Could my Uncle Win the Women's US Open??

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tergat, Sep 6, 2004.

  1. tergat

    tergat Guest

    As a tennis newcomer, I am unsure of the relative levels of competition. I got in an argument tonight with some family members about women's tennis. I claimed that the top high school boys could probably beat the world's best women.
    I based this assumption off of other sports; for example, the best high school boy runners are faster than the women's olympic champions; similarly, basketball high school allstar teams would demolish a WNBA team.
    So what is the gender comparison? Could my Uncle, a former D1 scholarship player (now 38 years old with kids, who rarely practices) win the women's US open? Maybe after a month of practices?

    please discuss.
     
    #1
  2. kv581

    kv581 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Messages:
    638
    Track... maybe. It's not totally impossible for top highschool males to possess superior physical prowess than top women champions.

    High school allstar basketball teams beating WNBA team? Are you mad?? Have you ever seen McDonald's All-American games? Most of those players display raw physical talents without true knowledge for the game.

    Same thing goes for tennis I think, unless the "best high school player" is someone the caliber of Nadal (who is currently same age as some high school seniors). Even then he wouldn't necessarily be a lock to win.

    In general, I think high school male athletes have little advantage, if at all, over top women players in sports where knowledge of the game and finesse skills are just as important as pure athletic prowess.

    As for your uncle. It is possible for him to win women's US Open. Heck, it is possible for him to win men's US Open too. Anything is possible. Is it likely that he does either though? Nah.
     
    #2
  3. RickN

    RickN Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    238
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Nadal would destroy anyone in the WTA. I think anyone in the top 100 in the ATP Tour would cream anyone in the WTA.
     
    #3
  4. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Yes nadal would destroy Serena, Venus, Henin, Mauresmo, etc..

    No contest.. by the way, John Mc thinks he can destroy both serena and venus at his current age lol, and he probably can

    Seriously, most top junior players like Gael Monfis or TOP NCAA players could destroy the TOP WTA... And top juniors = top highschoolers
     
    #4
  5. tergat

    tergat Guest

    I will give you that the role of technique in tennis levels the playing field quite a bit, but I would still be surprised that the best 15-18 year old boys couldn't whup the pro women. If you are right, tennis is one of the most gender-equal sports out there; I certainly have no problem believing this is true though, since there are ten year old kids out there who would kill me at tennis because of the necessity of proper technique.

    And just for your general knowledge, it's not a "maybe" in track. The best high school boys would destroy the women's world record holder in every running event except the marathon with ease. For example, high school boys can break 1:50 for the 800m, while the absolute best women in the world are never under 1:56 these days.
     
    #5
  6. RickN

    RickN Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    238
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I saw Johnny Mac play Agassi in an exhibition match (on TV) last year and his serves were smoking! Although it was for fun, Agassi/Mac were competitive and he actually won the first set against Agassi. No doubt in my mind he could beat the ladies.
     
    #6
  7. jun

    jun Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    548
    Define any good high school player. Are we talking about a top ranked junior? I know Andy Roddick played #3 in his high school team. But I don't think he played any more high school tennis after he shot up in ranking.

    I will give you an example. The other day I was watching a guy from our tennis team (UW Madison). He's not the best player on the team, but I think he can take out a lot of high school player. And he was playing against a female player who I have no idea about. He was down 4-1 in the set, and lost the set 6-2. And I know he wasn't tanking!

    I think top juniors who are around 18 yrs old can probably challenge WTA players. But I highly highly doubt a boy in 16s could beat WTA player.

    This is an interesting discussion. Yet I think it's important for us (men especially) to appreciate women's sport.
     
    #7
  8. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    Actually I would say that a high school basketball team composed of this years McDonald's All Americans could beat a WNBA team and it wouldn't even be close. The average center in the WNBA is around 6"4" There is no way a 6'4" female would be able to stop 6'11" Dwight Howard in the low post. Dawn Staley at 5'6" who I assume is one of the top pgs in the WNBA could not guard Sebastian Telfair if her life depended on it.

    The height, speed and strength differential is simply too much. It doesn't matter if the women are fundamentally more sound and played a better team game. Setting screens, making extra passes will not win a game if the team you are playing against can run circles around you and you can't get a shot off because every player is 6-10 inches taller than you at every position.

    But getting back to the original question. I doubt some 38 year old guy who is out of shape and hasn't played tennis for a long time could win the the US Women's Open even if he spent a couple months getting ready.
     
    #8
  9. kv581

    kv581 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Messages:
    638
    One only needs to point to Olympic basketball games to see that fundamentally sound basketball teams possessing strong team work can in fact overcome individual physical talent. There's no doubt in my mind that players like James or Marion can outrun or outjump most foreign players at a track meet. But teams as fundamentally sound as Argentina or even Italy really gave the US team some hard times.

    Likewise, it's probably true that someone like Livingston can hold his own going 1-on-1 against just about any WNBA players, but the McDonald's All American teams simply do not play the team game. They are basically offensive machines (no, make that DUNKING machines... for some reason few All Americans are actually decent shooters) that play no defense. A good WNBA team should be able to exploit weaknesses in the All American team (and there are quite a few).
     
    #9
  10. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    The problem with your analogy is that you are comparing European men to American mens teams. Physically the European male players matched up well with the American mens teams. I am NOT talking about talent just physical size strength and speed. In fact there are many euro teams which were physically bigger. And that talent was not as big a difference as you make it. Marbury could not run circles around the top pgs from Argentina or Lithuania. Most of the talent on the teams that medalled in the Olympics was NBA or slightly below.

    Comparing men to womens basketball is something totally different.
    There is a huge difference between a 7'0 280 lb Lithuanian guarding your center and a 6'4" 200 lb woman who cant even get off high off the floor to dunk guarding your center. A 7'0" lithuanian has the body to stop a center from just turning around and dunking. A 6'4" female would have zero chance.
     
    #10
  11. Camilio Pascual

    Camilio Pascual Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,825
    Yes, he might, but he would require an operation to become eligible. The effects of this operation might bring his playing level down, however. Probably bring his mood down, too.
     
    #11
  12. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    249
    Let's compare men to men and women to women. Please.
     
    #12
  13. tennis-n-sc

    tennis-n-sc Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,261
    Laddies, me well remembers me high school days when I was the king of me universe. After leaving me dear old high school, I discovered just how many kings there are out there. Twas an awakening for the ages. But please, keep those youthful thoughts alive, gives us old leprecauns much pleasure.
     
    #13
  14. ronin

    ronin Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    138
    All except Serena she hit serves with more powers then a lot
    of ATP pro's. Serena hit once almost 125 mph and her average speed is about 117 mph. practicly like Agassi
     
    #14
  15. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    There are many amateur men out there who could beat the top women, but that doesn't mean a thing for those men. Many female pros use male hitting partners, but those guys don't tour with the ATP.
     
    #15
  16. ucd_ace

    ucd_ace Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    608
    Yeah, men compete at a higher level than women, BUT... I'm not so sure your uncle could beat Serena, but I would root for him if they played!
     
    #16
  17. JRW

    JRW Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    230
    I think the top world class 16 year-old male juniors would beat any WTA pro. By "world class" I'm talking about the guys that play in the orange bowl, junior Wimbledon, etc. not your local 16 year-olds that win the county championship. I was talking to the head coach for our local D-1 men's tennis team (top 30 NCAA D-1 team) about this same topic about a year ago. He told me that one of his former players works for the USTA in some aspect(can't remember exactly what) and he played a few practice sets with Serena Williams about two years ago and smoked her 1,1. This fellow played no. 3 on his team 22 years ago. He also went on to say that he would be the farm that any of his top 6 starters would easily beat any player on the WTA tour. IMO if a 44 year-old man that was just an average D-1 college player 20+ years ago could kill a top WTA player today then I have little doubt that the top male players above 16 yo would beat any WTA player handily.
     
    #17
  18. nyu

    nyu Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    178
    I was at the US Open a few days ago watching Chanda Rubin practice. She was hitting with a mid 20's man who wasn't even in the top 500, and he was holding back and still beating her soundly. The women simply do not have the firepower or movement to compete with any man with any atp points. For instance, there was this kid in the southwest section a few years ago who was ranked between 1-5 in the section, and top 100 in the US juniors. He was at a random tournament and ended up playing capriati a pro set, beating her 8-2 the year she won the australian and french opens. I would go as far as to say a 5.0 in NY, FL, or CA could hang with, if not beat, a top 100 woman.
     
    #18
  19. callitout

    callitout Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,303
    This might've already been said. But if by "high school" players one means kids 18 and under, then of course the best "boys" could beat the top WTA players: Berdyich, Nadal, Monfils would probably bagel venus or serena. The movement in the mens game is so much better that clean winners against Davenport would be routine rally balls for any top 200 player on the mens side. If this guys uncle plays like Nadal, then he should quit his day job and join the pro tour. But your regular #1 on a high school tennis varsity team is gonna get 2 games against at best in a set against a womens D1 college player.
     
    #19
  20. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    THis is the heart of the matter Jun...most really good high school age players are often not playing for their high school anymore...they play international juniors and even satellites. Most of these top players would beat the top women without too much difficulty.
     
    #20
  21. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    ROFL. From the Mary Carillo out of touch with reality school of thought...

    Let me guess...you'd rather have Serena's serve over Agassi's? I have some really valuable property to sell you at a bargain price...
     
    #21
  22. nyu

    nyu Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    178
    Not quite true callitout. The top 4 guys on my high school tennis team, in new mexico of all places, completely destroyed the #1 player on the girl's team, who now plays d1 tennis. Our #7 player also beat her in a close match, and we'd all bagel the kid. Our #6 player is now a manager for a D1 women's tennis team at his university, and while he can't beat the players in matches, he stays very close simply because of his serve and movement. He's about a 4.0 with a 4.5-5.0 serve.

    To keep things fair, my team finished in 2nd place in the team competition at the state championships my senior year, and our 1,2, and 3 players bageled the first 3 teams we dueled. So i guess I'm going back on my original argument, because most of the #1's at the other schools were 3.5's, 4.0 tops and would have gotten crushed by a solid D1 woman.
     
    #22
  23. Fetus Gerulaitis

    Fetus Gerulaitis New User

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    Gee . . you're right . . . there aren't any good High Schoolers because they lack the finesse and knowledge of the game of the top women professionals . . . oh wait a minute . . . Boris Becker won Wimbledon at 17 . . . then there's that . . .
     
    #23
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,130
    For basketball, Cheryl Miller, the best player in the world at the time, had to stop playing her kid brother because he got too good for her. Of course he was future NBA all-star Reggie Miller. The other point was that he was only in 9th grade. Any good high school boys team (not even a McDonalds all-star team) would crush a WNBA team. For golf, Annika Sorenstam can play pretty even with the top men. Tennis is in-between. The very top juniors and very top college players would beat the top women, but your local high school number one player, a former college player not at the top of his game, or a college player not a a big-time tennis school could not beat them.
     
    #24

Share This Page