetics should have their levels checked before and after treatment.
    A high concentration of oxygen can cause serious complications in some children who have congenital heart disease.
    Too much oxygen can sometimes, although rarely, lead to overload that can cause seizures and lung problems. This is usually prevented by having the patient take breaks to breathe normal air instead of pure oxygen.
    High concentrations of oxygen at elevated pressures can pose a risk of fire.
     
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  7. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Will Serena fit into the pod?
     
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  8. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    My father is a trauma surgeon and he now works with a lot of hyperbaric treatments for wound healing.

    it is really an amazing technology.
     
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  9. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Nope, the glass will cut the top of her foot causing her to make a mess in the pod, not to mention the very HIGH RISK of a pulmonary embollism.

    Besides, she has no need for these new-fangled gadgets, her natural athletic abilities are exponentially greater than her peers.
     
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  10. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    It's been around since 1990's, it's not exactly new to the medical field.

    Oh, can you ask your esteemed father what are the benefits it could impart to a top tier athlete and let us know?

    thx!
     
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  11. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    #11
  12. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

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    It isn't a hyperbaric chamber, it is a vacuum chamber that simulates high altitudes.
     
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  13. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    i never said it was new, but he just started working with that kind of treatment recently because he had a stroke and lost some dexterity for surgical procedures.

    and he's not esteemed, just a dude that likes his job.
     
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  14. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yeah I am confused. Hyper usually means greater, so hyberbaric should mean more than 1 atm pressure. How can it then simulate high altitudes and increase RBC count? That usually happens when people acclimatize at high altitudes under low pressure.

    Need some medical person to clarify what this really is.
     
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  15. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    i can explain what it is in terms of chemistry but i don't know much about medicine

    if it is conceptually similar to altitude training

    the partial pressure of oxygen at high altitudes is lower than at sea level (though the amount of oxygen in the air is still 20-22 % or whatever it should be).

    simulated altitude training keeps the air pressure the same but limits the amount of oxygen, so the partial pressure of the oxygen is the same as it would be at higher altitudes so it essentially does the same thing.
     
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  16. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    meanwhile, for hyperbaric wound care (HBOT - hyperbaric oxygen treatment), the partial pressure of oxygen is increased to maximize the oxygen-capacity of plasma which allows wounds to heal more quickly

    pure hyperbaric (high pressure) treatment is good for embolisms and stuff like that.
     
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  17. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, I inferred that he was using it on his patients, my apologies.

    My esteemed comment remains, I view surgeons as highly knowlegeable individuals, you dad is a am esteemed dude in my eyes.

    Can you ask him to clarify the benefits of such chambers as related to healthy athletes? I would love to hear his response.
     
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  18. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Sorry...this is NOT cheating.

    Novak did what he did to keep himself from blowing up like he did in the past. This isn't blood doping, or HGH.
     
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  19. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Llyod Bridges wouldn't approve.
     
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  20. TU87

    TU87 New User

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    The problem with trying to ban something like this is you can't test for it.
     
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  21. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    He said he used it for the first time last week as quoted in the first post, what was he using before this to 'keep himself blowing up' while blowing away the field up to this point in time?
     
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  22. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    Yeah, I'll ask next time we phone eachother but I doubt his answer will be anything more substantial than something you'd find on medical forums on the net just because his experience with pressure treatment is limited to wound healing.

    The answer he will give will be based on 2nd hand knowledge and not any direct experience.
     
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  23. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Fair enough, thanks for your informative posts so far.
     
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  24. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    Ok so doing some reading on Anatomy and stuff I find that

    Hypobaric (low pressure, IE altitude training) will increase the number of red blood cells in the bloodstream improving the function of vascular tissue.

    This is well and good but does nothing to increase the healing/recovery of non-vascular tissue.

    however, ligaments, tendons, intervertebral discs benefit from hyperbaric therapy as excess oxygen will diffuse to balance the concentration gradient.

    the reason this is possible is because: hemoglobin can only carry so many oxygen molecules (i am not a biochemist so i don't know hemoglobin's binding properties)

    meanwhile free oxygen in plasma (As mentioned in a prior post) can go wherever it needs to - including non-vascular tissue.


    either way i still don't know what the "Egg" does.
     
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  25. CDestroyer

    CDestroyer Professional

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    Its not cheating because its not illegal. However it is clearly giving him a recovery advantage which is critical to a tennis pros game.

    Imo its just a temporary loophole in the rules which will probably be banned in the future but like someone said how can they test for it?
     
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  26. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    I dunno.

    Blood Doping and hypobaric training have the same benefit - increased red blood cell count.

    The test for blood doping, though, is for a the hormone etrithoprotein (sic) and not red blood cell count.

    I don't know what they would do.
     
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  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    If someone says he will always train in Colorado, can he be banned?
     
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  28. teAlexis

    teAlexis New User

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    I would think unless it gave off some chemical that improved his strength, it won't be banned. Maybe it helps his asthma.
     
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  29. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Thanks for the laugh :)
     
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  30. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    training in Colorado is actually training

    as opposed to sitting in some rich dude's "pressure thing"
     
    #30
  31. Atherton2003

    Atherton2003 Hall of Fame

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    Breaking news - Djokovic is currently stuck in this egg - they will need to crack the egg to get him out.
     
    #31
  32. billnepill

    billnepill Hall of Fame

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    when he wins USO, he will appear on the stage in The Egg to lift the trophy

    that will successfully rival the idiocy of FedererĀ“s 15 jacket and NadalĀ“s moronic WB 2008 celebrations.
     
    #32
  33. Ballbashing Grinder

    Ballbashing Grinder Rookie

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    In the article the manufacturers say the pod needs to be used 3 times a week.(You don't just do one blast and stock up on benefits for months on end) It costs 75 grand and is located in New Jersey and needs to be set up in a proper environment. So answer me honestly, do ye guys think he's putting it in his pocket and bringing it from Madrid to Rome to wherever, where he's playing practically everyday and just sticking it in the corner of his hotel room, plugging it in to thin air? These are all the questions and quotes from Djokovic on the issue when asked in two different pressers:

    To those saying "of course Djokovic would deny it", well that doesn't make any sense. He was under absolutely no obligation to give quotes to the Wall Street Journal in the first place. The very fact he did it, was because he wasn't bothered. It had nothing to do with his routines so he didn't care what publicity the egg itself got. He was just commenting on the technology and how it felt inside it. You think if this was his "secret weapon" he'd go blabbing to the WSJ about it, only to deny it a day later? He would have kept his trap shut of course. He's only getting browned off now, because everyone's proclaiming he's using it when he was only giving innocent comments on the technology yada, yada. Like I say, he wouldn't have gone near a public comment in the first place if he was actually using that thing and it was crucial to his success.

    @tennischemist: On the issue anyway, as far as I am aware blood doping and hypobaric training do not give the same effect. This is one of the main reasons these things aren't banned. They are no better than altitude training unlike the EPO injections...

    http://altitudetraining.com/main/sports/research/PracticalApproachBurke
    (If you read the rest of the link, when they said "easier and cheaper" they were referring to finding mountains of an appropriate altitude and the logistics of getting there btw)

    Beyond the natural body limits is what causes the grave side effects, such as blood thickening, clots, heart attacks, strokes. And I presume, increasing the red blood cell count beyond natural limits, would also lead to a greater enhanced performance, in the short term at least, before any possible side effects start occurring. There are no such health warnings with these hypobaric chambers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011
    #33
  34. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    Nah. Djokovic and Nadal are just stacking Jacked, SuperPump Max, Animal Rage, and NO-Xplode. Throw in a little blood spinning and a egg chamber and u got yourself a machine that does not tire and can play 5 set marathons one after another with no signs of fatigue.
     
    #34
  35. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    Oxygen is a banned substance now?
     
    #35
  36. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    is there really a supplement called "Animal Rage"?

    and nice post, Grinder
     
    #36
  37. tennischemist

    tennischemist Rookie

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    However - Hypobaric training and Blood Doping DO have the same goal

    Hypobaric training, though is TRAINING.. that's the key.

    Blood doping is just shooting up some hormone.
     
    #37
  38. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    A wise man once said

    "haters gonna hate"

    And to the OP
















    [​IMG]
     
    #38
  39. CocaCola

    CocaCola Professional

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    Please ban this egg threads ffs.
     
    #39
  40. Novak123

    Novak123 Banned

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    Yet another pathetic excuse for King haters to derail him. Sorry, try again.
     
    #40
  41. whomad15

    whomad15 Semi-Pro

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    Michael Jackson?
    He slept in a hyper-baric chamber, and his body had so many legal drugs in it that it would have killed anyone else years before.
     
    #41
  42. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    [​IMG]
     
    #42
  43. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    She too:
    --
    Q. Have you tried the egg that Novak is using or has used?

    CHRISTINA McHALE: Yeah, I've tried it before.

    Q. Did you think it helped?

    CHRISTINA McHALE: I don't think I did it enough to be able to say.

    Q. What was it like?

    CHRISTINA McHALE: Uhm, it's different. But, yeah, I didn't do it enough to be able to comment on it.

    http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2011-08-31/201108311314826238114.html
    --
     
    #43
  44. Outbeyond

    Outbeyond Legend

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    LOL!!! This egg has legs.:)
     
    #44
  45. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Is it portable? Can you take it everywhere you play? That would be very convenient :)
    Honestly, if the only thing that it took to become #1 was to sit in an egg once in a while, then a lot of players would do it, no? If it's legal, then pretty stupid of them NOT to do it especially if the results were that spectacular (can you feel my skepticism?)
     
    #45
  46. Lemoned

    Lemoned Rookie

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    http://blogs.tennis.com/thewrap/2011/08/egg-role.html

    Uehling (the NJ guy), who worked with Djokovic at the Open last year and coached Christina McHale before she left to train with the USTA last season

    Sadly it isn't. :cry:

    Q. The story said you were using it last couple of days.
    NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Well, it would be great if that machine had wings so it can fly wherever I am playing.

    Q. Where is the machine?
    NOVAK DJOKOVIC: It's in New Jersey, one of the sports complexes there.
     
    #46
  47. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    In principle there is no difference between this and e.g. EPO, except EPO costs a hell of a lot less, is more popular and is thus banned.
     
    #47
  48. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Why do you use several commas in a row when periods are obviously more appropriate?
     
    #48
  49. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    I think it's funny that they're considering banning a machine that simply offers the body more oxygen. Maybe they should ban excessive water drinking too, as well as post-match masturbation.
     
    #49
  50. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    That is not what this machine does. It boosts red blood cells. Not the same thing at all.
     
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