Courier's GS in 1992

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by tennis_pro, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    I've got a question for fans who have been watching tennis for more than 20 years. Was there any hype about Courier winning the CYGS in 1992 after he scored in the Australian and French Opens?
     
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  2. heathcliff

    heathcliff Rookie

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    no. courier wasn´t that popular back then. that´s not fair since he was a hard worker. but there was as less hype as about lendl.
     
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  3. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I don't remember much hype about a GS. In fact, I remember more hype about Courier not being talented enough to stay at the top. I also think everyone conceded that he wasn't going to win Wimbledon.
     
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  4. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
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  5. SDN

    SDN Rookie

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    Yes!
    When Sampras went to Nike (by Sergio Tacchini), there was an advertisement (Nike) with the presence of all three players in the ' 93-' 94. It was set in a library; While Sampras or leafed through a book, the pages of the other books in the library began to move, and the figures inside them (depicting Agassi, Courier, Mary Pierce, M.J. Fernandez) began in throwing balls inside the library, simulating a match. The advertisement ended with Sampras going away from the library; a book of the library now deserted, opened in the page depicting Courier that requiring to make silence.
    Unfortunately, advertising is nowhere to be found (for now).
     
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  6. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    That commercial was actually set at a newstand. Richard Krajicek was also in it.

    Yes, to the OP, it was talked about a fair amount, but, obviously, not for very long!
     
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  7. ACS

    ACS New User

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    It was talked about quite a bit, especially given how dominating Courier had been in winning the French a couple of weeks earlier (losing just one set).

    Also, remember the men's tennis landscape at the start of Wimbledon 1992. Courier had won 3 of the past 5 slams. Sampras wasn't really "Sampras" yet...he had won one slam, and hadn't done anything (anything!) at Wimbledon to that point. I don't think anyone really expected defending champion Michael Stich to become a consistent champ. Agassi was just coming out of his second (?) major slump. Lendl was fading. Ivanisevic was known to have a huge serve and a previous semifinal showing there, but it was really the 92 tournament where he became a legitimate GS contender.

    Having said that, the great S&V's of the 80s/90s, Edberg (in between his two US Open wins) and Becker (who had made the last four Wimbledon finals) were the favourites. Especially given that the feeling back then was, as mentioned above, "you can't win on grass if you stay back."

    So, did people talk about Courier and the Grand Slam? Yes. Were people excited about the possibility? Yes. Did many people actually think he was going to win Wimbledon? No.
     
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  8. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Courier did play a great DC tie on grass against the Brits though, cant remember his exact scores but he surprised me.
     
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  9. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That was on indoor hardcourt in 1999:

    2nd-4th April 1999 - National Indoor Arena, Birmingham, Great Britain (UK vs. USA)

    British team
    Tim Henman (singles world number 7 - doubles world number 151)
    Greg Rusedski (singles world number 11 - doubles world number 202)
    Miles MacLagan (singles world number 295 - doubles world number 325)
    Mark Hilton (singles world number 1,107 - doubles world number 1,284)

    American team
    Todd Martin (singles world number 8 - doubles world number 231)
    Jim Courier (singles world number 54 - doubles world number 240)
    Alex O'Brien (singles world number 171 - doubles world number 21)
    Jan-Michael Gambill (singles world number 46 - doubles world number 214)


    Friday 2nd April 1999
    1st Rubber: Jim Courier def. Tim Henman (7-6, 2-6, 7-6, 6-7, 7-5)
    2nd Rubber: Todd Martin def. Greg Rusedski (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)

    Saturday 3rd April 1999
    3rd Rubber: Tim Henman/Greg Rusedski def. Todd Martin/Alex O'Brien (3-6, 7-5, 6-3, 6-7, 6-3)

    Sunday 4th April 1999
    4th Rubber: Tim Henman def. Todd Martin (4-6, 7-5, 6-3, 7-6)
    5th Rubber: Jim Courier def. Greg Rusedski (6-4, 6-7, 6-3, 1-6, 8-6)


    A few months later at 1999 Wimbledon, Henman and Courier met in the Round of 16. Henman won 4-6, 7-5, 7-5, 6-7, 9-7, after saving 3 match points.
     
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  10. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    No. There was alot more talk about Seles's possibly winning the Grand Slam at that point, and even she people thought was unlikely to do it even while halfway there. Nobody thought Courier would do it. The thought of him winning Wimbledon was a joke to people, even when he was ranked #1.
     
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  11. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    nobody expected courier to beat edberg on grass at that point but when you're that good anything can happen. He was an underdog on grass but after 1992 people started believing baseliners could win at Wimbledon by actually staying back. Jim’s success in 93 was a piggyback off Agassi’s run in 92
     
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  12. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Did you read the articles I posted?

     
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  13. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I was at '92 Wimbledon the day Courier was upset in the 3rd round. Pretty sure at that point he was at the least a close 2nd or 3rd favorite to win the tournament with the bookies (behind Edberg), he looked really good in his first 2 matches & there wasn't really a dominant grasscourt player at the time(Becker didn't look good all year long or in the 1st 2 rounds, Stich still had a lot to prove, Edberg was getting older - by 1992 standards at least - & choked big time vs Matsuoka at Queens) I have some UK papers I collected at the time, will try to look for them to see if I can find odds.

    Let's put it this way, what if Courier won his 3rd round match? He would have been the favorite vs Mac. and the favorite vs Forget in the QF. and a heavy favorite vs Agassi in the semis. and certainly would have been favored vs 1st time major finalist Goran.

    Now favorites don't always win matches, but the draw shows he wasn't that far off from being having a real shot at winning it. And the draw shows just how much more depth there was in the game(at least on grass) in 1992. which is why there were so many more 4 & 5 setters compared to today.
    I'n not sure why they bother playing the 1st weeks of majors anymore, the gap between the top players & the rest of the field is as big as its ever been.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
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  14. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Are you sure about that? In a Wimbledon final after Goran had beaten both Lendl and Sampras without even facing a break point in those matches? Goran had also beaten the tournament favourite, Edberg. Still, I was thinking this going into the actual final when Goran played Andre. All the evidence favoured Goran, as he was the serve and volleyer playing against a baseliner in a Wimbledon final, had been devastating serving form, and led 2-0 in the head-to-head against Agassi, yet Andre won.

    Goran had also beaten Jim earlier in the year in the Stuttgart Indoor tournament, and was the only man to trouble Courier in any way during Courier's dominant 1992 French Open run. Goran was good enough to win the third set 6-2 against Courier and lead 4-1 in the fourth set in that tournament.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
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  15. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    A big difference in terms of how the draw shapes up is that there were 16 seeds back then compared to 32 seeds today. It makes a bigger difference than some people think. Back in 1992, we could have a match like Courier vs. Muster in the second round of the French Open. If there had been 32 seeds at that time, that match could not have happened that early in the tournament.
     
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  16. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I noticed the name "Robin Finn" the horrendous NY times tennis writer of the 90s at top and ceased to read the rest. :) When I said anyone, I meant anyone of actually importance, not some poor womens female version of Wertheim.
     
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  17. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Courier was not the favourite, but neither was he written off. And Courier's loss to Olhovskiy was a big surprise, considering that Olhovskiy was a qualifier ranked 193 in the world while Courier was world number 1 and on a 25 match winning streak.
     
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  18. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I wasnt surprised at Courier losing to a no-name at Wimbledon 92. that is what happened most years he played Wimbledon. Just like I wasnt surprised at Graf destroying Seles in the Wimbledon final (I would have been surprised at Seles being there if she didnt get drawn into the soft half). It seems some people in their excitement forget the meaning of surfaces and assume the best clay courter or slow hard courter to win Wimbledon, and inevitably are gravely mistaken in nearly each case.
     
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  19. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You thought Courier would lose to Olhovskiy? I ask because had Courier won, his next opponents would have been McEnroe, Forget, Agassi and Ivanisevic, who are hardly "no-names".

    In 1991, Courier was a quarter finalist at Wimbledon, losing to the eventual champion, Stich.
     
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  20. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I did not specifically pick him to lose to Olhovskiy. I always figure there is a decent chance Courier loses in any match he plays at Wimbledon though, even in his prime, so that he did didnt surprise me either. If I was forced to guess a result I would have predicted losing 4th round to an old McEnroe.

    So only one other year (besides his 1993 final obviously) you can point to a decent result. Thanks for proving my point.
     
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  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You're using something called hindsight. Courier's Wimbledon results went from R128 in 1989, R32 in 1990 and QF in 1991. By the time of 1992 Wimbledon, Courier was clearly in better form than he'd ever been and had won the first 2 majors of 1992.
     
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  22. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    yeah, I think I'd favor Goran over Courier as well on the Wimby grass.
     
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  23. SDN

    SDN Rookie

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    #23
  24. Tobias Fünke

    Tobias Fünke Rookie

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    My recollection is that his 3rd round loss was a huge upset but that he was not expected to win the tournament. Still, he was the dominant player of that time until the next year's French Open.
     
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  25. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I know Courier was ranked no. 1 and thus seeded no. 1 at Wimbledon, but did anyone ever believe he was much of a grass-court player?

    He certainly appeared to me to be a grinder (with a big forehand).

    (In 1993 at Wimbledon, it appears he had lucky draw, but he did beat Todd Martin and Edberg on the way to the finals--where he met a great grass-courter and won only one set.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
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  26. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Damn I really thought this was earler and on grass, getting senile lol

     
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  27. eric draven

    eric draven Rookie

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    I remember there being a lot of talk about it but it didn't seem like anyone believed he had the game to win Wimbledon going into that year's tournament. I do remember that he was all-out intimidating and half the matches I watched the guy he was playing was already psyched out before the first serve was hit. Overall, he had a great 2-1/2 year run.
     
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  28. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    There also wasn't much hype about Agassi winning 27 of 28 grand slam matches-
    99 RG won
    99 WIM final
    99 USO won
    2000 AO won
     
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  29. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    People would mention Sampras' absence through a back injury from the 1999 US Open when he was the pre-tournament favourite. Sampras gave Agassi some brutal beatdowns in 1999, the Wimbledon final being an obvious one, but also the last world championships final in Hannover.
     
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  30. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    True, but at least Agassi beat Sampras in the 2000 AO semis. But absolutely, beating Sampras at the US Open seemed virtually impossible for Agassi. Agassi could never stretch Sampras to that 5th set in their US Open meetings, and hence it is unlikely Agassi would have achieved it in 1999 UNLESS Sampras was injured and made the final, and he was injured. Yes, Sampras' 99 Wimbledon final is the best performance maybe ever at Wimbledon.
     
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  31. chmee

    chmee Rookie

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    I was rooting him back then, but I never believed he could win Wimbledeon with all those other guys around.
     
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