Chinks in the armor?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by alienhamster, Jul 4, 2004.

  1. alienhamster

    alienhamster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,658
    People keep posting that "Federer was off his game today." While I mostly agree with this statement, I think we should try to pick it apart a bit more. *Why* was he off his game? What was Roddick doing to him that threw him off?

    One thing I noticed that Roddick executed very well early on was flattening out forehands (and, less effectively, backhands) with extreme pace to Fed's backhand. It almost seemed like if Fed didn't have enough time to line up his backhand, he had major trouble getting the ball deep or even in the court at all. The grass actually helped Andy execute this since the ball scooted through so quickly. Hewitt tried this on Federer, but he just didn't have enough firepower to really throw Federer off his rhythm.

    As good as Fed is, I don't think any player is invulnerable. Roddick is one of the only players I've seen start to find something like a "weakness" in Fed's game.

    Any other observations? I'm really curious to know if there's some consistent way to attack Federer.
     
    #1
  2. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    14,058
    My observation is not a technical one, but a #1 one. Two years ago the threads on all message boards were "Hewitt is invincible, no one will ever beat him." and he was #1 for 75 weeks (don't quibble guys, this is close LOL) . In sports, "plus ca change, plus la meme chose." (This are always change, but always remain the same.) ((French)) The interest should lie in who's the next #1 instead of worrying about Federer.
     
    #2
  3. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,874
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Pound Cat - Not that I'm prescient or anything, but "two years ago" I was saying that Hewitt is a "caretaker" #1; i.e., as soon as someone with the weapons AND the focus comes along, he's toast. So don't make generalizations-I wasn't the only one saying this, but we were a minority at the time...
     
    #3
  4. Nadal2

    Nadal2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Messages:
    149
    Yeah, i would say that caretaker is a good word to describe what Hewitt was. One generation was coming to a close and the next hadn't quite come to be at their best.
    The only problem with what Roddick did to get at Federer is that Roddick can generate a lot more pace than most players on tour. Yeah, everyone seems to say "go to his backhand and you will win some points" but they should be saying "go to his backhand and hope it's not working".
    1 problem is that Federer isn't great hitting high balls. This was part of how Roddick beat him for the only time last summer in Canada. He kept kicking the ball up to Fed's backhand.
    Anyways, for now it seems that the best hope is for someone who forces Federer to float back a lot of returns and is good at the net. If you get a high first serve percentage and go for big second serves, you will double fault a lot, but you will win a lot when you get it in. I think that Roddick on hard courts can beat Federer now, even with Fed playing like he did today.
     
    #4
  5. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    14,058
    "There is always someone to carry the torch." Please don't don't use Timbo as an example. LOL
     
    #5
  6. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,279
    i think there was some "chinks" put in the armor today.

    At least Andy can walk away knowing what it takes to beat Fed. Blasting it to Fed's backhand definitely worked. Roddick also was returning well, and yes, he didn't break Fed when he needed to, but he still broke him like 4 times, and had a crazy amount of break point chances.

    Roddick is heading in the right direction, and he's gonna eventually tag Federer a few times and maybe steal a Slam or two from him.
     
    #6
  7. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,199
    Fed has conveniently answered that question for us.

    From June 2004 Inside Tennis:

    "Who [Roger] Federer predicts will succeed him as No. 1 within three years: 17-year-old Spaniard Rafael Nadal."


    Suits me just fine. :wink:
     
    #7
  8. Mikael

    Mikael Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,080
    Ever since I saw my man Enqvist dismantle Federer's game at Indian Wells a couple years ago, I've known Federer is definitely not invincible... As has been said, hitting hard and flat to Federer's backhand works. Basically if you're a powerhitter and come out with all your guns firing, then you have a good chance...
     
    #8
  9. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,366
    Of course chinks in the armor exist, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that no player out there can take advantage of it for more than one set.
     
    #9
  10. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,199
    On grass maybe. But he has lost 4 matches this year. An awesome record, to be sure. But a few people got more than one set off him. So it can be done.
     
    #10
  11. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,390
    I believe one or two of those four defeats happened on clay so that gives his rivals slightly less hope.

    I still can't believe no one has pointed out something really, really, really obvious about the Federer-Roddick match and it's not the was he 'on' or 'off' debate.
     
    #11
  12. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,482
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Federer plays with a PS 85.
     
    #12
  13. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    46,007
    I believe it's actually a PS 6.0 90 Original (custom made by Wilson for Federer). :shock:
     
    #13
  14. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,482
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    PS 85!
     
    #14
  15. federer2

    federer2 New User

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    63
    What is it, pls?
     
    #15
  16. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    268
    Well, one thing I've pointed out is that Roger had a bad cold and that was part of the reason or maybe all of the reason that he wasn't himself.

    What else did you notice besides how much more handsome Roger is than Roddick? I wonder why Roddick thinks it's good to wear the backwards cap during a Wimbledon awards ceremony????
     
    #16
  17. beltsman

    beltsman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,715
    Location:
    Strong era
    Roger was a bit off on his timetable, but correct overall!
     
    phnx90 likes this.
    #17
  18. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,965
    Location:
    The past
    The only way to explain this is that Federer is a mediocre journeyman who travelled to the present from the future.

    Actually this thread is pretty amazingly spot on, at least with regards to Nadal and how he'd end up toppling Federer. Roddick, not so much.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
    Firstservingman likes this.
    #18
  19. Firstservingman

    Firstservingman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,239
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    He wouldn't be Top 50 in today's strong field.
     
    The Fedfather and KineticChain like this.
    #19
  20. KineticChain

    KineticChain Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,536
    what level would you say fed is in todays era? how many games would a modern 4.5 get against him? i think a strong 5.5 would beat him. thats just how good todays players are
     
    #20
  21. Firstservingman

    Firstservingman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,239
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    All I know for certain is that some posters on here would be able to take him to tiebreaks, or at least that's what I've been lead to believe.
     
    The Fedfather and beltsman like this.
    #21
  22. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,892
    Damn.
     
    #22
  23. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    35,728
    Location:
    The Nearest Taco Stand
    Yeah that's insane. That means he must have felt some mega-power in that Miami match in 04.
     
    TheFifthSet likes this.
    #23
  24. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    8,004
    Location:
    Sweden
    You can't say that word, it's racist.
     
    #24
  25. Kalin

    Kalin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,534
    The proper would be 'Asian-Americans in the Armor'? 'People of Asian Persuasion in the Armor'?
     
    #25
  26. PrinceMoron

    PrinceMoron Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,684
    #26
  27. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    8,004
    Location:
    Sweden
    Joke just sailed over your head like Halley's comet...
     
    #27
  28. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,965
    Location:
    The past
    It's like that Futurama episode where it was revealed that Leonardo da Vinci is actually from the alien planet of Vinci, and that he--as the stupidest resident there--left the planet to live as a genius on Earth haha.
     
    Firstservingman likes this.
    #28
  29. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,892
    I think the writing was on the wall for Nadal to become an awesome player, dude was a prodigy :eek:

    The Miami match might have influenced Federer's opinion, although I don't think even he could have foreseen what eventually was to come. Nonetheless, eerie prediction by Psychicerer :cool:
     
    #29
  30. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    14,098
    Location:
    The Shire
    Strong era. ;)
     
    #30

Share This Page