Come Out, Come Out, Wherever You Are

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Cindysphinx, May 22, 2009.

  1. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    So if you're sure in your own mind that your team played square, then give these people the power to ruin it? The singles player didn't demand a an official while the match was going on. After she lost, probably her captain said, "Why'd you lose?", then, to save face, she probably said something about bad line calls and that led to the other stuff. It's too little, too late. Yes, she should have been a good loser. Sounds like they were overly competititve. But as long as they didn't steal credit cards or rough up one of you in the parking lot, this ought to be something you just shake off. Most people are more pleasant than this, but people can also be alot worse than this. Keep it in perspective.
     
    #51
  2. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Wow, if an opposing captain comes up to me after a match and says that, I'm liable to smack her in the face. Which brings up a whole 'nother can of worms!!!

    How rude!
     
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  3. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Not good...

    ...I don't have any ideas except "don't go there." I am, frankly, appalled at the kind of crap that apparently goes on in NTRP leagues. This stuff, IMHO, is reality TV, and has about as much to do with real tennis as Reality TV has to do with reality. I have no idea how you folks put up with it, and I wouldn't. I'm here to play tennis, win or lose, but tennis according to the rules of fair play as described in the following:

    Let me tell a story......

    I'm 61, have been playing tennis, coaching it, and so forth, since I was about 10...which my guess is, most of you have not. Doesn't make any of us Bad People, just make us different. Back in the 60s, when I was growing up on a tennis court, everybody's hero was Rod Laver. He was a little dinky guy with a Popeye forearm and an incredible heart who had just won the 1962 Grand Slam. Understand that he won it again in 1969, and nobody since has won it.

    The players back then, Laver included, were a different breed. In his first autobiography, Laver said that the year after his first Grand Slam was magical! He had won the munificent sum of $100,000 and was trotting around the world as the Grand Slam champion of a game. Know who else was an Aussie player at the time? A guy named "Nails" Carmicheal. Know why they called him "Nails"? Because even though he was the #4, or something like that, player in Oz, that wasn't worth enough money for him to be able to travel the circuit, so...he was pounding nails, on a construction site, until he could get enough bucks together to go out and, you know, play tennis again. Some of his Aussie mates gave him some encouragement and some money, and he got back out there, and had a grand tennis career.

    All of the old Aussies...and the corresponding Americans and other players on the tour of that era, had the same qualities, in this order:

    - Honesty, and fair play, to a fault. They were gentlemen, in the full sense of the word.

    - Matesmanship. Mantesmanship is an Aussie term, which I learned from my former coach, Dave Hodge. An Aussie, Dave was a prodigous talent, could have been an ATP star in singles, IMHO, but always felt like team play and doubles was the ultimate tennis competitive cauldron...and that the solidarity one has with one's mates...your buddies on court, and in life...is what really counts, when it all comes down to it.

    - Doing your best as an athlete, always, with no excuses. I could write a novel on this one, but it pretty much stands on its own, for now.

    - Playing tennis the way that the grand game of tennis deserves...with elegance, with grace, with dignity.

    There is no room in that ethic for any discussion of, or issues with, cheating, hooking, or whatever you want to call it. And that's basically the arena in which, in the remaining days of my life long career in tennis, I intend to spend on a tennis court.

    Two summers ago, I played a second round Men's Age Group match (I forget which one it was, but I think it was Men's 50) in the Denver City Open, one of the big tournaments in the Colorado summer circuit. My opponent was Gary Maccholz. I was probably a 5.0 at the time, he was definitely at least a 5.5. We both played our hearts out, and he won, something like 6-2, 6-2. There was a curious moment in the second set where when I was 2-5 down, 15-40 down, I called his first serve, a winner, good. He said "No, Richard...that was out by two feet...second serve." And proceeded to drill me off the court on the next point to win the match.

    I was crestfallen. I had played a great match, and had gotten schooled. I was ready to take up bowling until two things happened:

    - My then coach, Sam Winterbotham, then Head Coach of the CU Mens' Tennis Team, came up to me and said "Well done...you did everything you could, everything I've taught you, he just won the last point."

    - Gary came up to me and said "You have a great game...want to hit some balls next week?"

    You could have knocked me over with a feather. Of course, I took Gary up on his invitation, and we have been buddies and hitting partners ever since. He's passed on to me all kinds of useful info from his time as one of Peter Burwash's instructors, and has gotten me a ton of Adidas stuff for no money, because he's one of the national reps.

    So I lost a match, which wasn't great...but you know what? It was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had on a tennis court, and there wasn't any discussion of line calls or anything else having to do with the NTRP Lawyer's Rule Guide.

    I've since continued to play Men's Age Group tournaments, and it's been a uniquely rewarding experience. All the guys I play grew up on a tennis court in about the same era I did, and they all play hard, play fair, and play a great, elegant game of tennis. And that's what I'm looking for...how about you?
     
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  4. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Skiracer do you write for a living. Every post i see of yours is a small novel.
     
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  5. Kostas

    Kostas Semi-Pro

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    Nice story Ski and I don't want to detract from it, but it's not a huge display of sportsmanship by giving an opponent the benefit of a call when you're giving him a thumping.

    The real test is when HE is down a set and two breaks and two match points and he doesn't take that point.

    Glad you guys remained friends tho.
     
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  6. iamgoat

    iamgoat Banned

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    My suggestion. Reduce the number of threads you make.

    I guarantee that your tennis disturbances will greatly decrease.
     
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  7. Xisbum

    Xisbum Semi-Pro

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    My reaction would depend on the circumstances, although I would defend my player/s in all situations. If the opposing captain's team had just lost the match 1-4, I would tend to consider the outburst as frustration boiling over and let it slide (after defending my player's honor). If the opposing captain's team had just won the match 4-1, I would still defend my player's honor and then vigorously discuss the true meaning of sportsmanship with the other captain.

    I would never hit another player, but I would try to make enough logical points so that they might want to hit me. :) And I would have my biggest, strongest, baddest best friend standing right next to me.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2009
    #57
  8. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    Thanks for the great post. That is a what tennis is all about...two players leaving it all out on the court, no excuses.. no drama. Good hard play.. you played the best you could and did not take a bathroom break at 2-6, 2-5.

    Regards,
     
    #58
  9. slick

    slick Rookie

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    Bravo! Well said sir.
     
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  10. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Well, I never really would either (especially with all the lawyers in this area), but I'd really, really *want* to!
     
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  11. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No need for a sex change, guys wouldn't mind a girl on their team.

    If you don't believe me, just walk into the men's locker room. I am sure you will get a hero's welcome. Much the opposite of what happens when a guy goes into the ladies locker room!

    J
     
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  12. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    What would be even funnier would be if Cindy went into the bathroom, only to find that they were all hiding out smoking pot in there!

    J
     
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  13. nickynu

    nickynu Semi-Pro

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    Hi Cindy, I want to be tactful here as I think my comments in the previous thread "Lordy are we this bad" may have caused some offence due to my lack of knowledge of team captaincy differences in the USA

    Firstly I love your posts as I you raise some personal emotions that we have all felt at one time or another playing league tennis.

    In this particular instance however I feel that maybe you were ready for a confrontation before it started (let me know is that true?) from your description of the opposing captain, which may have lead to certain tensions.

    Whilst you accuse her of being very cut throat, it seems from what you have written that you are the cut throat one, as you were trying to enforce penalties, and reminding her of rules etc (for me 2 minutes/5 minutes-so what? I just wanna play)

    The fact your own description of your entrance to the locker room was: "I Barge in" this sounds more than a little confrontational which could be why the other captain became very defensive, and catty back with you.

    Let me know if I have this wrong, but I always thisnk that there are 2 sides to the story, hers will paint you guys as the villains, no doubt.

    PS - dont change-ever!!
     
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  14. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, I do think you have it wrong. Had I been the confrontational one, I would have insisted on the penalty and had a hissy fit when she dressed down my player and when she tried to pull a fast one by hiding.

    Are there two sides to every story? Sure, I'm sure she has a side. It probably goes something like this: "We want to go to Nationals, and my player was late and I was in a jam. I didn't want to take a chance that I'd get a line-up penalty, so I made myself conveniently 'unavailable.' I couldn't take a chance that Cindy might actually insist on following the rules. A gal's gotta do what a gal's gotta do."

    As far as her being cut throat . . . you'll simply have to take my word on it. She is legendary.
     
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  15. nickynu

    nickynu Semi-Pro

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    No Cindy Im not saying she is right- just that she will believe she is, people usually find a way to justify their own poor behaviour. Probably she does this too. Same with the cut-throat thing, you obviously have her number, she will know this and therefore it antagonises her, leading her to seek to justify herself, ..... and on and on!!
     
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  16. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    What a stupid thread. Whooo....a few minutes late exchanging because a player was delayed.....for league tennis....

    And no, obviously she was hiding in the bathroom because YOU are the type that gets all worked up about being a few minutes late. You claim NOW that you would have been understanding, but the fact that you chased them in there, thought about a hissy fit, and now wish to make a formal issue out of is, and posted a big rant here, speaks volumes to your real mindset.

    Unbelievably childish. FIFTY YEARS OLD.....yikes.

    This kind of a story belongs in high school. All one can really do is feel sorry for people who don't recognize this.
     
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  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    My wife is crazy about this sitcom
     
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  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    No, it was past the 5 minutes before match deadline
     
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  19. subaru3169

    subaru3169 Semi-Pro

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    quick question since i'm unfamiliar with league play.. but isn't there supposed to be some kind of supervision or administration person in tournaments to decide these types of defaults??
     
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  20. MNPlayer

    MNPlayer Semi-Pro

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    I was 15-20 minutes late for a 3.5 match last week because I was confused about the match location. Had to drive like mad to make it there only that late. I was ready for them to apply whatever rules there are to handle this, but the opposing captain and the guy I was playing did not seem to mind. We just took an abbreviated warmup. I ended up winning the match and no complaints from them after the fact either.

    Just wanted to share my typical experience in USTA. :)

    Sometimes I worry people will get scared away from USTA competition with all the crazy stories you see on this board.
     
    #70
  21. slick

    slick Rookie

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    ^^^^^^
    Exactly. That's how things are in the leagues I have played in. Everybody wants to play tennis and is cool about it if circumstances occasionally makes someone a little late.

    When you get beyond local league play there are USTA officials present who enforce the late player rules.
     
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  22. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    That sounds nice, it really does.

    I don't know if you play in a league with timed matches, but in those leagues lateness is simply not tolerated. The D.C. and Northern Virginia leagues have timed 90-minute matches, and our Maryland league has 2-hour timed matches. Matches often time out (this happened on two of three doubles courts for my DC team this week). The player who is late is depriving the opponent(s) from the chance to contest the match fully, and the local rules say that taking time penalties and defaults is mandatory.

    Further complicating matters is that the rules require the lowest court to be defaulted. Matches can't start until everyone knows that there won't be a default on the higher courts. Lateness also delays the captain(s) in their match. There can be a significant ripple effect of tardiness. Also keep in mind that the instant the horn sounds signifying that your two hours are over, there will be another team waiting to begin their timed match, and they won't let you play even one extra point before they walk on and start their match.

    Folks will cut you a break if you are pulling into the parking lot, but anything more than that and they will take your default without missing a beat. The rules apply to everyone, and most people get there early or are prepared to suffer the consequences.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2009
    #72
  23. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I am...


    ...my day job is (ahem) software technical writing, but I've also written for Powder, Ski Racing, and other magazines. I've also self-published two monographs of my photography and the following:

    http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles/RMalm-2001-10-DayJob.pdf

    Enjoy!
     
    #73
  24. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    True....

    ...but I take my sportsmanship where I find it...some days, there ain't much of it around, and on this occasion, I thought it was particularly gracious on Gary's part. I got hit in the eye with a bungy cord about 5 years ago, and had to have a 5 hour lensectomy (remove original lens, replace with a plastic implant). I did Lasik in the other eye, they are both 20/25, but the muscles in my bad eye that control dilation and contraction of the pupil are all blown. I will never be able to contract the pupil again, so I'm ultra sensitive to light and have lost some depth perception. So I call against myself a lot, and I'm always appreciative when somebody is willing to overrule a ball I inadvertently called good, whatever the occasion...
     
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  25. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks much...

    ...some day, I'm going to collect all my posts...not just here, but from roadbikereview.com and the Barking Bears ski forums, make them into a book, and call it "The World According to Skiracer55", and you get a signed copy...
     
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  26. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks also...

    ...you also get a signed copy of "The World According to Skiracer55"...watch this space!
     
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  27. nickynu

    nickynu Semi-Pro

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    Can I choose not to receive a complementary "world according to skiracer" until I have approved a sample chapter. Hpe this helps cut down on postage costs mate :)
     
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  28. slick

    slick Rookie

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    Being an active masters ski racer myself and father of junior ski racers I am a subscriber of Ski Racing Magazine and am a frequent reader of Powder Mag so I probably read some of your stuff!
     
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  29. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Ha ha ha ha ha...

    ...very good. Watch this space, I'll be working on it over the summer...in addition to Ride the Rockies, a 380 mile Death Ride over some of the highest passes in Colorado, which is one reason why I'm not playing much tennis so far this summer...and my day job, which is...writing software technical manuals, from what I remember...but you'll get the first sample chapter...also, I will be working on my first novel, "Whiteout", which is about ski bumming in Colorado in the 70s and 80s, which I did for 11 years...I think. In the meantime, try this:

    http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles/RMalm-2001-10-DayJob.pdf
     
    #79
  30. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    I'll bet you did...and for a teaser, try this...



    http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles/RMalm-2001-10-DayJob.pdf
     
    #80
  31. MNPlayer

    MNPlayer Semi-Pro

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    We don't play timed matches in our region although of course there is often some limit on indoor court time. I agree this would make a big difference. If we run out of time and someone is waiting for the court, we are supposed to finish the match at a different date/time. Only once has this happened to me. It is a big pain, but timed matches would be worse, IMO.

    Not too long ago, our 4.0 league match was preceded by a 5.0 match. The #1 5.0 singles match went way after we were supposed to start but the guys using that court just waited until they were done. TonLars happened to be one of the players actually. I think this is the convention used for USTA at that location. Nobody wants to get kicked off in the middle of a tough match and I personally have no problem waiting for someone else in order to make that possible.
     
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  32. Sakkijarvi

    Sakkijarvi Semi-Pro

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    What I think is really brilliant is when sites have content creators like "Cindy" (who may be a guy named Mike) come along and drive visits to their place. People are so 'smart', yet they jump right in with all of the usual behavior: auto-didactic shrinks, insults, atavistic types, empathic supporters.

    Without "Cindy" there really wouldn't be much to read here. My friends in Finland often misuse masculine and feminine, referring to their mother as "he"...so I say, "Cindy, he is very entertaining". To TW management, kudos.
     
    #82
  33. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    My real name is Laars, and I could use a raise.
     
    #83
  34. North

    North Professional

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    You keep at it Laars. I'm glad to see you back. Will you take a lifetime supply of Lutefisk in lieu of a raise?
     
    #84
  35. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Lutefisk?

    Erm . . . if it's sweet or salty, count me in!
     
    #85
  36. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Thanks for being patient and not kicking me off! I would have been so mad!

    PS that was pretty funny about my dad when you came to watch that tournament match, I told him what you said and he got a kick out of it
     
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  37. MNPlayer

    MNPlayer Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, I immediately saw the resemblance once you said he was your dad. But I was totally clueless until then!
     
    #87

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