Connors v Borg 1978 and the no.1 ranking

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Xavier G, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    OK but anyhow, it is very similar.Slow courts US tour is OK?
     
  2. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    I wanted to go back to 1978 with a new thread then I found this ...

    Month after month I try to rebuild one of the years where two top players were much better than others.

    I did not find the exact steps of the ATP rankings, will try to tested a score based on the prize money (ie 225,000 = 225 points).

    He had just finished the Masters Grand Prix with Connors all'ultmo game had beaten Borg.
    The Masters is finished in January 1978 but is a matter for 1977.

    The first great tournament was Birmingham WCT, and the Borg wins on Stockton.

    Borg and Connors met on har tru in Boca Raton, a exhibiton 4draws that computes as ATP title and to which, however, did not give points for the ranking (not giving any points even at the Masters Grand Prix, the Masters WCT, the WCT Challenge Cup, the Tournament of Champions WCT).
    Borg beat Connors 6-1 to 3th set.

    The month ends with the US Pro Indoor in Philadelphia.
    Tanner beats Borg in the quarterfinals.
    Connors won the final 3-0 on Tanner.

    To Richmond Borg retires in the quarterfinals against Newcombe ( 0-6 0-1 )

    January
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 225 points (Philadelphia 225,000)
    Borg 175 points (Birmingham 175,000)

    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton (250 points - 250,000)
    Connors 225 + 170 (Boca Raton Final) = 395
    Borg 175 + 250 = 425
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  3. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    In February, Connors wins at Denver ( WCT ) but especially in the US National Indoor Memphis .

    Borg does not play in February .

    February
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 575 points (225 + 125 Denver + 225 Memphis)
    Borg 175 points

    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton
    Connors 745 (395 + 125 + 225)
    Borg 425
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  4. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    n March , Borg won the rich ( 200,000 ) WCT Tournament of Champions in Las Vegas ( where Connors is disintegrated by Borowiak ) and to Milan ( 175,000 )

    Connors does not play other tournaments .


    March
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 575 points ( 225 + 125 + 225 Denver Memphis )
    Borg points 175 + 175 = 350 points

    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton + Tournament of Champions
    Connors 745
    Borg 425 + 200 + 175 = 800
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  5. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    In April , Borg and Connors find themselves to ABN Rotterdam ( 175,000 ) but the Swede retires against Nastase .
    Connors wins the tournament .

    Connors then lost by Pfister to Alan King Classic ( Las Vegas )

    April
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 750 ( 575 + 175 points Rotterdam )
    Borg 350 points

    ASSUMPTION ATP + Boca Raton + Tournament of Champions
    Connors 745 + 175 = 920
    Borg 800
     
  6. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    In May , Connors rests.
    The American did not participate in the Masters WCT and skip the season on European clay .

    Borg retires in the semifinals in Dallas ( Masters WCT ) against Gerulaitis .
    But he wins on clay in the final Rome on 5th over Panatta and dominates at Rolland Garros .

    May
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 750
    Borg points 350 + 150 + 300 = 800

    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton + Tournament of Champions
    Connors 920
    Borg 800 + 150 + 300 = 1250

    Clarification .
    The calculations made with the Prize Money is not perfect because while the ranking including Boca Raton and TofChampions is correct ( with Borg 1th),the ranking that excludes the two tournaments always sees 1th Bjorn when instead remember well that Connors was still 1th despite victory svede of Paris .
    Borg passed the American after the triumph at Wimbledon .
     
  7. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    Before analyzing July ( tomorrow , maybe .. )I stop for a moment on special events .
    Connors was famous for exhibitions but in the 70s Borg made many more .
    In 1978 Borg also won eight tournaments no-ATP with 4draws and 1 with 8draws .
    Connors won instead 1 tournament with 4 draws , 2 with 8 draws, and a famous tournament 32draws ( the Kentish Open in Beckenham ) but with a bad seed , apart the finalist ( Stan Smith ) .

    In these special events the two players faced each other two times .
    In final to Tokyo (Suntory Cup) Borg outclasses Connors .
    In September , in Buenos Aires the American takes his revenge in the third set.
    Both events are indoors .
     
  8. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    In June - July , Connors played very strong on grass , winning a good appointment in Birmingham ( 125.000 ) and reached the final at Wimbledon but Borg beat him easily .
    Borg has reached its peak for the first time .
    Perhaps only Laver in 1969 , and later McEnroe , Federer and Djokovic in the Open Era have reached such a state of form / strength .

    June - July
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 750 + 125 ( Birmingham ) + 210 ( Wimbledon final ) = 1085
    Borg points 800 + 300 ( Wimbledon ) = 1100


    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton + Tournament of Champions
    Connors 920 + 125 + 210 = 1255
    Borg 1250 + 300 = 1550

    If you consider only the events to which ATP assigns points Borg 1th with a few points .
    If you enter Boca Raton + TofCH , Borg takes off .
     
  9. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    Summer
    Borg digress a bit and returned to Flushing Meadows .
    Connors trying to catch up and "hammering like a blacksmith" throughout the summer : he won the two most important events of har tru ( Washington & Indianapolis , both 175.0000 ) , then at the US Open in a step back from the brink against Panatta , "rings a strip" beating Gottfried , McEnroe and Borg in the finals .

    June - July
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 1085 + 175 (Washington) + 175 (Indy) + 75 (Stowe) + 300 (US Open)= 1800
    Borg points 1100 + 75 (Baastad) + 210 (final US Open) = 1385

    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton + Tournament of Champions
    Connors 1255 + 175 + 175 + 75 + 300 = 1980
    Borg 1550 + 75 + 210 = 1835
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  10. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    The last months of 1978

    Connors plays :
    - Sidney ( 175,000 ) and wins the title
    - Tokyo and lost by Teacher
    - Masters Grand Prix and retired with McEnroe and Ashe to blisters in the foot .

    Borg plays :
    - San Francisco losing to Pattison
    - Tokyo ( 200,000 ) and wins the title
    - Stockholm , McEnroe lost to the semifinals .

    31.12.1978
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 1800 + 175 (Sidney)= 1985
    Borg points 1385 + 200 (Tokyo)= 1585

    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton + Tournament of Champions
    Connors 1980 + 175 = 2155
    Borg 1835 + 200 = 2035
     
  11. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    My final comments:

    1) IMO number one 1978 is Borg, although the numbers are from the American.
    2) for the ATP ranking is not battle, the gap is unobtrusive because it does not take count of Boca Raton and Tournament of Ch., Also the data points in tournaments like Memphis and Philadelphia are close to slam tournaments.
    3) also adding the hypothetical points of Boca Raton and T. of CH. won by Borg, Connors is ahead even if only slightly.
    The difference is perhaps Birmingham & Denver, two tournaments type master 500.
    4)
    Borg loses with:
    Connors, Tanner, Pattison, McEnroe.
    Then he suffers 3 retreats: Newcombe, Nastase and Gerulaitis

    Connors loses twice with Borg, once with Borowiak, Teacher and Pfister.
    Then he retreats against McEnroe and Ashe.

    5) The difference IMO at the end is only the Pepsi Boca Raton.
    If we counts this, if we considers it or not it depends on the allocation of the number one.

    6) I decide to consider, and although the numbers are, albeit slightly, in favor of the American, at the end I choose Borg number one.
     
  12. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    Assign the number one at the end of year is a big deal .
    Not being a tournament where one raises a cup after winning the final , the year-end number one only lately is clear .
    Now it is clear why all the tournaments , I mean everyone , are taken into account .
    In times past the ranking she did not consider important exhibitions , great tournaments 4draws , big not ATP tournaments and above basic events like Masters and Grand Prix Masters WCT and WCT Challenge Cup Tournament of Champions !!
     
  13. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    There are many ways to make a year-end rankings :
    1 ) there is supposed there is stronger in that year regardless of the results
    2 ) apply only slam (2000 points to slam / zero to other events )
    3 ) apply only almost slam , and other major events are dwarfed, downpalyed (2000 points to slam / 500 other events )
    4 ) scoring system current ATP : 2000 points to slam / 1000 to other major tournaments
    5 ) scoring system ATP 70s : 2000 points to slam / 1500 to other important events
    6 ) systems 3 ) , 4 ) , 5 ) are added tournaments ATP recognizes ( Masters Grand Prix , Masters WCT Challenge Cup WCT Tournament of Champions , Pepsi Boca Raton )
    7 ) system 7 ) add up no- ATP events of particular rievanza .

    IMO systems 1 ) and 2 ) are just imbeciles, 3 ) is unintelligent.
    Among others I choose the number 7 ) .
    With the system 7 ) Borg 1th slightly on Connors in 1978 .
     
  14. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    I understand why my does not add up with Borg 1th slightly .

    The problem is to give a score to the finals .

    I took the ATP ( then in the finalist USE & W takes 210 and 170 in Boca Raton in proportion ) .
    Instead for me :
    - The finalists of the slam should take a score low ... 60
    - The finalist of Boca Raton ( 4draws ) ... zero points .

    In this way....

    31.12.1978
    ASSUMPTIONS ATP
    Connors 1835
    Borg points 1435

    ASSUMPTIONS ATP + Boca Raton + Tournament of Champions
    Borg 1885
    Connors 1835
     
  15. eldanger25

    eldanger25 Professional

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    1978 really was one of the great seasons of the Open Era. Connors's last peak year across surfaces, arguably Borg's first (I'm pretty sure that Tournament of Champions win in Las Vegas was his first career title on outdoor hard), with both men over 90 percent win-loss record, which I don't think has ever happened since.

    Plus you had 19 y/o Mac crashing the party, winning his quarter at the Open and then going on a hell of a run during the fall indoor season.
     
  16. WCT

    WCT Rookie

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    Couple surface corrections. Buenos Aires was outdoors on what looked like hard court. Some points are, or were, up on youtube. Las Vegas, I mean the tournament of champions, was indoors. It was one of those syndicated WCT events. I mean taped to be shown weekly over several months and syndicated by WCT. Jeff Borowiak upset Connors there. Killed him. The Alan King was the Vegas tourney that was hard court.
     

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