Comparative Reviews

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TW Staff, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. TW Staff

    TW Staff Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    24,317
    Location:
    Tennis-Warehouse.com
    #1
  2. Nadal_Rulz

    Nadal_Rulz Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    621
    tw, could you please email me at karpfish24@mac.com or give me an email for someone because i am interested in doing one of these.
     
    #2
  3. chrisphillips

    chrisphillips New User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Messages:
    11
    The link for the babolat pure drive plus, head liquidmetal 4, volkl tour 5 review is broken. Could you guys please fix it? I was interested in reading it.
    Thanks,
    Chris
     
    #3
  4. shsman2091

    shsman2091 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    I'm also interested in doing one of these, TW you can email me at saad24@msn.com and I would love to do one.
     
    #4
  5. Hewitt rulez

    Hewitt rulez Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    638
    #5
  6. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,810
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
    #6
  7. kabob

    kabob Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Dallas
    I wish the playtesters would give more time to hitting with the 12-oz+ small-head racquets such as the Wilson PS 6.0 original or the nCode Tour 90. Those racquets play so differently from most other modern day racquets that I believe the playtesters' reviews would be more positive if they had a chance to be more acclimated to the frames.
     
    #7
  8. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,454
    I think we have. :D

    1. http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/playtests/BREAKP02.html

    2. http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/playtests/TRIPB04.html
     
    #8
  9. leechag

    leechag Guest

    Does anyone know what racket is the wilson pro 100? I bought it off ****. It is 90 square inches 19mm with a 16 by 19 string pattern and 90 square inches. It weighs around 13 ounces and has sjo or ? like that on the but cap. Is this racket related to the prostaff?
     
    #9
  10. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,810
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Racquets: Flex, Weight, Balance and Swingweight

    (courtesy of ChicagoJack)

    Excerpted from:
    -Drew Sunderland, Racquet Sports Industry Magazine, May 2004

    FLEX
    A stiff frame has a weak deflection when the string face is impacted by a ball. This weak deflection allows the stringbed to now interact more with the ball. Because strings are more resilient than the frame, they work harder when supported by a stiff hoop than with a flexible hoop. Because they are working harder, they also will experience a shorter string life (both durability and playability), but yield more power and, in many cases, more accuracy. However, they are not as forgiving on the arm, as the initial shock from an off-center hit is not absorbed in the frame as well as with a flexible model. Think of yourself in an egg-catching contest. You have been assigned to stand perfectly still and not move your hand backward with the impact of the egg in your hand while your opponent is allowed to move his hand with the impact of the egg to gradually slow it down. Which one of you wins this contest?

    This brings us to the next point ...

    WEIGHT
    The more mass an object has, the more energy it can absorb. Imagine yourself driving a light compact car into an embankment at 30 mph, and then doing the same collision with a Sherman tank. Which vehicle folds up more? If you refer to Rod Cross's article "Racquet Power and the Ideal Racquet Weight" in the February 2004 issue of RSI, you will note how he calculates the ideal racquet weight by examining the weight of the player's hitting arm. It is well known that you don't need to work as hard with a heavier racquet to obtain ball speed, provided you can maneuver the frame into position for the ideal point of contact. In essence, you should use the heaviest racquet you can "comfortably" swing. Not only will it yield more power, it will also absorb more energy on impact.

    However, you can't just wield a heavier racquet without regard to ...

    BALANCE
    Static balance, or "pick-up weight," allows you to either handle added weight or not. Three racquets all have 300 grams of weight. The first has 150 grams toward the handle, 75 grams in the throat area and 75 grams in the head. The second has 100 grams in the handle, 100 grams in the throat area and 100 grams in the head. The third has 75 grams in the handle, 75 grams in the throat area and 150 grams in the head. To put it simply, the first is headlight, the second is evenly balanced and the third is headheavy. The most powerful of these frames is the headheavy model and the least powerful is the headlight model. Think of the weighting of a hammer. The handle is light, the head is heavy and it packs a pretty good punch. Turn the hammer around, putting the head of the hammer in your hand, and try nailing with the handle. Tennis frames react in a similar fashion when weight (lead tape) is added.

    The positioning of any added weight is critical to the performance of the racquet because it may severely affect the ...

    SWINGWEIGHT
    Swingweight, in simple terms, is what the racquet feels like in motion. A combination of too much overall weight and too much of the total weight concentrated toward the head of a racquet will yield a non-maneuverable frame. Baseline players tend to prefer higher swingweights, while serve-and-volleyers enjoy lower swingweights. Players with elbow problems are more comfortable with lower swingweights. Weight positioned at 6 and 12 o'clock will yield more power, but less stability, than weight at 3 and 9 o'clock. Racquets with too high a swingweight, although they will yield a powerful punch upon impact with the ball, take too much energy to maneuver into position, causing late contact and possible arm discomfort. Swingweights that are too low find the player consistently early on contact and prone to mis-hits, which may cause arm discomfort as well."
     
    #10
  11. K!ck5w3rvE

    K!ck5w3rvE Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,621
    Thanks TW...
     
    #11
  12. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,810
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    String Tension: The Effect on Accuracy/Control and Spin

    I think this is still a quite complex subject and an area of debate even between professionals of tennis and physics. I for myself haven't studied enough the physics of the racquets to come up with a definite answer.

    Check the racquetresearch.com site. This is an article which gives a clear view of the various arguments:

    http://www.racquetresearch.com/sevencri.htm#The Effect of String Tension
     
    #12
  13. mctennis

    mctennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,426
    I'm not sure where Wimot went to that did Racquet Research but I do miss all his info he posted very, very much. It was a great tool to look at and review to help you find a racquet. Where is he? Help us Wimot!!!
     
    #13
  14. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,810
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Racquet Industry: Racquet Data 2004-2006

    (courtesy of shovel99)

    I added to the 2005-6 links to the links for 2004 and the ones for fall 2005.
     
    #14
  15. SAMPRAS

    SAMPRAS Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    630
    #15
  16. Squid

    Squid Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    238
    i was wondering where i can find a comparative review between a ncode six-one tour 90 and the prostaff classic 6.1
     
    #16
  17. The Pusher Terminator

    The Pusher Terminator Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,927
    Can you please have someone do a comparitive review of the Maxplay Mcenroe and the Ncode surge,,,,they are almost the same racquet if you look at the specs!
     
    #17
  18. iksmols

    iksmols Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    449
    #18
  19. Momoshiro

    Momoshiro Guest

    Muscle Weave vs. M-fil

    i would like a comparative review of the mfil 200 and the 200g muscle weave if possible. thx very much
     
    #19
  20. Final_Match_Point

    Final_Match_Point Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    594
    Hmm id really like to see a review of some OS racquets Namely The Flexpoint radical os vs Prince tt scream vs Ncode n5 os
     
    #20
  21. Will888

    Will888 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    428
    I was wondering if can have someone do a comparitive review of the Yonex RDS 001 Midplus, Yonex RDX 500 Midplus and maybe Babolat Pure Drive Roddick. Thankyou very much!
     
    #21
  22. dylo

    dylo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    587
    #22
  23. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    I did my own review of both of these (not following the TW Review Format). See The Mac and The Surge.

    (They don't hit very much alike, IMO.)

    - KK
     
    #23
  24. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    4,649
    #24
  25. dylo

    dylo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    587
    i didnt mean that if you want to do reviews, email me. i meant that i am interested in doing them my self

    sory for the confusion
     
    #25
  26. TripleB

    TripleB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    3,736
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I wasn't being "bias" against the nCode Tour 90, I just reported my playing experience with the racquet. The racquet basically just didn't allow me to play very good tennis without changing my style of play, so I reported my findings based on how the racquet fit my game. I don't go into a review saying, "I'm going to like this racquet or I'm going to hate this racquet" and then base my ratings on what my preconceptions of the racquet were. I try to go into each playtest with an open mind and if the racquet fits my game (Pure Drive Roddick, ProStaff 95, Nano Speed RQ-7) then it's going to receive positive marks and if it doesn't fit my game (AeroPro Drive, nCode Tour 90) then it won't receive very good marks.

    I've gone into a couple playtests thinking I was going to like a particular racquet only to find out it didn't fit my game. I've also gone into a playtest thinking I was going to hate the racquet only to like so much I bought one (Pure Drive Roddick).

    TripleB
     
    #26
  27. eric72

    eric72 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    8
    What OS frame is the best for me ?

    Hi,

    I have to choose an OS racquet.
    I'm looking for a comfortable, forgiving and control racket.

    What is the difference between Prince O3 tour OS, Wilson n blade OS, head LM radical OS and head Flexpoint Radical OS ?

    I think my choice is between this 4 racquets but do you have more suggestions ?

    Eric
     
    #27
  28. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,454
    Why? Why do you "have to" choose an OS racquet? :confused:

    If you want control, an OS racquet is not it.
     
    #28
  29. azarel

    azarel New User

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    26
    Pure Storm vs Pure Drive Cortex vs Pure Drive Roddick Cortex

    If someone could do a comparative review on those three racquets that would be great :D.Triple B, i think you may have played with all three? TW never reviewed the Pure Storm so I couldn't compare the three using their scores.
     
    #29
  30. me is bored

    me is bored Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    521
    Location:
    South Houston
    Can anybody do this comparison?!?!?

    I was wondering if anybody can do a comparison between Prince Graphite (original) and RDS 001 midsize and midplus and maybe a prince o3 tourn midsize:) please with a smile :]
     
    #30
  31. madmanfool

    madmanfool Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    569
    excellent idea, maybe switch the POG for an Dunlop Aerogel 100 or 200..that would be perfect
     
    #31
  32. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,612
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    I do not understand your point of view as a tester/reporter.

    Who cares if the frame fits your game ?
    Isn't your responsibility to report about the racquet ?
    It has positive and negative points and they should be illuminated so READERS can man make an informed choice concerning that frame.

    Besides, if you customize almost any frame you can make it more to your own liking and I assume you do not do that when play testing.
     
    #32
  33. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,454
    Paul,
    Please understand that the comparative playtests performed by independent playtesters from this board, such as TripleB and myself, are NOT supposed to be objective playtests. They are supposed to be SUBJECTIVE playtests. We are not part of TW Staff and we are not writing a review of a new racquet, as that is what TW Staff already does. The purpose of the independent comparative playtests is to provide a third party opinion (one that is not influenced by an affiliation with a business that depends on selling tennis racquets) of several similar racquets and how they compare against each other, what we liked or disliked about each one, and yes, how they each fit with our own particular games. That is why each playtester at the very top of each report describes his or her game so that the reader can keep that in mind as they read the report and understand that if their own game or level is very different than that of the playtester, then they may feel very differently about the racquets being tested.

    If you think about it, ALL reviews are subjective by definition, since they are based upon someone's personal opinion of something. And opinions are based upon our own pool of knowledge and past personal experiences, and not anyone else's. For example, a playtester may give the nSix-One Tour a poor rating because they normally play with a 10 oz. OS racquet, so that the nSix-One Tour feels too heavy and too small for their game so it doesn't fit them. Another playtester may normally use a heavy, midsized racquet like the PS 6.0 85, so he may give the nSix-One Tour a high rating because it fits his game well and he doesn't find it too heavy nor too small at all.

    I think you've been around this board long enough to realize that you can ask 10 different people about the same racquet and you might get back 10 different opinions. That's because each person's opinion is based upon how well the racquet fits their own games. It's all relative. So the comparative playtests are our own personal opinions on how each racquet plays relative to each other, AS WELL AS, relative to our normal racquet that we play with.

    Hope that clears it up for you. :D
     
    #33
  34. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,915
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    I totally disagree..Racquet reviews can and should be OBJECTIVE and not SUBJECTIVE..if someone playtests a racquet subjectively, they just arent good playtesters, and are letting ther ego's, biases, and lack of tennis gear knowledge and experiences shine thorugh.

    In fact, sublective reviews shouldnt even be considered as valid, as if people are buying racquets based upon someone subjective opinions, they buy assuming that the playtester plays at exactly to the same ability and has the same strokes as they do, which i think we can agree is impossible.

    I good playtester can take himself out of the equation, know how a racquet might play for other people with different strokes and abilities, and not deem a racquet as inferior just because they dont know how to make it work or because it doesnt suit their game. A good playtester is also a good enough player where he/she can play well with anything.
    Expressions like "this frame is too light, too stiff, unstable" etc are pretty meaningless as all that means is this racquet is too light for them and surely not for others...or that someone isnt good enough to hit the sweetspot of a certain frame so they declare the racquet unstable.
     
    #34
  35. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,454
    I guess you must also think that movie reviews written by movie critics are also objective? They must be, right, since they are obviously very good reviewers as they are professional critics and write movie reviews for a living?

    How can an opinion of something NOT be subjective? :confused: That's why it's called an "opinion". The definition of "subjective" is that it's someone's opinion. Since it's the playtester playing with the racquet, how can it possibly be anyone else's opinion other than the playtester's? :confused:
     
    #35
  36. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,915
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    we disagree..not surprising. i explained things in my previous post, and suggest to you that movies are way different than tennis racquets
     
    #36
  37. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    5,437
    objective is removing oneself from the pic and observing/reporting from an unbiased viewpoint. ski testers do it by having skis in the test set covered with tape/mylar hiding the mfg which may bias the results. not as easy for tennis racquets since shapes can give away the mfg. however objectivity is the fairest method.
     
    #37
  38. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,454
    But anytime you ask someone for an opinion of something, it is automatically subjective because it is based upon that person's personal experiences, beliefs, biases, likes and dislikes, background, etc. Not even the Supreme Court gives objective opinions, which is why the confirmation process for justices is so thorough so that they can scrutinize every bit of their backgrounds, experiences, and biases since they know those things will influence their future opinions.

    For example, if the playtester's regular racquet that he's been playing with for 5 years weighs 13 oz., when he plays with a 11.5 oz. test racquet, he will likely comment that it's a light racquet that swings and maneuvers easily. However, if the playtester's regular racquet weighs 10 oz., he will likely comment that the same 11.5 oz. test racquet feels heavy and is hard to swing and hard to maneuver. You cannot be objective because it is based upon your own personal opinion and experiences, which by definition, is subjective.

    Putting a racquet on a scale that reads 13.0 oz. is an objective number. Holding the racquet and swinging it and saying that it feels like a 13.oz. racquet (or that it feels heavy) is a subjective number.
     
    #38
  39. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    5,437
    being objective is removing one's personal feelings/biases and evaluating from that point. it's done all the time but it does take mental training and discipline. some people have an easier time doing this than others. i'm one of the logical types and it comes easier to me. i can't say the same about the gf. ;)
     
    #39
  40. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,454
    But how would you do that? :confused: If you do a playtest and conclude that a racquet is "good", is that being objective? It's only "good" according to you, right? So isn't "good" your own personal opinion, and therefore, subjective? Most other people may find that same racquet, "bad", right?

    I guess I just don't see how one could "remove" themselves from the playtest because then it wouldn't be you doing the playtest anymore, and they might as well mount the racquet on a machine and have the machine conduct the playtest, right?
     
    #40
  41. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    5,437

    if i review a racquet and indicate each aspect without bias then that would be objective. whether good, bad or whatever it comprises a single objective review . and yes it is only my review and but a single review.

    now if there are a number of objective playtesters reviewing the same item then a more definitive evaluation of that item is formed. however if the reviews are subjective then the resulting cumulative evaluation tends to be skewed, dependent upon each reviewer, and not a true result.

    within the past several months of returning to tennis, i reviewed the specs, playtests and searched this forum on specific racquets. in my racquet search i sought out the most objective info. as a result i bought all 3 different racquets without a single demo. each racquet has been received well (2 weren't for me). altho i don't recommend this practice for everyone it has worked for me. but then again i'm a logical type and i value objectivity.
     
    #41
  42. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    6,581
    A good reviewer will divide any assessment into two parts - technical and personal. In the technical part of the review they attempt to explain the 'nuts and bolts' of the object under review, its purpose, how it operates, construction, execution, etc. In the personal part of the review they explain their reaction to the object at hand.

    In some reviews the personal dominates the technical - due to their format and language, those type of reviews are very obvious. In those cases, the object under review is secondary to the reviewer him/herself and operates as a means by which their ego can be stroked. It is an infantile, 'look at me' approach (the infant thinking that they are the centre of the universe) that, without any skill on the part of the writer, falls flat. Done well, it is highly entertaining and, occasionally, informative.

    A good technical review examines the object at hand as it was intended to be used and with no or minimal alteration. In other words, you don't read 'American Pie' from a Marxist perspective, you don't review a family sedan after it has been fully customised and you don't review a tennis racquet after you have modified it.

    A good racquet reviewer will be intelligent enough to factor in differences in weight, balance, swingweight and/or flex. They won't attempt to alter any of those things but will play the racquet on its merits and, to provide a reference point for their audience, might compare it to other, similar frames.

    An inferior reviewer will attempt to change the weight, balance, swingweight, etc- because, for them, any review they write isn't a review of an object but a review of themselves . They will then attempt to pass off their opinion as fact, even though they've never properly assessed the object.
     
    #42
  43. supertennis

    supertennis New User

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    60
    Thanks TW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
     
    #43
  44. z-money

    z-money Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Kansas
    TW
    I am a tennis pro in wichita can you email me on letting me playtest for you?
    zachl620@hotmail.com personal contact
    zachloomis.usptapro.com proof
     
    #44
  45. TripleB

    TripleB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    3,736
    Location:
    North Carolina
    It's impossible to 'take yourself' out of the equation when doing a review. Especially if you have to give each racquet a number value in various categories such as 'Topspin', 'Slice', 'Control', 'Feel', 'Comfort', etc. How do you give a number value for 13 different categories without allowing your opinion come into play?

    Even the pros here that perform reviews give their impressions of a racquet. Example (a quote from a Review performed by Chris of TW):

    Chris said, "my favorite shot with this racquet was the serve. I was finding lots of pace on my first serve and actually had to reign in the power a little to up my consistency. I also felt like I was getting a little more snap on my kick serve with this racquet compared to the standard length version. I really found this racquet well suited to a one-two combo of a big serve, followed by a put-a-way mid-court ball."

    Would a person that uses the most powerful serving racquet out there still believe that "I was finding lots of pace on my first serve....?" Probably not, that person would find a loss of power and would probably say so in his review.

    Would a person that doesn't have a good serve or doesn't feel comfortable in the mid court really find that this racquet would allow them to use a "one-two combo of a big serve, followed by a put-a-way mid-court ball?"

    I think we would all agree that Chris is one of the best 'Reviewers' anywhere but according to you he's not a good playtester because he "couldn't take himself out of the equation," because a personal account of how this racquet would help his game.

    Chris, because he is a professional (unlike myself), also includes who he thinks a racquet might be suited for in his review. I try not to do that because I don't want someone to purchase a racquet (not that anyone would, but it's possible) because my review said it should 'fit their game'.

    It seems to me, by your standards, any review that contains the words "my", "I", "me", etc. would be invalid!!!

    TripleB
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
    #45
  46. In2theriver

    In2theriver New User

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    15
    I'll give you my opinion, since reviews are always opinion based...
    I like something with a thin frame, about 100 sq. in. standard length, 27.

    I think a raquet like this is good for your average 'player', in that it is great for improving your game. This raquet forces you to use good strokes, because some of the raquets out their do it all for you.

    Practice makes perfect

    All the best, Johnny



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    www.squidoo.com/tennisserve == learn how to serve correctly
     
    #46
  47. TENNIS 67

    TENNIS 67 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    In a place
    Hey what racquet do you use?
     
    #47
  48. TENNIS 67

    TENNIS 67 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    In a place
    What kind of racquet are you currently using?
     
    #48

Share This Page