Comparing Federer and Nadal's First 10 Grand Slam Championships

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by McEnroeisanartist, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

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    I thought it would be interesting to compare how Federer and Nadal did in each of their first 10 Grand Slam Championships.

    Each Grand Slam Won
    Federer - 3 Australian Opens, 4 Wimbledons, and 3 US Opens
    Nadal - 1 Australian Open, 6 French Opens, 2 Wimbledons, and 1 US Open.

    Number of players Ranked in the Top 10 Defeated

    Federer - 21
    Nadal - 18
    Note: If you take each other out, then it is Federer - 19, Nadal - 11
    Note: Federer had three Grand Slams where he defeated 3 Top 10 Ranked Players in one Grand Slam. Nadal accomplished this once at the 2011 French Open defeating the 5th Ranked, 4th Ranked, and 3rd Ranked players. Federer would achieve this at the 2007 US Open.

    Total Sets Lost in Grand Slams
    Federer - 20
    Nadal - 23

    Total Sets Lost in Grand Slam Semifinals and Finals

    Federer - 7
    Nadal - 12

    Number of Bagels (6-0 Sets) Delivered in Grand Slams

    Federer - 21
    Nadal - 9

    Number of Bagels (6-0 Sets) Delivered in Grand Slams
    Federer - 7
    Nadal - 1
     
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  2. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

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    unless im misreading something...

    aren't these the same stats.
     
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  3. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    maybe the second stat is GS finals? On top of my head Federer has bageled Hewitt (x2), Baghdatis, Nadal, Nadal has bageled Federer
     
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  4. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    Those are some terrific stats, and they really show off how dominant Federer was during his reign. I especially like the variety of his wins, 3-4-3.

    Although for Nadal, I'm wondering if his 6 French Opens are skewing some of those "wins against top 10" stats. Possibly a lot of the top 10 weren't clay court specialists and didn't get far enough in the draw to reach Nadal. I'm sure some of the statisticians here will confirm or correct me on this.

    21 bagels in Grand Slam matches... incredible...
     
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  5. ...LikeTheWorld

    ...LikeTheWorld New User

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    A Number 1 or 2 can't get a top-10 player before the QF.
     
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  6. Heracles

    Heracles Banned

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    What is impressive from Nadal side is that he had to beat Federer 7 times in his 10 slams won.
     
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  7. PSNELKE

    PSNELKE Legend

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    Wow, he found all the stats in which Fed´s superior to Ralph, good job.

    However I think I´ll give you one that outweighs all of them. - Ralph beat Fed in 7 times in his 10 GS wins.
     
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  8. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    I don't understand why people take the time to compute these type of statistics. Especially ranking, all that matters is how each opponent played on the day.

    For example, Murray is highly ranked, but plays horrible in major finals, so that to me is not a barometer for comparison, and then you can get someone in the top 100, who comes in and plays lights out, well beyond their ranking.

    Other factors include experience, in fact experience can be the biggest measure. Are you playing an experienced player, or someone who's never been there?

    Guess they have to write something.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
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  9. JasonPlaysTennis

    JasonPlaysTennis Banned

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    3, 1 and 0 in 2008 RG, most dominant GS final win over a World No. 1 ever, that's for sure.
     
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  10. nikdom

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    Its not. Its just proof Nadal was lucky that the dominant guy in tennis had a matchup problem with him.

    Otherwise, Nadal should have been beating everyone else Fed was beating and won the rest of the slams too.
     
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  11. Heracles

    Heracles Banned

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    Nadal beat Djokovic 5 times, Murray 3 times, Soderling 5 times if you ask for the other members of the current top 5.

    When Nadal won these slams, he beat everyonelse to get to Federer and to beat him.

    Beating 7 times the guy who has the record of slams won and who was in his primes is an unreal statistics.
     
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  12. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    And how many of those times was it on clay?

    Also, how many of those times Nadal beat Roger did Roger go on to win 2 or more slams for the year?

    If Nadal was indeed that dominant (and not just had a matchup advantage over a Roger who kept showing up at the FO) how come Roger was cleaning up the other slams at that rate?
     
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  13. ...LikeTheWorld

    ...LikeTheWorld New User

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    Compare the opponents in the final
    Federer:
    2003 Wim - Mark Philippoussis (unseeded, 0 GS)
    2004 AO - Marat Safin (unseeded, 2 GS)
    2004 Wim - Andy Roddick (2. Seed, 1 GS)
    2004 USO - Lleyton Hewitt (4. Seed, 2 GS)
    2005 Wim - Andy Roddick (2. Seed, 1 GS)
    2005 USO - Andre Agassi (with 35 years) (7. Seed, 8 GS)
    2006 AO - Marcos Baghdatis (unseeded, 0 GS)
    2006 Wim - Rafael Nadal (2. Seed, 10 Slams)
    2006 USO - Andy Roddick (9. Seed, 1 GS)
    2007 AO - Fernando González (10. Seed, 0 GS)

    Nadal:
    2005 FO - Mariano Puerta (Unseeded, 0 GS)
    2006 FO - Roger Federer (1. Seed, 16 GS)
    2007 FO - Roger Federer (1. Seed, 16 GS)
    2008 FO - Roger Federer (1. Seed, 16 GS)
    2008 Wim - Roger Federer (1. Seed, 16 GS)
    2009 AO - Roger Federer (2. Seed, 16 GS)
    2010 FO - Robin Söderling (5. Seed, 0 GS)
    2010 Wim - Tomáš Berdych (12. Seed, 0 GS)
    2010 USO - Novak Djokovic (3. Seed, 2 GS)
    2011 FO - Roger Federer (3. Seed, 16 GS)


    Fed won against:
    6 non Top-4 players (3 unseeded)
    A 35 year old Agassi
    3 times against Roddick
    8 different players in 10 GS

    Nadal won against:
    3 non Top-4 players (1 unseeded)
    6 times against Federer
    5 different players in 10 GS
     
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  14. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    You forget one very important fact. Nadal has ten majors and he is only 25.
     
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  15. ...LikeTheWorld

    ...LikeTheWorld New User

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    Federer never beat a Number 1 in a GS-final (Nadal 4 times).

    OK, it's hard if you are 280 weeks on top
     
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  16. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    So in 10 slam finals, Nadal beat guys who ended their careers being the winner of 98 slams(equivalent), and Fred beat winners of 25 slams(equivalent).

    Conclusion: Fed faced chumps in slam finals relative to Nadal, who faced champs.

    Nadal gets a LOT of bonus Goat points for dominating Fed in slam finals, and these numbers are why the dominance of Fred in slam finals is a big factor in the GOAT discussion, even if he ends up with less slams than Fred.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
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  17. fundrazer

    fundrazer Hall of Fame

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    Mate, that is a really dumb way to look at things. If you can't figure that out then I can't help your blinded fanboy eyes.
     
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  18. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Gentlemen, let the **** war begin!

    I liked looking at those stats, but I'll be leaving this thread to avoid annoying posters like the ones coming out of the woodwork..

    Carry on, Roger.
     
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  19. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    I get so sick of hearing that. How many of Roger's slams are on HIS best surface? :oops: it goes both ways. One surface isn't better than another.
     
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  20. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Yes, it goes every which way. That is precisely the question..... why wasn't Nadal frequenting Roger on HIS best surface, just like Roger was on Nadal's?

    Huh? huh?
     
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  21. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Uh because Federer is a more dominant tennis player? Why do we have to have this discussion every day all day just bc like 3 Nadaltards act like Federer isn't a better player? You don't have to convince anyone on this board except the 3 retardo's that will never be convinced. No one has been as dominant or successful as Federer, but when Nadal DID get to finals, he always beat Federer with the exception of 2 occasions. 90% of Nadal fans won't argue the point that Federer is the goat. Some of you hardcore Federer fans need to start giving Nadal some credit too. Out of the 4 times they met in a slam OFF clay, Nadal won 2. It's not all about clay.
     
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  22. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    statistics can make one sing.
     
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  23. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Here's how the chips fall down

    1. Roger's best surface is HC and worst is clay

    2. Nadal's best surface is Clay and worst is HC

    3. Roger gets deep into tournaments on Nadal's surface but loses to him.

    4. Nadal rarely ever gets deep enough on Roger's best surface to challenge him.

    5. So by NOT being a real challenge to Roger on HC, Nadal gets to look good with his lopsided H2H
     
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  24. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    Since 2004, how many F, SF, QF has each made in the majors?
     
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  25. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Lmao. It's about the matchup. Had they met, whether it was first round or in the final, Nadal would have won at least half of the matches. The clay H2H between the two is FAR in Nadal's favor, but on HC and Grass there's not a big difference. Nadal can beat Federer more easily on HC and Grass than Federer can on clay. With more matches on HC and Grass the H2H would still be in Rafa's favor. Sorry.
     
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  26. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Roger should be thankful. Otherwise, he'd have fewer HC majors ;)

    We were all hoping for a Nadal/Federer USO final in 2010... however, Federer failed to make the final, losing to Djokovic :cry:
     
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  27. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Thank goodness! A Rafa fan who has NOT lost his mind! More and more of you are falling to the crazy side.. glad to see a strong holdout.
     
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  28. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Now you're talking hypotheticals.

    If Nadal was so good that he COULD beat Federer on HC, why wasn't he in the finals of the 2005 USO, 2006 AO, 2006 USO, 2007 AO, 2007 USO?

    The same years he was dominating the French open.

    You guys keep going to the 2 times he did beat Roger on his favorite surface... that's not the question. The question is why did he not show up more often to challenge him similarly? What was stopping him?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
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  29. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. We have a winner.
    Federer is more dominant overall NO DOUBT about it. The undisputed GOAT imo. But had he met Rafa in more GRAND SLAM FINALS, he'd be missing a few trophies, reguardless of the surface, so I don't think you guys should keep running to bring that up.
     
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  30. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    I keep hearing Rafa is winning at a faster rate than Roger. Can somebody show me pls. thx
     
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  31. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Lol!

    Errr.. Nadal was 19-21 in 2005-07... you can do the math on the other years.

    You (always) conveniently forget that Nadal is 5 years younger than Federer.
     
    #31
  32. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Thanks man, don't worry I know who the GOAT is.

    I just said it's about matchups. Federer is more dominant over the FIELD on HC and Grass, without a doubt. What im saying though is you can't say bc Federer reached more finals that he would beat Nadal had Nadal made said finals.
     
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  33. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    i dont understand. looked up the atp page.

    at the end of 10 yrs on Tour, Rog had 12 slams, and rafa only 9. so how......?
     
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  34. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Why not? Roger was cleaning up those titles. And if Nadal was good enough to beat Roger, why wasn't he even in those finals?

    So you want me to imagine that Nadal magically placed in the finals without having to face those he actually lost to, would beat Roger because of a matchup issue?

    So matchup is not important when Roger is losing to Rafa in the FO finals, but because of matchup, in a hypothetical HC final that Nadal makes, he would win? Gimme a break...
     
    #34
  35. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

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    Of course! Fed was so dominant that if you wanted a GS title, you had to go through him.
    Who do you except Rafa to beat in his 10 GS wins? Murray? Hewitt? Gonzalez?
     
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  36. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    other stats. from 10 yrs on Tour.

    RF - F 14, SF 16, QF 16

    RN - F 12, SF 15, QF 16

    so they are pretty close, no way is rafa 'much' faster than rog.
     
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  37. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    RF did not win till 6th yr on tour
    RN did not win till 5th yr on tour
     
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  38. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Uh who said that? Their entire H2H is based on a matchup no? And im only turning YOUR logic against you. YOU'RE the one saying Rafa didn't get to the finals and BECAUSE OF THAT the H2H is skewed. So by that logic, yes, if we put Rafa in the finals of more HC matches and slams, you're telling me you'd put your mortgage on Federer beating Nadal? :confused: I have no problem admitting Federer is a better player overall, but even I wouldn't do that.
     
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  39. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    I used data from ATPtennis.com

    2010 is RN 10th yr
    2007 was RF 10th
     
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  40. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    2011 isn't over yet ;)

    And Rafa has 10 GS's not 9

    - - -

    The bottom line is they are very close in their rate of racking up slams.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
    #40
  41. PSNELKE

    PSNELKE Legend

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    You dot get the point. How many times did Fed beat Ralph in a GS final??
    Compare this to Ralph and how many times he beat Fed.
     
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  42. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Yes, but the matchup includes the characteristics of the surface. Fed's BH doesn't match up well with Nadal's FH on a high-bouncing surface. The same Fed who lost to Nadal at the FO faced Nadal on a fast indoor court in the year end masters and beat him easily. (2006 shanghai if I'm not incorrect)


    I respect Nadal's achievements. Even outside of his H2H with Roger, Nadal has become an all-around champ. I have no problem if folks want Nadal to be appreciated for what he has done. He deserves it. But when the H2H is used to belittle Roger's achievements, that's when I think its being used unfairly as a sole yardstick of Roger's greatness or lack of it.
     
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  43. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    i changed it. my mistake. 2010 was 10th yr. and it was 9.
     
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  44. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Nobody is belittling Federer's achievements. We're merely pointing out that he's not the GOAT since he's not even the greatest in his era :)

    Nadal owns Federer in and out of slams and always has. Federer has never had a positive H2H against Nadal on tour or in slams ;)
     
    #44
  45. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    That I can agree with, and don't even get why so many commentators and analysts are using it. It's really stupid actually. It's like everytime he loses to Rafa his achievements matter less and less. They are like OH MY, Rafa is really closing in now, etc etc. I watched the end of the AO-2009 yesterday and when it was over the commentators and analysts were REALLY laying into Federer about the whole Nadal thing, and I didn't get it at all.
     
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  46. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    All I can wish for is that you guys get the same medicine you are doling out today.

    Somewhere, somehow I hope when Nadal is at the twilight of his career, he gets thumped around by Djokovic or whoever else, ends up with a bad H2H, and you guys get the same disrespect from Djoker fans that you're doling out now.

    ;)

    Enjoy it while it lasts...
     
    #46
  47. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Lol! Don't be like that :)

    The bottom line is nobody is arrogantly and constantly spouting off about Nadal being some GOAT while completely discounting reality and past champions' achievements.

    If Nadal passes Federer he will still not be the GOAT since Federer is not the GOAT.

    - - -

    Want another reality check??

    Federer has a negative H2H against 21 other players versus 5 for Nadal ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
    #47
  48. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    Summary - First 10 Yrs on Tour

    Turned Pro - RF 1998, RN 2001

    RF - W 12, F 14, SF 16, QF 16

    RN - W 9, F 12, SF 15, QF 16

    Summary - First 11.5 Yrs on Tour (Present Day)

    RF - W 12, F 15, SF 18, QF 18

    RN - W 10, F 13, SF 16, QF 18

    Not too different, with Rog slightly ahead.
     
    #48
  49. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    This is not about GOAT.

    You have to give respect to Roger for his 16 GS titles and the way he achieved them. If it doesn't mean GOAT for you, that's fine... but accept that it is a remarkable achievement that has its merits.

    Same way you will want respect for Nadal's achievements at the end of his career, whether or not he passes 16.

    The GOAT debate is useless. You can find some flaw or the other in every GOAT candidate. There is never going to be a 'perfect' GOAT who never lost to anyone.
     
    #49
  50. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Nadal played 1 match on tour in 2002... and no GS matches

    Why are you stating he started in 2001?

    - -

    Nadal started playing GS matches in 2003
    Federer started playing GS matches in 1999

    At the very least, use accurate information
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
    #50

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