Could Federer's loss at the French Open affect his performance at Wimbledon?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by BreakPoint, Jun 11, 2007.

  1. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Obviously, Federer must be devastated and very mentally distraught over his loss for the second year in a row in the French Open final and the third time to Nadal in as many years. Especially, since he's been so mentally focused and worked so hard since the beginning of the year to win this one tournament, but ultimately failed.

    So I was wondering if you guys think he could get over this devastating loss in time to affect his performace at Wimbledon in just two short weeks? Could he lose focus in the early rounds because he's still thinking about this huge loss and his missed opportunity to win the French? Especially, now that he has pulled out of Halle so he won't get much match play on grass under his belt before Wimbledon starts?

    Anyway, I personally think he may not do as well at Wimbledon this year due to the lingering effects of his loss at the French. What do you guys think?
     
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  2. thejuice

    thejuice Hall of Fame

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    Good question BP!!! I actually think he is most comfortable at Wimbledon and will soon forget his failure on the clay as soon as he smells the Wimbledon grass and the famous strawberries and cream. Expect Feds to win another gold trophy.
     
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  3. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    #3
  4. mJeez4293

    mJeez4293 Rookie

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    it might... but it sure didnt last year
     
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  5. dpfrazier

    dpfrazier Rookie

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    I think Fed will bounce right back and be just fine. And he'd better --- 127 other guys lost at Roland Garros as well, and we can't have our GOATs exhibit such a fragile psyche, can we?

    In fact, I'm surprised he didn't jet to Wimbledon last night, break into centre court, and roll around on the turf a bit to rub off any remaining terre battue... :grin:
     
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  6. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I personally don't think the French loss will have an impact on his chances at Wimbledon.

    However, I do feel the tide has been turning a bit this year. Both Fed and Nadal have had chinks put in their armor. But who will step up at Wimbldeon is anyone's guess.

    It would definitely not surprise me to see nadal in the final again.
     
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  7. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Nor I. ;)

    But I would be truly suprised if he were to defeat Fed in the final.

    CC
     
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  8. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I think he will be devestated enough to drop a set sometime during the fortnight.;)
     
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  9. caulcano

    caulcano Hall of Fame

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    I don't think Federer would mind as long as he wins the Wimbldeon title.
     
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  10. David L

    David L Hall of Fame

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    People on this board are very strange. Why would he be affected by his French loss? That's in the past now, nothing he can do about it. Federer's an experienced pro, he's not going to be affected by something like that. People are talking as if his only child has just died or something. It was an important tennis match, he lost and that's it. Time to move on. He was in a similar situation last year and had a very good season after the French.
     
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  11. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Not true. Last year he had only lost the French Open final once. This time he has lost it twice in a row when he really thought he would win it this time after beating Nadal in Hamburg. He was probably more well prepared and more mentally psyched to win the French this year than he ever has before. This loss was also more devastating than last year's because he knows his opportunities now to ever win the French are getting slimmer and slimmer every year. This has to be the hardest and most devastating loss he has ever suffered in his career. It's always hard to emotionally get over a major loss like this, especially for someone as emotional as Federer is. And he is a very emotional guy as we've all seen him cry numerous times.

    Just like it's hard to bounce right back after losing a job or breaking up with your girlfriend or your parents dying, etc., any significant loss will have a psychological and emotional impact that will linger for some time and requires a certain amount of time to get over. And the more significant the event, the greater the loss, and the more time you need to recover. And I would say winning the French was probably the most significant event in Federer's mind over the past year as he knew winning it would put him on top of the G.O.A.T. list. Thus, the more devastaing this failure.
     
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  12. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    I actually disagree with this. He had been inconsistent during the 2 months leading up to the event; he just fired his coach. His serve had noticeably slipped prior to the French Open, and it was a recurring issue through the last 2-3 games.

    Going into Wimbledon, his serve remains the key issue. If his percentage hovers below 50%, and considering that he's going to skip Halle this year, well maybe Roddick finally has a shot in hell. :D
     
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  13. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Even after those losses earlier in the season, Federer said he was better prepared to win the French this year than he has ever been before. Perhaps he lost those other matches because his mind was so focused on he French that he wasn't even thinking that much about those other tournaments?
     
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  14. aznspongehead

    aznspongehead Rookie

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    Well, the way I see it, if Nadal can put up with hardly even making the finals of the other slams, surely Federer should be able to put this FO defeat behind him.
     
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  15. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    The higher you climb, the harder you fall.
     
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  16. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Nah. Had Federer been properly preparing for the French -- and I truly don't think he was in peak condition at all this year -- he would have done better down in Miami and in Monte Carlo. His matches against Canas were especially baffling, because the point construction showed no patience whatsoever against a grinder. If he had been developing a clay court friendly mindset, it would have reflected in his matches against Canas.

    And with that said, besides his service game coming in and out of focus, Federer had a great French Open run. He knows that.

    He come away this year knowing that his BH has vastly improved against Nadal's heavier shots. The first 2 sets showed his progress in regards to that.

    He simply didn't give himself a realistic shot at winning with his low service percentage. Nobody, not even a Federer, can beat a top-5 player on his best surface serving like that. That's not so much about Nadal, but issues with his own game. And Federer knows that. The frustration after the 2nd set reflected that he simply didn't give himself a chance. Had he served better, had he put away easy short balls in that 1st set, had he . . . Had he actually been on the same page with his coach, consultant or advisor, whatever, in regards to beating Nadal this year.

    That leads into Wimbledon. If his service percentage goes back up to where it should be, he should cruise. If it doesn't, well we have a very interesting Wimbledon this year.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2007
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  17. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Yes, definitely, FEDERERE pulled out of Halle today claiming fatigue. but in fact he was just too depressed from the loss to nadal. He was seeing his doctor about getting some prozac, hope it kicks in time for Wimby.
     
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  18. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Perhaps he didn't really care about winning those other tournaments because he wanted to get more rest, reduce his risk of getting injured, and be more physically ready before his bid for this year's French?
     
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  19. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    But he already took a LONG layoff this year. And I've said this a number of times this year, it looked like his footwork had noticeably slipped and his foot speed wasn't where it should be. This was the first year where to me it looked like Federer was *really* going into tourneys expecting to get into "match shape" (i.e. mentally) through the rounds. If Federer isn't nursing something right now, then he may be doing the same thing for Wimbledon.

    Of all the surfaces, I think a person needs to play a lot of clay in order to get into clay shape. I didn't think Fed did this year. And with that said, of course, he still cruised into the finals dropping only one set.

    In any case, that's all water under the bridge. What I'm concerned about, again, is his 1st serve.
     
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  20. ElSuegro

    ElSuegro Rookie

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    Losing to Nadal hasn't bothered him either of the two previous years, and it won't bother the remainder of this year either. Even coming in second, he did something no one else did - get a set off Nadal, and it should have been two. Also, he's only 25 - plenty of more years to try. Wasn't Agassi about 28 when he won?
     
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  21. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Personally, I think the Wimbledon outcome is more significant on his mental state. Last year he 'righted himself' at Halle and W, and then went on to have another dream hardcourt season. I believed then, and I believe again now, were Nadal to beat him in the final, we may have one very very broken Fed indeed.

    Think it goes without saying that Fed is more shattered this year than last year too, which would only make the potential early-loss or Nadal-loss more significant, as you pointed out.
     
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  22. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    And we would have one guy who finally won both French and Wimbledon in this generation, in the same year. Had Nadal done it last year or now, he would be officially in the "Heir to Borg" status.
     
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  23. johnnyg

    johnnyg New User

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    It is natural for the fans to panic and wonder if Fedx is going to crash out of wimbledon. Has he got the mental strength to handle such a big loss? Let's face it,Federer is the only tennis champion who wastes so many break points. That tendency alone, would suggest mental weakness and thus susceptible to a slump after a bad loss. Having said that, look at the way he comes back, time after time, after disheartening losses. He lost twice to Nadal and then went on to win the Wimbledon on both occasions. He had losses in Cincinnati to players like Hrbaty(2004) and Murray(2006) and went on to win US open. In fact, in 2004, he lost to Berdych in Olympics. Now, that must have been very disheartening as he is considered the premier swiss athlete and was the proud flag bearer.

    In truth, he handles losses extremely well... much better than his fans. I am hoping he'll do well at the Big W.
    Let us look at the draw before we start to panic.
     
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  24. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    Same question was asked last year but Federer recovered remarkably.

    But this time if he actually has an injury, it's going to be tough.
     
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  25. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    I just spoke with Federer. He is doing fine and he doesnt foresee anyone dethroning him from Wimbledon. What he also indicated is , he think Roddick will go far into the draw...Go figure.
     
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  26. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    He had the experience last year, so there is no reason he will let it affect him in Wimbledon. Obviously Wimbledon to him is the most important, more than the FO.
     
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  27. David L

    David L Hall of Fame

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    The situation was similar last year, not the same. In any case, losses are part of the sport. Every Grandslam final has someone who loses. Also, Federer is only 25, he'll have other opportunities. He knows that. He'll be a whole lot more upset if he losses the Wimbledon title this year. You guy's crack me up. It was a tennis match, it's over. He has his whole career in front of him. Why would an experienced guy like Federer let this loss ruin the rest of his season? He's already had a very good year so far. If he wins Wimbledon again, he'll be on cloud nine. If he does it at the US, he'll be ecstatic. His career so far has been unbelievable. What has happened to him, he never would have anticipated in million years.

    I think where you're going wrong is you're looking at it too much from a fan's perspective. To the sports writers and bystanders who experience what Federer does vicariously, it all seems so easy or inevitable for them that Federer will make finals and win Grandslams. Federer knows otherwise, he knows nothing is guaranteed. He knows you cannot just pencil him into the finals, because it's bloody hard to get there and he's the one who has to do it. He knew Nadal would be tough on clay, so while he may be disappointed he lost, it's not as if someone sprung a surprise on him. If he had been serving for the match at 5-0 40-love in the third having won the first two sets, and still lost, then he would probably be really upset. But the way the matched panned out, he would have been ready for success or defeat. He's already done better in his career than he could have hoped and has said even if he only wins one Grandslam in a year, it has already been a very good year.

    Federer is living his real life in real time. Everything you read about his destiny or his artistry or his GOAT status etc, are things others are talking and speculating about. This is not how Federer sees himself or how he lives. He knows what he is doing is unbelievable and is very grateful for it, but not expectant. That is the key. He knows he still has to work hard and play well to have continued success. He does'nt have the expectation that this will or must continue to happen. This is what keeps a player focused and grounded. The moment you start believing your own press, is the moment you have lost the plot and the beginning of your downfall. Federer is determined and has perspective, as he has demonstrated many times, he has also taken other tough losses. The 2005 Australian Open semi-final where he had matchpoint and Safin saved it with an unbelievably lucky lob, before going on to win the match. The 2005 Masters Cup final, where he was serving out the match at 30-0 in the fifth and Nalbandian came back to break him and win the match. Those were tough losses, but he just brushed them off and was as blasé in his post match interviews as he was at this years French. How can he be so blasé? Because he knows that matches are tough, there are no guarantees that you will win and in life you win some you lose some. He is sensible enough to be grateful for the fact he has won most. Incidentally, he came back the next year and won each of those titles.
     
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  28. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Federer will be 26 in 2 months. Over the past 33 years, there have been only six champions at Roland Garros who were 26 or older. Federer clearly understands that time is running out for him to win the French.

    He has NOT had a very good year so far, as compared to last year. This year, he lost very early at Indian Wells, Miami, and Rome. Last year, he won Indian Wells and Miami, and had two match points to win the Rome final. This year he went the longest without winning a title in the past four years. In comparison to last year or even the past few years, he's had a terrible year so far. He was really looking at winning the French to redeem himself and to shut the naysayers that say his game is slipping or that he's past his prime. I guess he didn't quite prove them wrong.

    Federer fully expected to win the French this year, especially after beating Nadal in Hamburg. Federer was quoted saying that he thought he was the only guy in the world who could beat Nadal at Roland Garros. Obviously, to make that kind of statement he must have been very confident that he could do it. No question about it, losing the RG final was a huge letdown for Federer, and likely the biggest disappointing loss of his entire career.

    Lastly, this was not just another tennis match. If he wins it, he clearly makes a strong argument for being annointed the greatest of all time, and puts himself above guys like Sampras, Agassi, Borg, etc. If he loses, it puts all of that in doubt. Federer himself is very aware of this as he sees everything in historical perspective and understands the history of the sport. He understands that he is chasing history. This is why winning the French has been his biggest goal over the past couple of years and the most important tournament on his mind for a while now. It's a huge disappointment for him not to have won it this year, especially considering the way he played for the first six rounds. He must be emotionally crushed at the moment, and perhaps even depressed. If your biggest goal in life was to become a doctor but even after you put in your best effort and studied your brains out, you still end up failing out of med school, wouldn't you be crushed and depressed for a while?
     
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  29. Revman

    Revman Rookie

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    That was no "lucky lob." That was a brilliant lob on Safin's part, and a fitting conclusion to a brilliant point. Federer scrambled back and managed a between-the-legs return, but netted it. The point had started with Safin being stretched out wide by a Federer serve to the backhand, with Safin making an incredible return. Safin was the better player that day, pure and simple.
     
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  30. David L

    David L Hall of Fame

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    You're looking at it like a fan again. A Grandslam win and final, a masters series win(on clay against Nadal) and final, and an optional win is a pretty good year half way into the season. Better than his year in 2005. Also, I don't think players go around analysing the ages of past champions like fans do. In any case, people do win Grandslams after 25, including the French. I think Federer's pre and post final interviews say it all. He realized the Hamburg win did'nt guarantee anything. He knows that it was probably not the case he would beat Nadal every time they met, and said so. He can live with the defeat. Is he disappointed with the result? Yes. Crushed? No.

    Your doctor analogy is a bad one. Federer is already living his dream by being a professional tennis player. The French Open defeat is a detail of his success, which he still has time to redeem. Even if he does'nt, he will still be happy with the career he has had.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2007
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  31. David L

    David L Hall of Fame

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    AUSTRALIAN OPEN

    January 27, 2005

    Marat Safin

    MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA

    THE MODERATOR: First question in English.

    Q. Do you remember the match point that Federer had, how did you lob him, and do you think he had the time to pass you or he tried to hit the passing shot between the legs?

    MARAT SAFIN: Yeah, of course I remember that point. Just I was a little bit -- I was lucky. To be honest, I have to say that I was lucky. But I had no other choice. I couldn't go -- from the dropshot, I couldn't go anywhere, because I just lob him, and he was not getting there in position to make a passing shot. So the only chance he had to play between the legs. But it could work also. He had a chance.

    http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=12161
     
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  32. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I'm not so sure about that. In 2005, he had won 3 Masters Series titles leading up to the French (Indian Wells, Miami, and Hamburg) and was a semi-finalist at a Grand Slam. This year, he only has one Masters Series title (Hamburg) to go along with his Grand Slam win and he lost early at Indian Wells and Miami.
    I'm not so sure about that, either. I know neither Borg nor McEnroe won another Grand Slam past the age of 25. And like I said, only six guys have won the French at 26 or older in the past 33 years. Surviving 7 rounds of best of five set matches on red clay is a young man's game.
     
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  33. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Shouldnt effect him at all. Considering he wont need to hire another left hander to hit with to prepare for those topspin backhands, because it shouldnt be a factor. Just because nadal has won another french, which was really no suprise, people act like he's god now lol. I'm sure fed is VERY dissapointed though. I think he knows now he is not gonna out baseline nadal at the french. Next year he will have to mix it up much more if he wants to win.
     
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  34. whistleway

    whistleway Semi-Pro

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    David L, you got a fan out of me on that earlier post. Thanks.
     
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  35. David L

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    Don't know about you, but I'd take a Grandslam title, a Grandslam final appearance and a Masters Series title, over no Grandslam title, no Grandslam final appearance and 3 Masters Series titles. Call me crazy. He's already won Indian Wells and Miam multiple times in the past, he can pick these up again next year. It's not ideal that he went out early, but it's no big deal. No.1s don't usually win everything, look at the history. Federer sets such high standards, I guess it's no wonder some may think he has had a bad year. Imagine if Roddick or any of the other players were in Federer's position this year. They'd be jumping for joy.

    6 guys is good enough. This shows it has been done multiple times. Borg retired at 26 so he's not a very good case study. McEnroe was a lazy, unmotivated, coke snorting, party animal, so he's another poor case study. No one said it was going to be easy, but clearly it can be done and has been done. Costa, Gomez, Agassi, Lendl, to name a few. Federer may join this group.
     
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  36. prosealster

    prosealster Professional

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    I remember when courier lost the FO and Wim final back to back...and he was devastated...never the same player since...so BP has a point.....but as a Fed fan...lets hope not ;)
     
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  37. Tennis_Goodness

    Tennis_Goodness Semi-Pro

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    Federer is his own person and doesn't seem to listen to previous history at all. Bringing up the history of players from the past means nothing when it comes to Federer, Federer is in the history breaking buisness.

    Who knows how long Federer will keep playing tennis. He's one of the most fit and in shape ahtletes on the planet and his style of play and lack of injuries suggest he could play effectively for alot longer. I really believe he could be effective and a top player for another 10 years if he stays injury free. He can do everything with a racquet and maybe he will find a way to beat Nadal on clay.

    He's not far away from breaking Petes grandslam recored and garnishing the "best player of all time" title. What more do you want from the guy right now? Nadal is turning out to be one of the greats on clay, and if Federer does indeed beat Nadal at the French Open one year, then that's just another feather in the cap.

    Adversity is what sport is all about, great things come from great oppurtunities. I'm looking forward to what will happend!
     
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  38. kingdaddy41788

    kingdaddy41788 Hall of Fame

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    Did it last year? I think not.
     
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  39. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Huh? What Grand Slam final appearance in addition to his Grand Slam title prior to the French? There's only one Grand Slam before the French and that's the AO and he won it.
     
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  40. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, and Courier had already won the French Open two years in a row prior to that and was going for his third in a row, whereas Federer has never won it, so I would have to presume that the loss was even more devastating to Federer than to even Courier.
     
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  41. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    I don't think so. Federer's been around...he's more experienced now than he was one, two or three years ago. You cannot transfer what YOUR feelings might be after such a loss, to a professional athlete with a proven record of bouncing back after losses. You cannot assume that this loss would "devastate" him in the very least. Can I assume that it won't? To a degree, yes, because there is precedent and history on my side...both of which indicate that not only did losing RG not affect RF's performance on other surfaces in the past three years, but it actually of fired him up, if results are anything to go by.

    He's a big boy, he'll be fine. No one is going to take away his Wimbledon title. I wouldn't be quite as sure of the USO, though. But that has nothing to do with RG.
     
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  42. catspaw

    catspaw Rookie

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    I think I agree with just about all of this. There are too many assumptions that Federer will be completely distraught after this match, and for a prolonged length of time. Both fans and detractors can make a big deal of what he should and shouldn't be feeling and how this is BOUND to affect the rest of his career. When asked after the final how badly this would affect Federer, Peter Fleming replied that it was a huge loss and would probably bother him for a couple of days!! That, it would seem, is how long such disasters typically affect professional sportsmen, and I see no reason why Federer should be any different.

    To make an assumption of my own, I imagine that his disappointment may well be laced with a fair amount of anger with himself for not being able to make the breakthrough in the first set, having had so many opportunities to do so, especially as he won the second set quite handily. I believe he's well known for channeling his anger in a useful direction and, again, I see no reason why that should suddenly change now.

    On top of all that it appears that he sustained some sort of injury during the third set that probably scuppered any chance he may have had of making a real fight of it in the latter stages of the match. He knows therefore that he didn't/couldn't play his best. If he'd been able to play his A+ game and still lost, perhaps he would have more reason to be inconsolably devastated. As it is he lost a match where he played averagely (if that), and I'm sure he'll bear that in mind when he decides how upset he's going to be about it and for how long (if Peter Fleming's right, he's already moved on, unlike some......).
     
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  43. David L

    David L Hall of Fame

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    Half way through the year you are calling a bad year, Federer has won a Grandslam(Australian Open) and been in the final of another(French Open).

    In addition to these results he has won a Masters Series tournament(Hamburg) beating Nadal for the first time on clay and ending his 81 match winning streak, been in the final of another(Monte Carlo) and won an International Series Gold tournament(Dubai). He has had 3 bad results, for him. Second round(Indian Wells), third round(Rome) and fourth round(Miami).

    Conclusion. His year has'nt been perfect and by his standards he could have done better. Nevertheless, he has had a pretty good year so far and anyone else on the tour would take his results over theirs. The one consolation regarding his 3 poor results is he will be able to pick up points at those tournaments next year to consolidate his No.1 ranking.
     
    #43
  44. David L

    David L Hall of Fame

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    How could you possibly know that Courier was devastated? Do you know him personally or something? Have you considered the possibility that a competitive tour caught up with him and passed him by?
     
    #44
  45. Bassus

    Bassus Rookie

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    Yeah, I'm sure if at the beginning of his career someone told him he can be a Wimbledon champion or a French Open champion, then he would have picked Wimbledon.

    But now, with four Wimbledon's under his belt, do you really think winning a fifth if more important to him than winning his first French?

    At this point, winning the French is no doubt his number one professional goal.
     
    #45
  46. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

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    I think I could harp back to the AO when Federer told someone that for the first time he was waking up in the night and thinking about shots. I thought it was some kind of warning bell. From someone who seemed so layed back I wondered then if this did not herald a change and was he becoming a little too stressed out.
     
    #46
  47. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Regarding the season so far, Federer seems to be a bit more shaky than in the last 3 years. His form on clay, was imo a bit less than last year. His presence at Halle was a good pattern for his Wim wins. But on the other hand: Who can really challenge him on grass? I thought, Murray, who looked very strong at AO, and Ancic would be his main challengers. But they are out or questionable. Gasquet is out of form. Maybe Djoko, who almost beat Ancic last year at Wim, has a chance. Monfils, if he gets in his big serves for 3 or 4 sets, could be dangerous. Nadal looks a bit tired, no wonder. Remain the usual supects: Roddick, Blake, Hewitt, but they simply don't have the right game for Fed. There are not many floaters on grass, and the 32 seeding system makes it easier for the favorites, to get into the groove.
     
    #47
  48. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    He said so at the beginning of THIS year.
    FO was No1 before FO. But overall in a whole year, he took wimbledon over everything else.
     
    #48
  49. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    I would think so, it would be normal for anyone to lose confidence after a loss. But in Federer's interview he made it clear that he doesn't take the losses with him when he changes surfaces.
     
    #49
  50. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Could Federer's loss at the French Open affect his performance

    Ja, we will have to ask Mirka. She is the only one who would know the answer.
     
    #50

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