Could Djokovic hypothetically become a Tier 1 great?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by kragster, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Where I define Tier 1 as Federer/Laver/Sampras, Tier 2 as Borg/Nadal and Tier 3 as Agassi/Connors/Lendl etc.

    I wanted to create a scenario which is a stretch but still not out of reach (for example 17 slams is completely out of reach). Just for the sake of playing the game, let's say Djokovic ends up with the following record:

    12 slams
    175 weeks at no 1 (5th best)
    4 consecutive year end no 1s (2011-2014)
    Only player to win all masters events
    Master Titles leader
    Career Slam
    3-4 WTF
    80% + W-L record
    Leading H2H vs 3 biggest rivals - Fed/Nadal/Murray

    Would Djoker be considered a Tier 1 great in this scenario? When people have their GOAT debates, would his name be in the pool?
     
    #1
  2. djokovic2008

    djokovic2008 Hall of Fame

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    Yes but he will get more than 12 slams so what then.
     
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  3. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    I think with 13 or more slams he'll take his seat at the table.
     
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  4. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Tier 1: Federer, Sampras, Borg, Nadal, Laver

    Tier 2: Emerson, Possibly Djokovic(10 slams), Agassi, Rosewall, McEnroe, Connors, Lendl

    Tier 3: Becker, Edberg, Djokovic right now, Willander, Courier

    Tier 4: Roddick, Chang, Hewitt, Ivanisevic, Rafter, Muster, Del Potro

    Tier 5: Tsonga, Monfils, Rudeski, Haas, Berdych, all slam finalists or mutlple semifinalists

    Tier 6:

    Tier 7: Murray
     
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  5. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Lol, whats with the Murray hate.

    Also I think Borg and Rafa are awesome, but not Tier 1 - it's Borg's fault for retiring early and Rafa needs to win 1 more non FO slam IMO to be Tier 1.
     
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  6. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    yes, that would be a pretty impressive resume. hypothetically tier 1 worthy.

    he can potentially achieve more. with the way playing conditions have changed, and with federer and nadal's decline, he has the biggest chance of achieving a CYGS out of anyone on tour. he isnt a shoe in, but there is a real chance.
     
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  7. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    if Sampras with 3 slams less can be in the same tier as Federer, why not Nadal, who is 3 slams lesser than Sampras? Sampras pretty much has nothing over Federer; Nadal has a few things over Sampras, and Sampras a few over Nadal, so they very well could be in tier II.

    Tier I: Federer, Laver
    Tier II: Sampras, Nadal, Borg <Djoker, if he meets your scenario>
    Tier III: Lendl, et. al.
     
    #7
  8. Hodgey20

    Hodgey20 Rookie

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    Yes djoko could easily become a tier 1 if he continues his success he has had recently.
     
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  9. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Recently, he's only won the Australian Open. If he keeps that up, he'll be lucky to get to 10 Grand Slams. To become a tier 1 GOAT, he'll need more than 12 Slams.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
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  10. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Fair enough although I would create it like this then:

    Tier 0:Fed/Laver
    Tier 1: Sampras
    Tier 2: Borg/Nadal/ Djoker potential
    Tier 3: Lendl et all/ Djoker likely
     
    #10
  11. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Tier 1 Open Era is Fed/Sampras/Borg/Nadal.

    Djokovic is still some way short of the achievements of these guys, he could break into this group but I think he may fall a bit short. Let's not forget it was only in his annis mirabilis of 2011 that he won a slam outside of Melbourne.
     
    #11
  12. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Where Djokovic stands right now in open era:

    TITLES:
    1- Connors: 109
    2- Lendl: 94
    3- McEnroe: 77
    4- Federer: 76
    5- Borg/Sampras: 64
    7- Vilas: 62
    8- Nastase: 61
    9- Agassi: 60
    10- Laver: 54
    11- Nadal: 50
    12- Becker: 49
    13- Muster: 44
    14- Edberg: 42
    15- Smith: 38
    16- Djokovic: 35

    SLAMS:
    1- Federer: 17
    2- Sampras: 14
    3- Nadal/Borg: 11
    5- Lendl: 8 ( + 11 finals)
    6- Agassi/Connors: 8 (+ 7 finals)
    8- Wilander/McEnroe: 7
    10- Edberg: 6 (+ 5 finals)
    11- Djokovic/Becker: 6 (+ 4 finals)

    MASTERS:
    1- Lendl: 22
    2- Federer: 21 (+ 12 finals)
    3- Nadal: 21 (+ 10 F)
    4- McEnroe: 19
    5- Connors: 17 (+ 12 F)
    6- Agassi: 17 (+ 6 F)
    7- Borg: 15
    8- Djokovic: 13 (+ 10 F)
    9- Becker: 13 (+ 8 F)

    WTF:
    1- Federer: 6T + 2F
    2- Lendl: 5T + 4F
    3- Sampras: 5T + 1F
    4- Nastase: 4T + 1F
    5- Becker: 3T + 5F
    6- McEnroe: 3T + 1F
    7- Borg: 2T + 2F
    8- Hewitt: 2T + 1F
    9- Djokovic: 2T

    #1 RANKING:
    1- Federer: 302 weeks
    2- Sampras: 286
    3- Lendl: 270
    4- Connors: 268
    5- McEnroe: 170
    6- Borg: 109
    7- Nadal: 102
    8- Agassi: 101
    9- Hewitt: 80
    10- Edberg: 72
    11- Djokovic: 66

    Still a little work but getting there. Way ahead of Murray for instance :twisted:
     
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  13. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Federer is a beast.
     
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  14. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    He sure is: a record beast.
     
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  15. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    That's a way of putting it. Another way would be, "Title beast, Slam beast, Masters beast, WTF beast, and #1 beast."
     
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  16. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    The title beast is still Connors and the master beast is Lendl.
     
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  17. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, Federer is not going to beat Connors in titles, that's for sure


    He can takeover Lendl though. So can Nadal.
     
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  18. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    There doesn't have to be just 1 beast per category. There's room for more :)
     
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  19. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Good. The more beasts the merrier :)
     
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  20. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    Djokovic would be considered the new Emerson because his achievements happened due to no competition from ******* and Oldal.:oops:

    Emerson won 12 slams but nobody considers him a Tier 1 great. It's not just about winning many slams but facing competition that is not unexisting/washed up/over the hill/etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
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  21. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    When it comes to Tier 1 , Fed is all alone there.

    Any one else can come into tier 1 when they have

    5 + YEC,
    300 + weeks at No 1 ,
    16+ majors ,
    career slam,
    20 + masters,
    multiple wins at at least 3 majors.

    Djokovic will have to wipe Fed's feet to get these credentials ...
     
    #21
  22. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    No one could argue Nadal is a WTF beast though ;-)
     
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  23. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Agreed, Federer is in a tier of his own. Tier 0, perhaps? :) Djokovic can get to tier 1 which has Sampras, Borg and will have Nadal in the near future.
     
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  24. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    P of B: No but he's a slam beast and a master beast (and an Olympic beast of course). All good ;-)
     
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  25. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    So is Federer. He's "beastier" than Nadal in all those respects :)
     
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  26. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Hey, there's room enough for 3 beasts!
     
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  27. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Sure is, my friend. We're in the era of beasts! :)
     
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  28. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Strange how people on here just throw out silly figures regarding how many Slams so and so will win. :lol:
    Djokovic has had nowhere near as much success anywhere else as he's had in Australia and yet people are claiming he'll win RG several times, he'll win more Wimbledons, more US Opens, etc and can win 12-13 Slams or more. :lol: :lol: He's lost 3 Slams to 3 different players on 3 different surfaces in 2012 and is heading for age 26, all the while relying completely on his movement and ability to stretch and contort his body to defend shots. Everybody in tennis gets old and there is always a new stretch of guys who start to step up. Djokovic might have 2013 at best to get another Slam before things start to really get tough just like they did with every other player on the tour including Nadal and Federer when they hit their late 20s.
     
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  29. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    that's a good point. murray still possesses a big problem for djokovic, and will probably be his biggest threat in the future. i wonder how people would feel if he did indeed win the CYGS in today's cilmate. would the feat be just as heralded as one of laver's or would it be diminished? would it give him a meteoric bump up in the history books?

    edit: by climate i mean mostly playing conditions
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
    #29
  30. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    Where is Vilas ??
     
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  31. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Is Pancho Gonzales in Tier 8? 10? 15?
     
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  32. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    It would give him a bump up in the history books but if he didn't have to face Nadal at the French, many would still consider him below Federer. Because Federer would have won the CYGS twice in a row if it weren't for Nadal in 06 and 07.
     
    #32
  33. xan

    xan Professional

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    that's if. 'ifs' have no weight what so ever.
     
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  34. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    12 slams is only good enough to be Tier 2, btw.
     
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  35. Goosehead

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    LOL WUT..rusedski in 'tier 4' :shock:..1 major final a couple of qf and 1 masters..and you got him above murray whos got 1 major 5 finals, multiple qf/sf and 8 masters :confused:..or are you trolling :)
     
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  36. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    It depends if modern medicine can hide his EPOS
     
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  37. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    Here is the thing though...Who are these young players who are going to challenge him?

    People like to talk about the weak pre-Nadal Federer area, but Ferrer, who is the same age as Federer, was a nobody then, and for the next few years, but none of today's non-top 4 players can stop his old *ss from making it to semis.

    Nadal's body is wearing out. Federer is nowhere near his prime, and although might continue challenging Djokovic on Wimbledon (and possibly US Open, but that is assuming Fed even makes it to Novak in the USO), he is unlikely to be winning much against him.

    The only possibility is Murray, but seriously, Federer took Murray to a 5th set on what is his weakest slam surface (excepting Nadal in the FO), and Djokovic, once he shook off the rust, just crushed him.

    I think Murray might challenge Novak on Wimbledon, but I believe USO (2012 was a lightning strike for Murray, what with an extra day, and ridiculous windy conditions), AusOpen, and FO (if Nadal isnt playing) are Novak's slams to lose for the next 3-4 years.

    And there appear to be no young uns who can challenge him for the next 3-4 years (again, until an old Ferrer cannot be dislodged from the top 5 ranks, I will have literally no respect for the "young uns").
     
    #37
  38. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    He's clearly kidding about Murray...
     
    #38
  39. powerangle

    powerangle Legend

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    If he had the credentials you listed, he would barely make it to the bottom of Tier 1, based on your own setup. However, Federer would still (and should, imo) be in a tier of his own.

    Because:

    12 slams ..........lacking by a good margin
    175 weeks at no 1 (5th best) ..........lacking by a good margin
    4 consecutive year end no 1s (2011-2014) ..........good but still a bit short
    Only player to win all masters events ..........nice footnote, something special
    Master Titles leader ..........nice footnote
    Career Slam ..........great, but a few others have done this
    3-4 WTF ..........somewhat lacking
    80% + W-L record ..........good
    Leading H2H vs 3 biggest rivals - Fed/Nadal/Murray ..........very nice
     
    #39
  40. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal plays on hards and grass too, you know. Clay is clearly Roger's weakest surface - this is beyond dispute.

    So you think it was a lightning strike for a guy who had made 5 slams finals to win one? And that wind too - remind me how much wind there was in the 5th set?
     
    #40
  41. xan

    xan Professional

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    well he didn't say GOAT, just same tier. with the accomplishments he wrote I'd say yeah, he would be tier 1 in my book.
     
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  42. Hodgey20

    Hodgey20 Rookie

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    Recently Bejing Shanghai WTF Aussie open. Thats pretty successful, and if he can carry that along into the rest of the slams/tournaments he will easily become a tier one great
     
    #42
  43. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Murray could sneak his way in and make it 4 beasties.
     
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  44. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

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    I agree with this... although if Nole wins the calendar slam this year, he has a chance at Tier I
     
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  45. powerangle

    powerangle Legend

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    I know he didn't say GOAT. My post didn't say GOAT either, just that it would make Novak the bottom rung of Tier 1.
     
    #45
  46. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    I hope Murray wins many slam matches vs Djok. That being said, he's 1-3 against Djok in slams. Who would you bet your money on?
     
    #46
  47. Spider

    Spider Hall of Fame

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    I am surprised people are underrating Djokovic's future? Who is there to stop him? He is playing at a level we have never witnessed in tennis before.

    He is well on his way to challenge Federer's slam count and in three years time, you will see how close he is.
     
    #47
  48. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
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  49. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    will he be tier 1? no

    but hypothetically, can he be?


    NO
    NO
    NO
     
    #49
  50. xan

    xan Professional

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    yeah, but you compare him to arguably greatest player to have played the game. ofc he gonna land short compared to him. if you want to check if he 'fits' you compare him to another 'bottom' tier 1 player, whoever that might be on your list. not with the very best one.
    hope i cleared some things out.
     
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