Clay Court GOAT

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by timnz, May 18, 2009.

  1. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sergi was a great player, and considerably underrated. He was very streaky as a player though, which is why he hated playing Thomas Muster, someone who would concentrate on virtually every point. I absolutely loved their matches together when Muster would nearly always find a way to win, even when he was once a set and 2 breaks down (1995 Stuttgart Outdoor). Sergi's best moment was winning his first French Open in 1993 against Jim Courier, a result few expected.
     
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  2. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    It's true, but it was before the French, and Vilas didn't play good at this time (I think he lost against Franulovic in the first round in Rome). It's during and after the French he was incredible and won 53 matches consecutively on clay.
     
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  3. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Borg is obviously better in terms of achievement plus there was the factor of what if Borg had no reited at 25. He might have had 8-10 french open titles. Nadal won 4 so far with many master series titles but there is the case right now he might not win as many as people would have believed in 2008.
     
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  4. David_86

    David_86 Rookie

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    When you look at Vilas' FO record, you can either see him as an underachiever or overrated. For someone who is supposed to be the 2nd best clay player of his generation...

    1975 - Lost to Borg
    1976 - Lost to Solomon
    1977 - Won
    1978 - Lost to Borg
    1979 - Lost to Pecci
    1980 - Lost to Solomon
    1981 - Lost to Noah
    1982 - Lost to Wilander

    He never came close to Borg.
     
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  5. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Mustard, Muster was definitely tough there for a while, especially on Clay. Being a lefty was also an advantage he had. He was strong and could seemingly go forever on clay.

    What exactly happened to him and the failed drug test? I'm asking, because I don't recall the exact details, but wasn't it a "blood doping" situation? Was there some possible innocent explanation at all, or is the consensus now that he gained a significant competitive advantage unfairly? Perhaps there were lots of players at that time doing the same thing in hindsight, given what we know now in sports such as Baseball and even Tennis. Thanks in advance.
     
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  6. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Borg didn't get to the finals, because Vilas was playing mickey mouse events.

    Borg was undefeated on red clay in 1977 and owned Vilas in the two events they played together on the surface.

    As for Vilas's French Open performance - it is most definitely not better than Borg's flawless play at the 1980 French Open. Also worth noting is that the draws were missing some great players, including Borg.
     
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  7. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Playing mickey mouse events.
     
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  8. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Absurd. Borg's red clay record was a spotless 22-0 that year. Vilas was definitely the second best player that year on clay and took advantage of Borg's absence from RG due to WTT commitments.
     
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  9. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Who are you talking about here? Muster never failed a drugs test. Boris Becker insinuated that Thomas was taking drugs after the 1995 Monte Carlo final because he couldn't believe Muster's fitness in coming back to beat Becker from 2 sets down after spending the previous night on a drip at the hospital because of a lack of sugar in Thomas' bloodstream during the semi final against Andrea Gaudenzi. But when you run 10 miles a day like Thomas did, playing tennis matches is easy by comparison. When Thomas heard about Boris' accusations, he requested an immediate drug test, and it came back negative.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
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  10. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Hypotheticals count for nothing I'm afraid, only results, and Vilas' 1977 results were clearly better than Borg's.
     
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  11. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    There is nothing hypothetical about Borg's better results than those of Vilas in 1977. I am not sure where you see better results by Vilas.

    A hypothetical could be a "would be/could be" argument. For example, if Borg missed several months of playing time and I argued that he would have beaten Vilas had he been healthy and therefore was better, then I would be presenting a fallacious argument.

    There is no such hypothetical here. Borg did play and did play better.

    The fallacy here is on the side of those who argue for Vilas. Actually there are two fallacies:

    a) the fallacious value allotted for Vilas's mickey mouse tourney results - such as his wholly irrelevant clay court streak, obtained by playing mostly weak opponents

    b) the fallacious value allotted to the French open, which had many important players missing, including Borg

    The French Open was not consistently attended in the 1970s. It was not in and of itself an automatic indicator of clay court superiority. The same thing happened in the early 1970s, when Jan Kodes won two titles at Roland Garros, while the far superior Laver and Rosewall were off playing WTT. However, Laver and Rosewall had other red clay results that supported their superiority over Kodes.

    So, there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
    #61
  12. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    A 53 match clay-court winning streak, which lasted until Nadal beat it in 2006. This streak also included 2 clay-court grand slam victories at the French Open and the US Open. It's plain to see who had the best results in 1977.
     
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  13. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    See above.

    I believe that Vilas had, by default, better green clay results than Borg in 1977 due to Borg's absence in the summer when most of the har-tru events were played.

    However Borg clearly had better red clay results, meaning that there is evidence that he was better on red clay than Vilas.

    Overall, Borg was far superior than Vilas due to his excellence on grass and carpet. Surfaces that Vilas avoided - when he didn't, he performed far worse on them than Borg.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
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  14. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    To put it in perspective, when Vilas and Borg finally met in the 1978 French Open Borg won 6-1 6-1 6-3. Vilas actually played very well. In that tournament Borg won 127 games and lost only 32 for an astonishing and superhuman games won percentage of 79.87 percentage which I think may be the best of any era but clearly the best of the Open Era.

    Borg may very well have had the most dominant year of the Open Era in 1978 with a Games Won Percentage for the year of 66.18%.

    In 1977 Borg won three matches and lost none to Vilas. Borg was clearly a better clay court player than Vilas in 1977 and would have been heavily favored had they met in the French Open.
     
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  15. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You can't blame Vilas for showing up at the 1977 French Open and winning the tournament in Borg's absence. You've got to blame Borg for not playing in the French Open. You've got to give Vilas the benefit of the doubt, not Borg.

    Tournament results should be the only thing that matters as far as rankings are concerned, not head-to-heads. It doesn't matter if Vilas won a load of what would be considered 250 tournaments today, he still won 2 grand slams that year and dominated on clay throughout the second half of the season. Honestly, Borg fans, stick to 1978-1981 when your guy won loads, 1977 was clearly Vilas' year.
     
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  16. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    I don't think Vilas should be blamed either. But if a question is posed: "who was the better player on red clay that year?" the answer requires analyzing all the variables.

    If the question is "what are some of the most dominant performances at the French open" then Vilas's result should not come with a grain of salt either. Here we go strictly on the results.

    However a question like "what are some of the most impressive performances at the French open", then things get a bit more ambiguous and perhaps here we can take into account that players like Borg or Orantes did not attend the event.

    A more useful and interesting question to me would be "what was the most dominant player on (insert surface) at a particular point in time?". This question unburdens us from referring to a grand slam event as the sole variable for consideration. We do this now because of the standardization of the tour. But can we get away with the same knowing what we know about the 70s? I don't think so.

    We can ask very different questions and get very different answers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
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  17. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    There's no doubt Vilas was a great clay court player and he was excellent in 1977 but in keeping with this thread which is asking who is the clay court goat, "If you had your life on the line and you had to pick one player to win between Borg and Vilas and they played at Roland Garros in 1977 in the French Open Final, who would you bet on?" You have to pick Borg unless you have a death wish.

    Did Vilas have a great clay season in 1977? My answer is yes. Was he the best clay court player in 1977? My answer is no. Clearly Borg was.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
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  18. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Whoever you'd bet your life on in a hypothetical 1977 French Open final between Vilas and Borg, you can't base who had the better year on that, you have to go by what actually happened in terms of tournament results throughout the year.

    Not in terms of results. Vilas won 2 clay court grand slams and had an awesome run on clay in the second half of the year. Whether Borg could have beaten Vilas at the French Open if he had showed up or if he could have beaten Vilas at the US Open if he hadn't have gotten injured is all hypothetical speculation.
     
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  19. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Again I'm not writing about results in this case. You disagreeing about results and that's fine but I'm writing that in my opinion Borg was the superior clay court player to Vilas in 1977. In tournament results for the year Borg won 13 of 20 tournaments plus Wimbledon and he was unbeaten against Vilas with a 3-0 record.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
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  20. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I thought Borg won 11 titles in 1977?

    1. Memphis
    2. Nice
    3. WCT Monte Carlo
    4. Denver
    5. Wimbledon
    6. Boca Raton
    7. Madrid
    8. Barcelona
    9. Basel
    10. Cologne
    11. Wembley

    While Vilas won 16:

    1. Springfield
    2. Buenos Aires (Apr)
    3. Virginia Beach
    4. French Open
    5. Kitzbuhel
    6. Washington DC
    7. Louisville
    8. South Orange
    9. Columbus
    10. US Open
    11. Paris Outdoor
    12. Tehran
    13. Bogota
    14. Santiago
    15. Buenos Aires (Nov)
    16. WCT Johannesburg

    And wasn't it 2-0 to Borg in the head-to-head from 1977?

    Bjorn Borg def. Guillermo Vilas (6-4, 1-6, 6-2, 6-0) in the final of Nice
    Bjorn Borg def. Guillermo Vilas (6-2, 6-3) in the semi final of WCT Monte Carlo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
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  21. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    It was not on clay, but Borg did also beat Vilas at the Masters in NYC on carpet: 6-3, 6-3.
     
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  22. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    I have Borg winning Hilton Head in 1977 as well, which makes for 12 titles. Not sure what the 13th is, but this is not the first time I've heard of 13.
     
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  23. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    That was from memory and I could be wrong but I got that from the Collins book.
     
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  24. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Just note, Boca Raton was Borg's first victory of the year, in January (the ATP told me it will be updated when their historical database gets updated).

    Borg's got 13 titles in Bud Collins' book, though Bud doesn't say what the extra 2 titles are. Vilas has 16 titles at the ATP and ITF sites, though Bud gives him 17 with Rye, NY which he says was not officially recognized by the ATP.
     
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  25. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Thanks Krosero for confirming the amount of the titles that I recalled reading in the Collins book.
     
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  26. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    You're totally right !!
     
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  27. David_86

    David_86 Rookie

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    Maybe Borg fans should just give up trying to convince Vilas fans that their man had better results in 1977. At least they can go home and watch Borg humiliate Vilas in some very prestigious clay-court tournaments.
     
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  28. OnceWas

    OnceWas Rookie

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    Your top 3 are the top 3. Maybe not in that order. But, maybe so.
     
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  29. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    Lets stay on point... the title of the thread is "Clay Court Goat", not red clay not green clay not Wimbledon results. Just simply who is the Clay Court Goat...

    I believe Vilas in 77' is only second to Nadal in 06'?

    I also don't think you can base head-to-head meetings over results over a field. If that is the case... then Panatta is a much better player than Borg... I believe he has a 2-0 record over Borg at the French Open.

    All threads here are to solicit opinions... you have provided yours... Mustard his... and I mine. At the end of the day I doubt any of us are going to change our decisions so why don't we just move on.
     
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  30. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    The thread is clay court GOAT, not best year on clay. Borg defeated Panatta most of the time on clay and yes he did defeat Panatta at the French. Panatta never defeated Borg again after Borg made an leap in his tennis level in 1977.

    Why don't you check out Borg's clay court record in 1978? He wasn't just defeating people, he was destroying them. Even Panatta, who Borg defeated in five sets at the Italian wasn't really close to Borg if the match was fairly judged. The line calls were so bias in favor of Panatta, the crowd threw objects at Borg and yet Borg still prevailed in five sets. That is possibly the greatest year on clay ever.

    Like I wrote before Borg lost only 32 games in seven matches at the French in 1978. That's domination.

    Yet you can't base the clay court GOAT on that year alone despite the fact Borg was invincible that year. The thread is the greatest clay court GOAT and I think that means career.

    Overall in his career Borg has super credentials to be the clay court GOAT.
     
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  31. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Rafael Nadal is 139-4 on clay since the start of 2005 Monte Carlo. That's domination over a 4 year period.

    I still maintain that the Muster of 1995 is the best. He would find a way to win virtually any clay-court match in this period, no matter how much he was down. He lost a handful, but won the vast majority brilliantly with an insane schedule. 1995 Muster = Clay GOAT.
     
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  32. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    - my post was in response to another post, not simply in response to the thread

    - h2h meetings was never the only point, which is why Panatta is an inappropriate example .. Borg did not only own Vilas, but the clay court events he played altogether

    - the point of discussions is not to present opinions, but to engage in debates - meaning making convincing, logical arguments.
     
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  33. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Borg was destroying people on clay even in 1977. Vilas supporters mainly argue for his results by valuing the quantity of his results over Borg's quality.

    Yes, Vilas did win a lot of events on clay that year, but he also played a crapload of events on the surface. Largely because he shunned events on other surfaces - something that Borg never did. Vilas should not be rewarded for this.

    Muster is a similar case. He won something in the neighbourhood of 11-12 events on clay in 1995. But he carefully avoided events on other surfaces and piled up a lot of insignificant titles (though I do give Muster credit for at least being the best player on clay in his best year, something not true for Vilas).

    People who argue for Vilas and Muster simply use poor logic.

    Regardless, you are correct that the thread was not originally about the best year on clay, but the best overall on clay. But I think the thread digressed because there is no argument. Borg is the clearcut best ever on clay at least until or if Nadal returns to greatness next spring. The "best year" argument is a desperate attempt by certain fans of other players to turn the topic in their favour.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2009
    #83
  34. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    There is no such thing as a GOAT.

    I mean, Federer would probably beat Borg on clay the vast majority of times, but he's not in the same category as Borg in terms of accomplishments on clay.

    There are too many factors to consider in debates like this. Eras are not created equal (despite what the TW Historians will tell you--oh oops, they'll tell you that Laver's era was superior), but it's truly impossible to compare eras. It's all a matter of personal opinion--stats are worthless in many instances.

    In my opinion, winning one Wimbledon today is a much greater accomplishment than Renshaw's streak at Wimbledon, but others may disagree.

    Why even debate all this GOAT bs?

    Let's just stop comparing players over vast periods of time. If you want to talk about Borg, talk about him within the context of the players he competed against. If you want to talk about Nadal, talk about him in the same context.
     
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  35. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Have not grown tired of the noise of crickets yet?
     
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  36. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Chopin, I must disagree. I don't think Federer would probably beat Borg more often than not on clay. Borg would attack his backhand mercilessly and by about the 3rd set, Federer would be sucking wind, hoping for cooler temperatures at RG. We've seen that play out a few times versus Nadal already.
     
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  37. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    When you look at 1978, you realize Borg also had perhaps the best year on clay also and he very well may have had the best career on clay.
     
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  38. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    Borg

    I would wholeheartedly agree w/you...
     
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  39. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Very good Jrepac. When Borg was playing on Clay, though he always had that "Ice Borg" face going, you got the sense that he didn't think anyone should beat him on the surface, especially on red clay. It was possible, if perhaps he was somewhat off for some reason, and playing on a fast rublico surface (green clay at the US Open), but beating him at the French would not be easy to accomplish.

    Imagine a series of ten 5 set matches versus him on red clay, say over 20 days. That would NOT be fun for anyone. Nadal,Lendl, and Muster have been the only players I've seen that could sustain such a high level of play for say 4-5 hours on that surface. It requires superhuman stamina, court coverage, and grit. I'll include Vilas in that short list as well, with the others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2009
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  40. David_86

    David_86 Rookie

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    There's a nice quote from Hans Gildemeister, a very talented clay-court player in his day, after he was beaten in straight sets by Borg at the French Open.

    "I've never played so well, but I've never felt so tired and I've never had to run so much, and I've played Vilas over 5 sets."
     
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  41. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    This was after the quarterfinals of the 1979 FO: 6-4, 6-1, 7-5, for Borg . . . of course.
     
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  42. the little dasher

    the little dasher New User

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    How many French opens has Borg won?

    How many has Vilas one?

    There's your answer. (As if you reallt doubted it).

    And Muster a great on clay?

    Get off the grass.
     
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  43. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    How could one grow tired of the sound of crickets? They're sublime.
     
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  44. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    As much of a fan I am of Vilas, of course I know Borg was better than him on clay. Vilas played very well in the 1978 French Open final and was completely outplayed. What I'm saying is that Vilas was the best player for the year 1977.

    Thomas won 40 clay court titles in his career and went 111-5 on clay in a two year period (1995-1996). People have definitely forgotten how good Thomas was in these years.
     
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  45. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Mustard, I agree with you T. Muster was great on clay, during his peak. I was amazed at his tenacity and consistency. That hard left handed forehand was very difficult to contend with. I remember reading that just like Borg/Vilas/Nadal, he would train like crazy (no coincidence that the great clay courters are like that). He also showed great resiliency when he came back after that serious car accident. That showed a lot of heart, no doubt and we should all admire him for that toughness.
     
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  46. the little dasher

    the little dasher New User

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    Fair enough. I'd be happy enough with the 1st point though I see that Borg and Vilas played once on clay in '77 with Borg the winner. Skinny evidence I agree but I'd still favour Borg over Vilas even in 77 in a direct match up. Vilas' overall record was probably superior in that year so its take your pick I guess.

    I didn't know that about Muster though. Always thought him over rated but those stats are impressive. Thanks for the heads up on him.
     
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  47. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Here is the full list of Thomas Muster's clay-court matches in those two years.

    Thomas Muster clay-court results in 1995
    1995 Mexico City
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Nicolas Pereira (6-2, 6-1)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Leonardo Lavalle (6-4, 6-1)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Oscar Martinez (7-6, 6-1)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Francisco Clavet (7-6, 1-6, 6-2)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Fernando Meligeni (7-6, 7-5)

    1995 Estoril
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Oscar Martinez (6-4, 6-1)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Franco Davin (7-5, 6-1)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Javier Sanchez (4-6, 7-6, 6-4)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Emilio Sanchez (6-2, 6-4)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Albert Costa (6-4, 6-2)

    1995 Barcelona
    Round of 64: Thomas Muster def. Jordi Burillo (4-6, 7-6, 6-2)
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Andrei Cherkasov (6-3, 6-2)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Javier Sanchez (7-6, 6-4)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Carlos Costa (6-3, 3-6, 7-5)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-3, 6-3)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Magnus Larsson (6-2, 6-1, 6-4)

    1995 Monte Carlo Masters
    Round of 64: Thomas Muster def. Guy Forget (6-2, 6-2)
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Bernd Karbacher (6-2, 6-2)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Alberto Berasategui (7-6, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. David Wheaton (6-4, 6-4)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Andrea Gaudenzi (6-3, 7-6)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Boris Becker (4-6, 5-7, 6-1, 7-6, 6-0)

    1995 Rome Masters
    Round of 64: Thomas Muster def. Paul Haarhuis (6-4, 6-4)
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Jan Siemerink (3-6, 6-4, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Bohdan Ulihrach (6-2, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (6-3, 6-2)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Wayne Ferreira (3-6, 6-1, 6-3)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Sergi Bruguera (3-6, 7-6, 6-2, 6-3)

    1995 French Open
    Round of 128: Thomas Muster def. Gerard Solves (3-6, 6-4, 6-2, 6-1)
    Round of 64: Thomas Muster def. Cedric Pioline (6-1, 6-3, 6-3)
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Carlos Costa (6-3, 7-5, 6-2)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Andrei Medvedev (6-3, 6-3, 6-0)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Albert Costa (6-2, 3-6, 6-7, 7-5, 6-2)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 6-0, 6-4)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-2, 6-4)

    1995 St. Poelten
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Filip Dewulf (4-6, 7-6, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Alex Lopez Moron (6-2, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Rodolphe Gilbert (6-2, 6-2)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Stefano Pescosolido (6-0, 3-6, 6-4)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Bohdan Ulihrach (6-3, 3-6, 6-1)

    1995 Gstaad
    Round of 32: Alex Corretja def. Thomas Muster (7-5, 6-1)

    1995 Stuttgart Outdoor
    Round of 64: BYE
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Marcelo Rios (6-2, 6-4)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Bernd Karbacher (6-4, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Tomas Carbonell (6-2, 6-0)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Sergi Bruguera (6-7, 7-6, 6-2)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Jan Apell (6-2, 6-2)

    1995 Amsterdam
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Martin Sinner (6-2, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Marcelo Filippini def. Thomas Muster (Walkover)

    1995 Kitzbuhel
    Round of 64: BYE
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Steve Campbell (6-3, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Frederik Fetterlein (6-3, 6-3)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Sandor Noszaly (7-6, 6-3)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Gilbert Schaller (6-2, 6-7, 6-3)
    Final: Albert Costa def. Thomas Muster (4-6, 6-4, 7-6, 2-6, 6-4)

    1995 San Marino
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Marcelo Filippini (6-4, 6-2)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Felix Mantilla (6-3, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Adrian Voinea (7-6, 2-6, 6-4)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Stefano Pescosolido (6-4, 6-2)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Andrea Gaudenzi (6-2, 6-0)

    1995 Umag
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Roberto Carretero (6-2, 3-0 ret.)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Alejo Mancisidor (6-3, 6-1)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Jordi Arrese (6-1, 6-3)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Francisco Clavet (7-5, 5-7, 7-6)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Carlos Costa (3-6, 7-6, 6-4)

    1995 Bucharest
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Tomas Carbonell (6-4, 6-4)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Cedric Pioline (7-5, 6-3)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Arnaud Boetsch (6-4, 6-4)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Sandor Noszaly (6-2, 6-2)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Gilbert Schaller (6-3, 6-4)

    Clay-court win-loss record for 1995: 65-2

    Thomas Muster clay-court results in 1996
    1996 Mexico City
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Juan Albert Viloca-Puig (6-4, 6-4)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Luis Lobo (7-6, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Alejandro Hernandez (6-4, 6-4)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Francisco Clavet (6-3, 2-6, 6-1)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Jiri Novak (7-6, 6-2)

    1996 Estoril
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. David Rikl (6-1, 7-5)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Carlos Moya (6-4, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Francisco Clavet (6-4, 6-2)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Alex Corretja (6-7, 6-4, 6-0)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Andrea Gaudenzi (7-6, 6-4)

    1996 Barcelona
    Round of 64: BYE
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Alex Corretja (6-1, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Bohdan Ulihrach (6-4, 7-5)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Francisco Roig (6-1, 6-1)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Carlos Moya (4-6, 6-2, 6-4)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Marcelo Rios (6-3, 4-6, 6-4, 6-1)

    1996 Monte Carlo Masters
    Round of 64: BYE
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Tomas Carbonell (7-5, 6-4)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Carlos Moya (6-2, 7-6)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Sjeng Schalken (5-7, 6-1, 6-4)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Cedric Pioline (6-3, 6-3)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Albert Costa (6-3, 5-7, 4-6, 6-3, 6-2)

    1996 Munich
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Stefano Pescosolido (6-1, 6-1)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Hendrik Dreekmann (4-6, 6-2, 7-5)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Mark Philippoussis (6-3, 0-6, 6-2)
    Semi Final: Carlos Moya def. Thomas Muster (6-3, 6-3)

    1996 Rome Masters
    Round of 64: Thomas Muster def. Herbert Wiltschnig (6-3, 6-0)
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Petr Korda (6-2, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Todd Martin (1-6, 6-4, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Marcelo Rios (6-3, 6-2)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Albert Costa (6-3, 3-6, 6-4)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Richard Krajicek (6-2, 6-4, 3-6, 6-3)

    1996 St. Poelten
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Nasser-Ghanim Al-Khulaifi (6-0, 6-1)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Marc-Kevin Goellner (6-7, 6-4, 7-6)
    Quarter Final: Andrea Gaudenzi def. Thomas Muster (Walkover)

    1996 French Open
    Round of 128: Thomas Muster def. Frederik Fetterlein (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
    Round of 64: Thomas Muster def. Gerard Solves (6-1, 6-3, 6-0)
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Adrian Voinea (6-2, 5-2 ret.)
    Round of 16: Michael Stich def. Thomas Muster (4-6, 6-4, 6-1, 7-6)

    1996 Stuttgart Outdoor
    Round of 64: BYE
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Marcos Aurelio Gorriz (7-6, 7-6)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Galo Blanco (6-3, 6-0)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Francisco Clavet (6-2, 6-4)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Alberto Berasategui (6-3, 6-3)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-2, 6-2, 6-4)

    1996 Kitzbuhel
    Round of 64: BYE
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Emilio Sanchez (6-3, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Mariano Zabaleta (6-1, 6-2)
    Quarter Final: Emilio Benfele Alvarez def. Thomas Muster (6-1, 7-5)

    1996 Bogota
    Round of 32: Thomas Muster def. Franco Squillari (6-4, 6-3)
    Round of 16: Thomas Muster def. Bryan Shelton (6-4, 6-4)
    Quarter Final: Thomas Muster def. Ramon Delgado (2-6, 6-1, 7-5)
    Semi Final: Thomas Muster def. Lucas Arnold Ker (6-1, 6-7, 6-3)
    Final: Thomas Muster def. Nicolas Lapentti (6-7, 6-2, 6-3)

    Clay-court win-loss record for 1996: 46-3
    Clay-court win-loss record for 1995-1996 combined: 111-5
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    #97
  48. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Twice. They played twice on clay. Three times overall.
     
    #98
  49. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Great player and one of my favorites. I also think that his two-year peak in 95-96 is underrated and by virtue of its Borg/Nadal-like dominance it puts him ahead of guys like Bruguera and Courier for me on clay.
     
    #99
  50. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    12,666
    Location:
    Bierlandt
    1. Borg
    2. Nadal
    3. Rosewall
    4. Cochet
    5. Lendl
    6. Wilander
    7. Laver
    8. Lacoste
    9. Kuerten
    10. Borotra
    11. Drobny
    12. Santana
    13. Gimeno
    14. Vilas
    15. Muster
    16. Federer
    17. Courier
    18. Bruguera
    19. Decugis
     

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