Congratulations Sou Cal 3.5 Men !!!

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Backboard, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. Backboard

    Backboard New User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    68
    Well done guys! Let the whiners whine and the complainers complain. You had a wonderful season and you should be very proud.

    The cries of "cheating" on this site are largely from ignorant individuals who have never been successful at anything in thier lives. You played by the rules, you played fair and you earned your championship.

    I hope you have a successful season in 2008!
     
    #1
  2. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,918
    Next are you going to congradulate the imfamous No Cal team that everyone talks about? (the one with the players who misrepresented themselves?)

    Give it a rest already. If someone wants to feel good about themselves, and they dont feel they have done anything wrong, then there is no need for your silly multiple postings to point it out.

    The fact is other people can feel however they want to feel about them. They probally are sandbaggers (I know the 4th place team that will even admit that they sandbagged).

    There are plenty of things you can do within the rules that others may think less of you for, (a lot of which we argue about on this board) get over it.....

    If someone cant get over it, and they constantly have to cry and whine that others are not seeing them how they want to be seen, that just leads me to believe that they have some guilt or some low self esteem about it themselves. Because a grownup would just ignore it.

    Also if you were to make the point that every player who wins a match is not a sandbagger, I would agree with you. But to point out the extreme cases (championship teams with tons of players clearly out of level) is a waste of time, although your team probally is one of them.
     
    #2
  3. Backboard

    Backboard New User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    68
    Most likely Sou CAL did nothing wrong and a bunch of losers are calling them cheaters. And what good does it do? The complainers need to chill.
     
    #3
  4. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    If you're team was really on the up and up as you say - you shouldn't need to defend yourself so much. All this posting by you only makes you look more guilty of the very thing you're trying to defend yourself on. For the record, I haven't complained once about sandbagging - it's just a part of USTA league tennis that I accept is going to happen and there is not much you can do about it.

    I'm sure you had a good time winning and it means a lot to you. Just enjoy it and let it go.
     
    #4
  5. Backboard

    Backboard New User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    68

    Fe,

    I never said you were a complained but there are a lot of them out there and they blog. And frankingly I do not care how my comments may look to some.

    Someone has to challenge all the whiners and complainers that so frequently post their comments.
     
    #5
  6. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    I don't see that much whining and complaing about it, just people frustrated with a system that isn't working.

    I believe we all want a system that discourages people from stacking teams of people that are clearly out of level - but that is going to be difficult to do.

    Some suggested changes that might help:

    1.) Limit number of self-rated players on a given team (maybe 4 max?) - should possibly include 'M' and 'T' ratings too.
    2.) Increase number of played match requirement for post season play (currently at 2 here) to 3 or 4 matches.
    3.) Standardize team size across country
    4.) Bring verifiers back to district and sectional tourneys

    Anyone have any other ideas that would help? Nothing perfect here.
     
    #6
  7. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,918
    You seem to want to focus on the whiners and the complainers, but what about those who are just plain making fun of you?

    We should get our moment in the sun as well. :)

    If you fill your team full of self rated players and you win the National Championship then you are going to get made fun of for sandbagging. Get used to it.

    But like I said, you can feel however you want to feel about it. You're doing as much whining as anyone else around here.

    On Sundays at my club, we have a junior/HS/Adult Challenge ladder. It has a total of 200 players in it, and to make the players feel better about themselves, rather than have one giant list of people, the guy that runs it, splits it up into 8 divisions of 25 people. That way if someone just by chance happens to be on the top of a page, they can feel good about themselves, even if they are in reality number 175 on the list.

    That's about what the NTRP Championships are like, they split it up into levels so if you happen to be at the right place at the right time, you can feel good about yourself. Enjoy!!

    There are probally a zillion players out there with average winning records who are way better tennis players than you, they just dont happen to be playing in 3.0.

    My feeling is that teams like yours should just skip the local leagues altogether, and they should just have a special championship just for you. I couldnt care less what happens there, but it's annoying when a team polutes the local league (which is what most people sign up for), just for something that happens over a few weekends at the end of the year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2008
    #7
  8. CityHeightsTennis

    CityHeightsTennis Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    372
    congrats! :) that is good to hear...:)
     
    #8
  9. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    Yes! Yes! Yippee Yippee :roll::roll:
     
    #9
  10. Backboard

    Backboard New User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    68
    fe6250,

    I agree with all four of your suggestions. And if self-rated players are the big problem, let's make them wait until their second year to play in the post season. We just have to have the same rules for everyone.

    However, I'm convinced if we had NO self-rated players whatsoever, the complainers would still whine when their team got beat. And many of them would blog on this message board.

    I do NOT agree that the system is not working. I think it is working very well and abuses are few and far between. The people that say level 3.0 is just FULL of 3.5 players; level 3.5 is just FULL of 4.0 players, etc are flat out wrong. (I'm not criticizing you but some peopel believe that.) Their "personal yardstick" for evaluating players is simply not consistent with the USTA.

    It does not matter how I define a 3.5 player and it does not matter how YOU define a 3.5 player. What matters is how the USTA defines a 3.5 player. Through their process and practices they have defined that pretty clearly over the past 10 - 15 years.

    For example, the level of play at this year's 3.0 Nationals was very similar to the level of play at 3.0 Nationals 10 years ago _ when the USTA made extensive use of paid verifers. In fact, if anything, the level of play this year was probably a little lower than 10 years ago. If the USTA employed verifiers this year, the same players and same teams would have ended up playing at Nationals _ because that's the performance level that the USTA has established (over many years) for 3.0 players.

    The majority (not all) of matches at Nationals are very competitive. So are the majority of Sectional matches. Lopsided matches are much more common in the various local leagues. So there is a good deal of consistency in players playing at certain levels across the country. Some people think the levels should be different. But IT IS WHAT IT IS. It is largely competitive and fair across the country.
     
    #10
  11. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,918
    Actually when it comes to the players who make it to the sectionals and the nationals, the idea that 3.0 is full of 3.5 players, 3.5 is full of 4.0, etc.... IS CONSISTANT WITH THE LEAGUE.

    The fact that most of those self rated players get bumped up at year end attests to that. When you get bumped up, that means you were playing beyond your level in that season.

    And when it comes to the people who appeal down year after year after year, the league does reconize that they have moved up to the next level, the league just happens to move them down as well.

    You are right, if they get rid of appeals, and they continue to improve the self rating system to keep teams from overloading their rosters with over-rated players, there are still going to be players who complain about sandbagging.

    But they are who they are, there isnt any point crying about it. The only reason that someone would have to cry about that is if they feel guilty or they feel they have to justify something they did, otherwise they would of let it go.

    The level is down at nationals because the current system is probally more effective then the old system. (which was horrible)

    But it's still above level.

    The 4th place team in 3.5 will freely admit that, this year rather than get 4.0 players for their 3.5 team, they went out and tryed to find 4.5 players because they knew that they wouldnt even make it out of their section otherwise.

    (and they didnt even win at nationals, they only took 4th)

    Now you may be right in one way.

    When you have thousands of teams and they all playoff to the final two teams, it may be mathmatically impossible that the winner is going to be in level no matter what the system is.

    But depending on one's methods that doesnt mean that we are not going to make fun of them for some of the extremes they go thru to get to that point. (recruiting above level players, appealing constantly, etc....)

    If the league wants people to have even more fun, they should split the league up into even more levels.

    I feel that of all the people between 3.13 and 3.18, I am the very best, too bad there isnt a national championship for that.

    (Congradulations 3.18 National Champions!!!!!)
     
    #11
  12. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    I salute and pay homage to your greatness oh 3.18 champion. Will you split the check with me? I promise not to whine or call you a sandbagger if you will only split your winnings with me. :razz:
     
    #12
  13. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,918
    I'll let you keep the pen cap. :)
     
    #13
  14. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    Sweet!!! I can't begin to tell you what this means to me!
     
    #14
  15. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    Finally! We agree on something. A good start. :)

    Someone will always complain about anything. I don't see anyone blogging about much on here except you, so I'm not sure where all the 'noise' is coming from that you are concerned about.

    No disrespect, but what is your opinion based on here? The USTA continues to modify its definitions of each rating level and has changed its policies from time to time over that period. While I believe they are trying hard and for the most part do a good job - it's far from a perfect system.

    Case in point - when we won state a few years back in the 3.0 level, when we got to sectionals we were pretty competitive with 2 of the 5 teams in our flight. We then got beat soundly 4 -1 by a team that had a former teaching pro and 2 former NCAA athletes on the team (they came in second in our flight). We then got torched 5-0 (no sets won) by the other team who brought in people to sectionals who had only played twice during the year (they both suspiciously lost 1 of those matches too). This team then got beat soundly 4-1 by the team that won sectionals. The team that won our sectional got beat soundly at Nationals.

    We never whined about it, but clearly there were some huge differences in the teams at the local, district, sectional, and national levels. A sectional USTA person watching our 5-0 pounding by our flight leader pointed out 2 players on that team that would have been DQ'd had there been verifiers at the match to some of our fans during the match.

    The point is that there isn't a clear standard across the nation and there continues to be a huge difference between the local league play and that at sectionals and nationals. I personally don't care about going to sectionals or nationals - so I won't lose any sleep over it. I just can't get over how you feel a need to defend this as the reality is very few teams can even make it to nationals without pushing the rule limits.

    Just own up to the fact that you guys found a way to win and be proud of it. But all this whiner talk is tiresome and frankly you don't have a strong case.

    BTW - a 5.0 can beat a 3.0 6-0, 6-0 too - not sure that means that one is a high ranking 3.0.
     
    #15
  16. Backboard

    Backboard New User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    68

    City Heights,

    We can't let the whiners be the only ones posting messages. Most of them are upset because they got beat and complaining makes them feel better.
     
    #16
  17. Backboard

    Backboard New User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    68
    Fe6250,

    I do appreciate your opinion. But I think that MOST matches at Nationals are very competitive and most Sectional matches are competitve as well. So from my perspective, I do see quite a bit of consistency across the country. I do agree that there are a lot of lopsided matches at the local level and maybe some districts as well.

    But here is my point. The guys playing level 3.0 Nationals in 2007 are fairly consisent with the level of play at 3.0 Nationals 10 years ago. And, if anything, the 2007 teams were a little weaker than in past years. You and I do not define what level of performance is acceptable for 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 or whatever. The USTA does that. The USTA has established a standard of play that is acceptable for each level and people are playing to that level. This was initially done by USTA verifiers who were paid by the USTA to keep ensure people played at the correct level. I think a lot of people have a misconception about what performance is acceptable at various levels. Saying that another way . . . IF there were USTA verifiers at Districts & Sectionals in 2007 the SAME teams and the SAME players would have played at Nationals. National verifiers would not have DQed any of them. That is certainly true based on what we have seen in the past.

    Anyone that wants to see what level of play is acceptable at a specific level should try to attend one of the National events. I attended one one vacation a few years back even though the team I was on had lost badly in the local league. It is just good to see as a reference point. Another option is watching your Sectional finals. I've watched every Texas Sectional event for over 10 years. It does give you a different perspective. The level of acceptable play has been established by the USTA and you cannot blame players for playing at that level. (When I get some time I'm going to say more about that.)

    I do think the USTA is trying to re-define the perfomance levels down because I noticed MANY more DQed players in 2007. The team I was on would not have made it to Nationals except for a very large number of 3.0 DQed players in Texas. One team at the 3.0 Sectionals had THREE players DQed and another TWO players DQed and a lot of one player DQs across the board.
     
    #17
  18. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,918
    does complaining make you feel better?

    You're complaining about people who are complaining, do you realize that or not?

    Ever heard of "sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me"???
     
    #18
  19. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    I'm sure you felt all the matches at national were competitive as you guys won! The inconsistency happens long before it gets to nationals.
     
    #19
  20. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,918
    Very good point.

    That's always my point about nationals and why it's no better than how my club splits up a challenge ladder into 8 different divisions just so more people can feel good about themselves.

    Any good teaching pro would concur that especially at the lower levels the teams that make it to nationals are far and away from the levels that they really represent, and most of the players in the local leagues (which even backboard is admiting is competitive across the board), are really at that level.

    But I see the 5% or less who win complain all the time about the other 95% being (rated too high), it's silly.

    Again maybe when you have thousands of teams, this is going to occur no matter what you do, but it does ruin a lot of the local leagues where you have an entire team of people who are NOT competitive with the rest of their league.

    And because most of us sign up for the local league (which can occur every week for months) as opposed to somethign that only happens on a few weekends, it's bad for the league when you have a few certain teams that are totally not competitive with the rest of the local league.
     
    #20
  21. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    NC
    Hey - every once in awhile even us blind squirrels find a nut or two!:)
     
    #21
  22. acurahand

    acurahand New User

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    backboard,
    Are you one of the socal guy's boyfriend or something? because all your post sound like you are an ass sucker. People pointed out their point of view for a reason, not complaining oe whining. Socal singles are way out of level and they know it.
     
    #22
  23. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    4,405
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Only 3.5 players care about a 3.5 team.
     
    #23
  24. Applesauceman

    Applesauceman Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Another post?! Some congratulations are in order!

    So has everyone congratulated you to your hearts content? Let congratulate the winners, congratulate the losers, congratulate the sandbaggers, congratulate the self-raters, congratulate sportsmanship, and most of all let's congratulate the USTA for putting up with all of our ****. Grace and peace to us all.
     
    #24

Share This Page