Colette posted Wayne's response to her response to his letter.....

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by dbordel, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. dbordel

    dbordel New User

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    I loved reading it and really laughed at this part - " despite the draconian NCAA rules. Yes, draconian NCAA rules. And nice word, Colette - - - you should be a writer!"

    I really wished Colette would keep up the debate, but she says: "I have no interest in continuing this debate, because I believe we have a fundamental disagreement on the role of a tennis federation, and no amount of back and forth is going to change that."

    Here is the link to the post -

    http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/2012/02/wayne-bryan-responds-to-my-response-to.html
     
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  2. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    In my opinion, Wayne is all about Wayne. He should stick to coaching World Team Tennis. That's right up his alley.
     
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  3. HIGH-TECH TENNIS

    HIGH-TECH TENNIS Rookie

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    Wayne Bryan certainly doesn't need me to defend his right to his opinion but as I recall, he was asked to share his opinion, which is how this whole thing started.

    For what it's worth, Wayne's stating things that we hear ALL THE TIME in the trenches at junior tennis tournaments-and I'm glad he's speaking out on behalf of junior tennis.
     
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  4. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    What a moronic statement to make!
     
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  5. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Wayne Bryan is a tremendous cheerleader for the sport of tennis as Don King was to boxing, however; his comments about how to fix American tennis are way off the mark. Colette Lewis' response to Wayne Bryan's letter was right on the money.
     
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  6. Keysmickey

    Keysmickey Rookie

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    Totally disagree. Colette's response was nothing more than toeing the company line against well made, on the mark arguments against the status quo of the usta.
     
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  7. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Tennisshacker,

    This board only works when we are all respectful, even if we disagree with the other person's statement.

    Your argument would be stronger if you supplied facts and evidence,
    and it would be more meaningful.

    Just a suggestion..
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
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  8. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Wayne's comments about bananas, salt tablets, and white elephants may resonate with members of the forum, but I don't think we'll see a quota on foreign scholarships or the elimination of 10 and under tennis programs anytime soon.
     
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  9. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    In the first Zoo article, I really respected Colette for acknowledging Wayne's statement and for also listing any possible conflict or bias she might have in responding.

    http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/2012/02/my-response-to-wayne-bryans-letter-to.html

    In the second article, I think most writers would have not printed the responses, and I am really glad she did.
    She was not afraid to be challenged, and it further explained Wayne's position, and elaborated on his thinking.

    My favorite two quotes are:

    "I think over the past 23 years, that is what the various and ever changing USTA Player Development regimes have done in perhaps an unintended - - - or maybe an intended way - - - the have emasculated all the local pros and coaches and parents across the US. They say in one form or fashion, "You can't coach these kids to the top. Only we can. Send them to us here at Key Biscayne or Carson - - - or now at Boca. We'll train them and raise them.." Or "Hey, we are taking over now." It chills the rank and file coaches across this country. And it has never worked as they do not have one single player to show for it. They'll try like hell to claim or put their USTA stamp on a player, but everyone sees that for what it is - - - cherry pickin'."

    I wish there was more acknowledgement of the hard work and long hours that some coaches have put in...

    And my second favorite other quote:

    I only ask that foreign parents pay the same taxes for education that our American parents pay. If they would do that for 22 years then I say, their children are entitled to play college tennis in this country. Again, only asking for fundamental fairness. Go to the Italian Open and see how many US players get a WC. Go to Wimbledon and see how many WCs US players get.
     
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  10. Keysmickey

    Keysmickey Rookie

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    Oh, I agree. They aren't about to admit any misjudgment OR jeopardize their ridiculous fat cat salaries. American tennis ... Pisshaw.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
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  11. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Fratengelo wins junior French. Grace Min wins junior US Open. Taylor Townsend wins junior Aussie Open (singles and doubles). Last 4 standing at Les Petite As were all Americans. With all the positive movement we continue to pisshaw American tennis...I don't get it.
     
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  12. Keysmickey

    Keysmickey Rookie

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    Because there are always "top prospects" with good results. Will they move on? Crapshoot. Further, are u sure the last 4. Standing were Americans? I'm simply asking because I don't know. Are all 4 citizens of the US?
     
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  13. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Yes I'm quite certain. Tiafoe, Ponwith, Blumberg, Mmoh all USA.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
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  14. Keysmickey

    Keysmickey Rookie

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    Well, Mmoh is a dual resident of the US along with Dubai. Is that good enough for you? I can't see that he's an American citizen? Maybe he is and I've missed it but the point in general remains. You, must also consider Shiskina an "American" too. I don't.
     
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  15. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    My question is the qualifier tournament in Boca that the USTA put on to participate in the actual tournament.

    I was wondering if the kids were PD kids, and if it was open to all?

    No one was able to fill in the missing blanks in that post.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
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  16. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    It doesn't matter if it's good enough for me. As far as the tournament is concerned, Mmoh represented Team USA. The draw sheet listed him as USA. He went with team USA and wore team USA colors.

    So even by your standards, 3 of the 4 finalists were Americans. Still pretty darn impressive. And the finals was an All American final.
     
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  17. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    You should know by now that some of the poster's on here like to make disrespectful statements.

    They need and should be called out.
     
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  18. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    You can disagree with Wayne Bryan, but you don't need to insult him.

    I would tend to agree with someone who has done more for the game of American tennis than some anonymous poster who takes cheap shots!
     
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  19. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    This board has spun out of control and has become an anti-USTA train wreck. It's just not a healthy path.

    I've enjoyed most of the banter here. On a positive note, at least now you've lost another point of view from the opposing side.

    Good luck with the journey!
     
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  20. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    It's not about "anti USTA", it's about bad changes.
     
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  21. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    I think the board represents, to some degree, the tennis community.
    I am not sure that it has spun out of control,
    but reacting to the many changes that have been forced upon them.
    The kids, age 8-10, are suffering to a degree, and there is a new rumor,
    that they will not be allowed to play up with the new March vote.

    I would agree that since my son has started to play tennis,
    the noise against the USTA has gone from a low whisper to a roar...

    I think people are very unhappy with the USTA
    and what they perceive to be an inordinate amount of money spent on a dozen or so kids.
    Now, we hear from Pat that these kids might be on the college train...
    Seems like it is wasteful, and could be better spent on more kids.

    The many changes are unpopular, and the backlash seems to be just building.
    Nothing is transparent with this organization, changes are hidden from the public,
    and then sprung on them the last minute.....
    Thankfully, most on this board share information, and we are not caught completely by surprise.

    While I think the USTA does many good things, they are wiped out from people's minds with the overbearing attitude of the USTA that pushes down mandates without considering how this might affect kids who are caught in the middle. It appears they don't care, and I find that disturbing.

    The USTA seems to think that it is THEIR money and damm the public....
    Not For Profits usually don't have that type of mentality.

    You reap what you sow.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
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  22. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Well written.

    It really amazes me how some people don't get it.
     
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  23. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Many of the USTA's sections and state organizations have their annual meetings around this time of year. With all respect I'd encourage those who want change to go there, let your voice be heard and start any attempt to change the course there.

    Many with concerns seem to be coming out of SoCal and FL. Here's the links with info to the Sectional Meetings.

    SoCal's meeting is at the L.A. Tennis Center Feb. 20th.
    http://www.scta.usta.com/Newsletter/president’s_message_february_2012/

    Florida has their meeting in December.
    http://www.florida.usta.com/About-Us/2011_Annual_Meeting_Weekend_Information/

    Southern had theirs in early Jan.
    http://www.southern.usta.com/News/usta_southern_annual_meeting_starts_friday/

    The USTA Annual meeting is March 16 – 19 in Carlsbad, CA.
    http://www.usta.com/About-USTA/Organization/Committees/ApplicationInstructions/

    For those who want to find their sections meetings go to your sections website and Google "annual meeting".

    I'm expecting to hear from those with the loudest voices here to post their results from their experiences attending these meetings. Take a video camera so we can see the answers to the questions from the Sectional and National tennis board members and execs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
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  24. Keysmickey

    Keysmickey Rookie

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    What a laugh. I'm obviously arguing on behalf of American tennis players. I am just not in favor of foreign players coming here, residing here, playing under the "American flag" ... I am in favor of American players (citizens of the United States) reaping the benefits of the usta and other privileges offered in the United States, including a reasonable track to college tennis first.

    I have no problem with foreign kids coming here to train and compete but not at the expense of the American kids whom should be our first and foremost consideration. If the benefits of American tennis and the usta affiliation is great enough, these kids can become citizens.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
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  25. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Good info about the annual meetings.

    I tried to google "annual meeting" at the USTA Texas website (fooled around for 20+ min.) & but unfortunately couldn't find a location.

    One post said it was moved from 8:30am to 9:30am.....but didn't list a location. Lots of hits popped up about meetings from the 90s.
     
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  26. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    correct, I have been on this board since 1999 when it first started and it was a pure website filled with excellent advice mostly on equipment from friendly passionate gear heads. Then the board turned political for several years in the raves and rants before it was shut down where religion and political views are now banned on this site. It seems the anti USTA train wreck is following the raves and rants path or in need of its own mini sub section ala classic racquets:oops:

    The USTA can not please everyone %100. They are doing the best with what they have and it takes 5-10 years to see the fruits of the changes. It seems we are impatient and want results in one year. The 0 to 8 kids are not affected, the 8-10 ADVANCED kids which are less than 1% the whole Jr's population are effected ( my son is one of them and we are rolling with the punches). The average (80%) and elite (less than .5%) of the 8-10 kids are not affected. %99 of the Jr playing population from age 10-18 are not affected along with the many other programs that the USTA offers from team tennis to wheelchair to seniors etc..... are not affected.

    The "unpopular" changes are coming from the few voices who were strategically navigating the loopholes. In their minds it seems the changes will now put a damper on their "false" dreams, which may not the case.

    Like I suggested before and it has been suggested again. The folks who have concerns should attend their section meeting and voice their opinions at those meeting. That is all they can do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
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  27. watergirl

    watergirl New User

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    The biggest concern I have is how few junior players (who are all members of the USTA and have no voice) and their parents are even aware of the changes as well as the reduction in national points for sectional play.

    When I posted the changes, the person I got them from was told by USTA employees to not share it and to keep it confidential. I was not the only person stating that USTA employees wanted it secret.

    Why is link not on the web page directing people to this information? Because they don't want people to know and complain before it has officially passed.

    THIS FAILS THE SMELL TEST! This is not about bashing the USTA but there is nothing wrong in demanding full disclosure.

    You know you shouldn't be doing it if you can't talk about. I worry that too few will be there to complain or are too scared of the perceived or real threat of retailition against their child to voice concerns.
     
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  28. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    #28
  29. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    ProTour,

    I made an official complaint to the USTA junior committe,
    about a national tournament in El Paso,
    where they didn't hire official refs, but used their coaches and slapped a tee shirt on them, not even a ref shirt...

    I won't go into it again as I have written about it on this board, and even I get tired of repeating myself.
    But, it was egregious, the behavior of the refs.
    They ref the matches of the kids they knew, and many people complained at the tournament.

    I wrote a long letter explaining all that had went on.
    I felt for sure since it was well detailed, and concerned many players,
    El Paso would not get the tournament again.

    I was wrong.

    I wonder if anyone even read the letter.
     
    #29
  30. Love10s

    Love10s New User

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    AMEN!!! I've been involved with a few national, member-based professional associations through my (non-tennis) work over the years. Typically, these organizations are quite concerned with keeping their members happy. They know they can't please everyone, but they do their darned best to try anyway, for fear of losing members. The kind of unpopular mandates the USTA is pushing on its members would just be unthinkable.

    The USTA has no such fear because a) it currently has a monopoly on tennis in the US, and b) it is incredibly flush with cash from the US Open, not to mention member dues and league tennis fees. They have developed a pretty bad case of HUBRIS as a result. And just like when a person has hubris, others around that person tend to react negatively--even if that person has some good qualities, too.
     
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  31. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    There is a well known case about a boy, I think most people on the board know the story as the email about it went viral.
    ( I don't live in the area, and it reached me... funny how an email can travel).

    Boy is not a USA citizen, but a son of a diplomat.
    ( being in the diplomat business seems to be a good deal as long as you are not in Syria).

    Anyway, he was chosen to be in the USTA training center, and a lot of people found out,
    and there was a big outrage that a non citizen was benefiting, and not the US citizens.

    ( now, I should add that I think if the dad is living here with his family, and I assume he is paying taxes on his salary,
    I think he is entitled to our services, but my thought process seems to be in the minority).

    But, the end of the story is the USTA folded under the pressure here
    as it was coming from so many people who started an email/phone complaint.

    Anyway, I wouldn't feel bad for the boy... family is wealthy and he can afford training.

    But, the USTA does react if it is a loud outcry and they perceive it will be embarrassing for them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
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  32. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Great post.

    The USTA should be serving all of its members, not just a select few.
     
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  33. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Wayne Bryan has developed two of the best and most accomplished American tennis players this century, I think whatever opinions and ideas he has about developing young talent should be consulted and appreciated. The USTA is also doing a very good job but anything less than creating another era of Sampras/Andres/Courier/Chang will be criticized for falling short. Tough situation for everyone.
     
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  34. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    I have complained to a similar situation and my section came down hard on the officials, PD etc..... they did not lose the tournament but things were fixed and changed during our next visit. Other times when I complain nothing is done, usually because I was over reacting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
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  35. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Interesting...

    I complained to my sectional about a poorly run tournament, sectional, where the TD was eating dinner, and the tournament was in two banks, and I witnessed kids fighting, and the one ref was overwhelmed. That site never got a sectional again... Sectional offices are great, no complaints. My only wish list for them would be they get more funding.

    The national department - I don't know... they don't seem responsive.
     
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  36. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    I know this post has come out of nowhere but I was just watching Tennis Channel when "Behind These Walls" just came on. It is about the tennis program at San Quentin Penitentiary. Well, the Bryan brothers along with their dad Wayne came to play with the inmates. For a moment it brought tears to my eyes because you could see the thrill the inmates got with playing with the Bryans. Wayne was there with his loud voice directing the interactions. Then what Chalkflewup wrote came to my mind about Wayne being all about Wayne. After seeing this I wholeheartedly disagree. Wayne is all about the tennis, wherever it is played and whoever plays it.
     
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  37. HIGH-TECH TENNIS

    HIGH-TECH TENNIS Rookie

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    Tcbtennis-I saw it too. I've also had the opportunity to meet and spend a little time with Wayne Bryan AND with his amazing sons. The apple never falls far from the tree and I think WAYNE BRYAN is awesome and I completely disagree with those who say otherwise.
     
    #37
  38. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    I was watching this too! I couldn't believe that I was seeing tennis courts in the "yard" of a prison.
     
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  39. TennisNola

    TennisNola New User

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    That isn't exactly the way it happened. The boy was invited to play practice matches there over the summer (along with other boys)... He was then invited to attend program on a trial basis. His paperwork was not all turned in (which would have revealed his diplomat status). Once the email was sent, his parents were asked to speed along the paperwork, and everything fell apart for him. It was simply not because the USTA was put under pressure.. it was because something was brought to their attention that would have been revealed as his process unfolded anyway. I know the family, as well as the whistle blower, so I am positive that this is what happened. Really... USTA is not worried about embarrassing themselves..
     
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  40. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    The email I received had hundreds of tennis parents addresses on it, and then from there it was forwarded all over the place...

    ( it seemed like a USTA insider would be the only one to have access to that kind of information, so not sure who the whistle blower was...)

    But, I thought it was due to so many parents complaining....
    that a boy who was not a US citizen was being offered free training at the USTA player development site.

    You seem like you know the inside story, so I will take your version.

    I do find it strange that he was invited to play there over the summer ( that is from your info), and they wouldn't have asked such a basic question, like are you a US citizen?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
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  41. TennisNola

    TennisNola New User

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    Like you, I don't know where the whistle blower got all of the email addresses, but she was for sure not an insider.. has 2 kids who play in the Eastern Section who are not of the quality to be admitted to the program. The "diplomat kid" was invited as a match player.. while many of the full-time kids were traveling in and out of town for tournaments, they tend to invite other kids in and out to play matches with the kids who are still there. It wasn't that strange, and they would have been found out almost at the same time the email was sent (at the very beginning of fall program). Also.. as far as paying taxes, I am not sure how all of that works with diplomats, etc., but I do know that the kid would play Davis Cup for Luxemburg, not USA.. that is what prevents the free training from happening, not who is paying taxes to where.
     
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  42. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Ok.. so it is that he would be playing for another country.
    Makes sense.
     
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  43. Keysmickey

    Keysmickey Rookie

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    But that's not enough, is it? Should a kid of other citizenship simply be able to "declare" playing under the US flag be sufficient? ... Of course not. Be a citizen or pay to play...
     
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