Crank machine snapping string??!

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Roger Wawrinka, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Hey guys, Just today, I was stringing on my prince neos 1500 as usual. I was stringing a Wilson blx six one tour 90 with RPM blast string 17 at 57 pounds for my client. I was stringing the 2nd main on the short side and just like that.....gone, the string snapped on me. This has never happened to me before and I can not figure out why. Was the string itself weak?


    Also, I has some questions about my tension head. Lately, I noticed the part of the string that is in the tension head, after I tension it, it becomes scuffed, why is this? Another thing that has been happening is after I let tension go sometimes the string will still be stuck in the tensioner and will not come out. I will have to re-pull tension to get the string out. Why is this happening too? Could this be a contributing factor to the snapping of the string?



    P.S I clean my machine once a week, if not more. I feel like I need to with how many racquets I string a day. Which the number has grown from just a couple months ago.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
    #1
  2. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Where did it snap? In any event, it sounds like your gripper may be too tight?
     
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  3. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    As I was tensioning the 2nd cross on the short side. On the 90, I would be tensioning towards the throat, the string snapped around the middle to upper part of the frame.

    The worse part was that it snapped off enough string that I could not finsh the clients racquet.
     
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  4. bugeyed

    bugeyed Semi-Pro

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    Not sure about the string breakage,possibly nicked string, but FYI I clean clamps, tensioner, clamp shafts, cam surface & the rails where the clamps glide before each session & the clamping surfaces after every 5 or 6 racquets. The clean clamps allow me to use minimal clamping pressure. I use a Star 4 machine.

    Cheers,
    kev
     
    #4
  5. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    I do clean most of those parts, but probably not every 5 to 6 racquets, more like every 10 racquets. But I'll clean more often if that will help the problem.

    Wow you're every lucky to own a star 4:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
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  6. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Sounds like the string is slipping through the gripper on your stringer. It could be when you switch to a 17 gauge string your gripper is not closing far enough causing the string to slip. Could be dirt in the groves of the gripper which is hard to get out without taking the gripper apart. I would not recommend taking the gripper apart to clean it but I doubt you can buy a new one. My guess is there is too much gunk build up on the gripper plates or they are just worn out.

    If you decide to take it apart be real careful there are two springs and 28 ball bearings in there to get lost. Not a lot of fun putting it back together again either.
     
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  7. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You may also want to check you tension calibration if you have not. The tension you initially see when the machine locks out is what you want to see. Most machines are adjusted at 60 pounds but you may want to check a range of tensions. Like 50, 55, 60, and 65. To make sure it is linear.
     
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  8. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay, Thanks for the response you guys, but now a bigger question. If it is that much of a pain and you (Irvin) do not suggest that I take the gripper apart. What should I do?
     
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  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Buy a new stringer or a Wise tension head.

    I do have another idea though. There are paint brushes that are used to paint in conners and around doors and windows. They have a thin replaceable pad. Don't know for sure but those pads with the little bristles may fit between the plates and is soaked in alcohol they may clean the gunk out is you clean both surfaces real good. Not say they will work but may be worth a try.

    I'm not saying you can't take the gripper apart as I did that. I'm saying it is not easy and I would not recommend it. There are two large plates the sliding grippers slide through. Make sure you mark all four pieces so they go back together right. While they are apart you can clean and inspect the surfaces that contact the string. When I put mine back together I had to lay down the left side large plate with 8 bearings in each grove. They lay down the left slide with the springs then the right slide with 8 bearings in each grove. Now you can't screw it together because the whole thing has to fit on the tensioner. Pick up everything making sure nothing falls out line up all the holes with the holes on the tensioner. Tighten the screws and check your calibration.

    You could also go to the for sale section and look for another tension head. They may be someone who bought a Wise and thinks he will never need the old lockout. Maybe there is an old lockout out there with another problem and you can cannibalize it. You never know.

    EDIT: Here you go place an add here
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12

    EDIT: Another quick search of the For Sale or Trade turned this up
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=396202&highlight=Crank
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
    #9
  10. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    If you listen to Irvin on this one, you may just receive another dirty tension head if that person you get one from did not keep it clean.Then you will have 2 tension heads with same issue. Since you were inquireing on different high end machines on another thread , maybe best to sell yours and upgrade now, as it sounds like you string enough to justify a higher end machine.Another thought is to send your head, (stringing machines that is) to tennis machines dot com and have it serviced.
     
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  11. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay Thanks for the help guys. I'll let you know if this happens to me for another time and then I'll tell you know.


    R.W
     
    #11
  12. Squidward

    Squidward Rookie

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    Contact tennismachines.com

    They may have a spare tensioner laying about, or at the very least, they could repair any issue you have with your stringer.

    Good Luck!
     
    #12
  13. Brocolt

    Brocolt Rookie

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    I am getting close to taking my gripper apart and cleaning it. It will scuff the string regardless of how tight or loose I have it set. In the meantime I fold a buisness card and put in the the gripper and it works fine without any scuffs.
     
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  14. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    My first suggestion was buy a new stringer or Wise tension head and that is still what I would do (preferably buy a new stringer.) I would use a business card in the gripper until i got a new stringer then sell the old one for parts. Good idea about the tennis machines though. Problem is no stringer until he gets it back if it can be fixed.
     
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  15. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ^^^^Hey guys, I was wondering, is there any way to widen the jaws of the gripper without taking it apart? Would that prevent scuffing?


    R.W
     
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  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Effectively using a business card does that.
     
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  17. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    This is a NEOS, right?
    Have you used the adjustment screw?
    'In' is for thicker or more delicate string.
    Sometimes flicking the gripper a couple of times before inserting the string can free it up so that it doesn't lock up on the string.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
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  18. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    And yes, there is an adjustment screw on the tension head. If the string is slipping, you can tighten it. If the string is being smashed, you can loosen it. When I used my crank head, I adjusted it so it didn't ghost natural gut.
     
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  19. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay, So this screw is the one that is sticking right out behind the tension head correct? I do not have to take anything apart.

    R.W
     
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  20. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Yes, that is correct. Turning clockwise widens the gripper and turning counterclockwise closes it. Basically you want to make sure that the gripper surface is clean (I use a cotton shoelace dipped in denatured alcohol) and grips the string as lightly as you can without it slipping. With some soft strings you may get a little ghosting but that is ok.

    I cannot believe you need a new tension head--this is a Neos 1500 we are talking about (that machine cannot be very old)--your absolute worst case scenario is having it serviced by the folks at tennis machines dot com (they are the best) for a 100 bucks. Get a Wise only if you want a Wise--I don't think you need one. Good luck.
     
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  21. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ^^^^^Okay, Thanks for everyone's help!:) I'll let you know the results soon.
     
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  22. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    your machine is a tank. if adjusted and used properly, it will not have any issues. no need to replace anything.
     
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  23. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Turning the screw in either direction doe not open or close the gripper. If you screen it in the end of the screw hits the plates sooner and limits the travel so the gripper will not close as far. If you screw it out the gripper travels farther. The farther is travels when tension is pulled the more it closes down on the string.
     
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  24. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay guys, I strung two racquets for my client. The good side to this is no string snapped. The bad side.....everytime I pulled tension, the string was scuffed on that part. Basically, the string was scuffed on very many parts of the racquet. I did turn the screw clockwise but that did not seem to help the scuffing. So I gave my client his racquet's and he was okay with everything. I told him that the scuffing should not be there, but did tell him that it should not make a difference in the play of the strings. Anyway, I just charged him a little less then half of what his normal string job costs but that's okay. So I still do not know what I need to do with my neos, help please:/
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
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  25. COPEY

    COPEY Hall of Fame

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    From what I can tell you already have a few reasonable options. (1) Send the crank tensioner in for repair or (2) spring for a Wise tensioner.

    For what it's worth, I was one of those people who figured a Wise would be overkill, an unecessary expense, something I really didn't need. It wasn't the price at all; I just felt my crank was easy enough and that if I purchased a Wise I wouldn't enjoy stringing any more than I already did at that time. I couldn't have been more wrong. The Wise is a great little add-on, and since you string for others it'll definitely pay for itself in no time at all.

    If you do opt to purchase a Wise, at some point you should still send your crank tensioner in for repair, which will give you a reliable backup in the event you have to send the Wise in for repair.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
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  26. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay, thanks for the reply and info COPEY.
     
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  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    To reduce scuffing you need to turn the screw COUNTER Clockwise. When you turn the screw clockwise the tip sticks out farther and hits the plate sooner meaning the gripper will not close as far so you string may slip more.

    EDIT: I can't speak for everyone but rather than return a racket to a customer with a problem I would rather return the racket unstrung and tell them I have a stringer problem and can't string it. Why don't you just use a business card?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
    #27
  28. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    If I were to use a business card, I would just fold the card in half, and then put the card in the gripper correct? Also, is there any chance of string slipping while you have a business card in the gripper?

    P.S I thought about just not stringing his racquet but just told him to see how it feels. If it's bad and he does not like it I told him I'll string it again for free. Besides, he did not even pay 7.00$ for this string job, so I think he was okay with it.
     
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  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Well do matter what you do yes it could slip but if you use a business card it won't damage the string.
     
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  30. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    This. The adjustment screw on crank machines doesn't open or close the gripper as it seems that it does. At least it didn't on the two I had.
     
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  31. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^That because it is not an adjustment actually. It is a stop screw the tighter you make it (turning clockwise) the more the stop sticks out and the less travel you get. As the gripper travels it closes the less it travels the loser it is.
     
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  32. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    Just for clarification.
    Are we talking about scuffing from too loose, or ghosting?
    Some strings, like Sensation or natgut, will ghost no matter what you do.
    That bothered me at first(still does,really), but I've learned to live with it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
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  33. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay guys, I turned the screw counter-clock wise and clock wise. Irvin, I know you told me to turn it counter clock wise to start with, but I turned it clock wise just to see what would happen. Well, I'm running out of ideas, the tensioner is still scuffing the string, I need help fast. I have been telling my clients that I am having problems with my stringer and that I will do their racquets as soon as I get it fixed.


    So please, I really need help.


    R.W
     
    #33
  34. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    The business card trick should work to keep you from scuffing the string--just fold it in half and place the creased side (the V) in the tensioner--put the string in that V and you will be set for the sticks you currently have. How old is your stringer--either call Prince or tennis machines and see if you can get another head while yours gets fixed. Still puzzled at this problem.
     
    #34
  35. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay, sorry I have not gotten back to all of you about this problem, but the gripper is still scuffing, and the business card will not fit in the gripper if you fold it into a V. I even tried adjusting the screw and nothing happened.
     
    #35
  36. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Well Roger, if you sent it to tennis machines dot com and had it serviced like I told you about 2 weeks ago, you would have received it back by now and back in buisness.Each day without it you are loosing buisness, but its your buisness.
     
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  37. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ^Normally I would be losing business, luckily my close friend who is very into the tennis world having played on the futures circuit for a couple years has a prince neos 1000. So he has been a saint for letting me take it from him until I get my problem squared away.
     
    #37
  38. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Since you have a machine to use presently, I would make use of this time that you have with your friends machine, and send the tension head of your machine out asap to get it serviced so you will not be having your friends machine tied up with you for a long time.You are lucky to have someone to loan you a machine.
    Since it has been 2 weeks already and you still have issues, why wait any longer to resolve the issue?Just send it out for service unless you plan on purchasing another machine or your friend does not mind you keeping his, but thats just taking advantage of his thoughtfulness.


    Also since you said this comment above, your comment on having your friends stringer does not go along with that statement at all, as if you have your friends stringer you would not be telling your clients that you have problems. Looks like your story is just that a story, while good folks here are trying to help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
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  39. bugeyed

    bugeyed Semi-Pro

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    Nag, nag, nag! ;)

    Cheers,
    kev
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
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  40. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    jim e, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. common sense would dictate this is the action to take. but i think NJ1's post might be applicable here.

     
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  41. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    RW -

    Call tennismachines. Speak with JC. In the past, when I had issues with my crank, they sent me a loaner to use while they serviced mine. I guarantee you they can turn it around in a week or less.
     
    #41
  42. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, and I forgot to mention that the guys at Tennismachines are so good that they may be able to diagnose what is wrong by your description and step you through fixing it.
     
    #42
  43. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Okay, Thanks Rabbit, I'll contact them and see what they can do. Thank you to the rest of you also, you guys were nice enough to take the time to help me with many different stringing questions and problems of mine. Thank You!:)
     
    #43
  44. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    Hey guys, I did not want to start a new thread just about this but I had a question. Do you think it is necessary do pull hard weeves twice? I do not pull them twice anytime, but I wanted to know your opinion.
     
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  45. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    With a lockout yes with a constant pull no. You use a NEOS 1000 so yes you should. You would be better off if you avoided hard weaves with a lockout.
     
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