Creatin and tennis?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by kalic, Dec 28, 2007.

  1. kalic

    kalic Professional

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    Anyone you tennis players ever try creatin? I know that it will increase my overall strenght, but can I loose feeling for the game? I am 31, skinny but good muscule definition...
     
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  2. HoboWithARolex

    HoboWithARolex New User

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    creatine wont increase muscle strength alone, it will increase muscle endurance

    creatine increase the stores of ATP (what your muscles burn) within your muscles allowing you to squeeze out another rep or two while lifting in effect helping you get stronger

    if you use standard creatine monohydrate expect to gain a good amount of water as much as 15lbs so it can slow you down but if your lifting and get stronger espicialy in your legs, when you come off creatine you could be quicker

    creatine should be cycled on and off six weeks at a time, going on forever will reduce your bodies own creatine production and the cycling prevents this
     
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  3. LanEvo

    LanEvo Hall of Fame

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    yea uh i wouldnt use creatine for tennis, because creatine is mainly used for weight lifting, so i wouldnt reccomend it for tennis
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2007
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  4. HyperHorse

    HyperHorse Banned

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    Would you stop and do some research before you post something stupid/inaccurate again??
     
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  5. HoboWithARolex

    HoboWithARolex New User

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    yeah levano creatine is 0% sugar
     
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  6. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    If you thought creatine was sugar please go read some medical studies.

    I'm pretty sure that there's no way you will gain 15 lbs of water if you take creatine. Of course that's because I'm also assuming you aren't a crazy huge person or extreme body builder. I'm also assuming that it's a safe assumption haha.

    Creatine (creatine phosphate) basically just donates its phosphate molecule to the body to help produce ATP. ATP stands for adenosine (adenine being one of the nucleotides in DNA), TP standing for TriPhosphate. ATP is very important as it can be seen as energy currency in the body.

    ADP also exists, but it only has two phosphate molecules. When creatine donates its phosphate, the DP becomes TP and the body has to do less work to produce it on its own. I "use" it and I recommend it as long as you do your part and decide if it'll help you by reading up on it. Keep in mind I also work out regularly and pound the cardio pretty hard. It's no miracle supplement by any means but it does help out and there are no real side effects as long as you stay properly hydrated.

    You be the judge if it's good for you or not because it's your body. It won't slow you down and I imagine that a ton of athletes are using it because it's not an anabolic steroid and probably not outlawed since it's found in red meat in small amounts...then again they could check levels.

    Anyways, do your reading! www.pubmed.com


    *edit* Hobo..could you post where you read that? I've never seen anything like that but i'm not outlawing it or anything. I'm by no means an authority on creatine or much of anything for that matter :p
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2007
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  7. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Creatine is not really a tennis player's supplement because tennis requires a lot more running than sudden power movements such as going up to bat like Mark McGwire when he was taking creatine. Creatine works well for weight lifters and sprinters, but for endurance athletes, creatine could have a negative effect because you gain water weight and extra weight will slow you down. To reiterate, creatine is good for short bursts of energy, but don't use it if you're doing it for tennis.
     
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  8. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    I would have to disagree Rickson. You might be overestimating creatine here. It's good for recovering/ aiding the recovery of your breath (since heavy breathing is a sign that you're making atp) and getting that one last burst of energy out--things that seem to occur pretty often in tennis. Tennis (to me at least) seems like a whole bunch of interval workouts: 30 seconds of recovery combined with a varying length of sometimes brutal exercise.

    I would be interested to see how common it is amongst the pros.
     
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  9. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    OK, now you know how much I hate that, don't you? ;)
     
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  10. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    :p just had to say it. I'm just reporting one teen's (my own) experiences with the stuff.


    Maybe it was different back when you walked uphill both ways in the snow to school with mutton padded sandals while carrying a 500 pound oxen on your back, but this is how it is for me :)
     
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  11. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    That would be my grandfather's day and besides, I can snatch girls your age away from you teens any day. We older cats are smoothe operators and we actually pay for dinner, unlike you teenagers going dutch and all that. Don't let me meet any girls you like. You'll be sorry, mister.
     
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  12. HoboWithARolex

    HoboWithARolex New User

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    10-15lbs is just my personal experience, i usualy use about 10g a day
     
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  13. HoboWithARolex

    HoboWithARolex New User

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    thats why i said as much as 15lbs, im also reasonably big and muscular

    ps, how do u edit posts?
     
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  14. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You need to get some posts under your belt before you can do that. Would you like to have some of mine?
     
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  15. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    :-| I don't hang out with guys like that Rickson. If that's another stereotype, I take pride (again) in not adding to it!


    *edit* ps: take rickson's posts...he has too many! KEEPS AWAYS FROM MY POSTSSSSSSSSSSSSSESESSSSSSSSSS lol
     
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  16. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Well, that's why. You're only supposed to use 3-5 grams a day.
     
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  17. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with this, but some guys are taking 10-20 grams per day. Putting on 15 lbs in under 3 to 6 monthis is tough to do unless you are already a huge guy, IMHO.

    -Robert
     
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  18. 0range

    0range Hall of Fame

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    Well from my personal experience taking Creatine/carb shake (about 6g of creatine and 40g carb) just before tennis really increased my performance... at a pretty noticeable level. Could be the carb tho.
     
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  19. Edberg_Fan

    Edberg_Fan New User

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    You guys on Creatine notice better muscle recovery after playing tennis. My arms sometimes feel sore the next day and think that Creatine can help with better recovery...? Thoughts???
     
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  20. vince916

    vince916 Semi-Pro

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    I take Gaspari Size-On which is a creatine mix along with whey protein. I take for lifting though and not for tennis.
     
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  21. chroix

    chroix Rookie

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    Creatine is not good for you. If you want to gain weight and muscle, work out very hard, lift and eat a lot of good calories. Rinse and repeat. I've done this for years now, adding 35 lbs of muscle, without more than a percentage or two of body fat, and without destroying my kidneys in the process. Plus creatine makes you angry and aggressive.
     
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  22. vince916

    vince916 Semi-Pro

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    best post out of this thread ::mrgreen:
     
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  23. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    I really don't see downsides to creatine as long as you're cycling it and drinking plenty of water.

    I also don't make distinctions between weights and endurance. Muscle is muscle and it is assisted in its function by creatine. Creatine is found naturally in food and boosting this creatine level is going to further aid the muscle.

    Taking too much makes me **** though. So avoid taking too much and avoid crawling beneath me when I do.
     
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  24. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, Creatine IS an Anabolic Steroid, and will destroy your kidney, bones and brain. Creatine will also shrink your testicles.

    In fact, creatine supplement is the most useless and dangerous supplement ever.

    Of course, only a guy who lives in the seventies said that. :)

    If you want the truth, Creatine will NOT destroy your kidney.

    A study examined whether or not oral creatine supplementation affected the kidneys of athletes over short-, medium-, and long-term periods of supplementation.

    The researchers concluded that "no detrimental effects on athletes' kidney functions from short-, medium-, or long-term use of this supplement.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449011?dopt=AbstractPlus

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Aug;31(8):1108-10.

    Comment in:

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2000 Jan;32(1):248-9.

    Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes.

    Poortmans JR, Francaux M.

    Chimie Physiologique, Institut Supérieur d'Education Physique et de Kinésithérapie, Université Libre de Bruxelles, Brussels, Belgium. jrpoortm@ulb.ac.be

    PURPOSE: Oral creatine supplementation is widely used in sportsmen and women. Side effects have been postulated, but no thorough investigations have been conducted to support these assertions.

    It is important to know whether long-term oral creatine supplementation has any detrimental effects on kidney function in healthy population.

    METHODS: Creatinine, urea, and plasma albumin clearances have been determined in oral creatine consumers (10 months to 5 yr) and in a control group.

    RESULTS: There were no statistical differences between the control group and the creatine consumer group for plasma contents and urine excretion rates for creatinine, urea, and albumin. Clearance of these compounds did not differ between the two groups. Thus, glomerular filtration rate, tubular reabsorption, and glomerular membrane permeability were normal in both groups.

    CONCLUSIONS: Neither short-term, medium-term, nor long-term oral creatine supplements induce detrimental effects on the kidney of healthy individuals.

    PMID: 10449011 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
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  25. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    I assume you don't eat meat then. Creatine is found in all meat.

    You have 1-2% body fat? Liar.

    You're making me angry and aggressive. Or maybe it's all this uncut Colombian creatine I've been snorting.
     
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  26. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Here's another study :

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...bmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2002 Dec;12(4):453-60.

    Effects of long-term creatine supplementation on liver and kidney functions in American college football players.

    Mayhew DL, Mayhew JL, Ware JS.

    Exercise Science Program, Truman State University, Kirksville, MO 63501, USA.

    The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of long-term Cr supplementation on blood parameters reflecting liver and kidney function.

    Twenty-three members of an NCAA Division II American football team (ages = 19-24 years) with at least 2 years of strength training experience were divided into a Cr monohydrate group (CrM, n = 10) in which they voluntarily and spontaneously ingested creatine, and a control group (n = 13) in which they took no supplements.

    Individuals in the CrM group averaged regular daily consumption of 5 to 20 g (mean SD = 13.9 5.8 g) for 0.25 to 5.6 years (2.9 1.8 years).

    Venous blood analysis for serum albumin, alkaline phosphatase, alanine aminotransferase, aspartate aminotransferase, bilirubin, urea, and creatinine produced no significant differences between groups.

    Creatinine clearance was estimated from serum creatinine and was not significantly different between groups.

    Within the CrM group, correlations between all blood parameters and either daily dosage or duration of supplementation were nonsignificant.

    Therefore, it appears that oral supplementation with CrM has no long-term detrimental effects on kidney or liver functions in highly trained college athletes in the absence of other nutritional supplements.

    PMID: 12500988 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2008
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  27. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Another one:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...bmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1

    Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Feb;244(1-2):95-104.

    Long-term creatine supplementation does not significantly affect clinical markers of health in athletes.

    Kreider RB, Melton C, Rasmussen CJ, Greenwood M, Lancaster S, Cantler EC, Milnor P, Almada AL.


    Exercise and Sport Nutrition Laboratory, Department of Human Movement Sciences and Education, The University of Memphis, Memphis, TN, USA. Richard_Kreider@baylor.edu

    Creatine has been reported to be an effective ergogenic aid for athletes.


    However, concerns have been raised regarding the long-term safety of creatine supplementation.

    This study examined the effects of long-term creatine supplementation on a 69-item panel of serum, whole blood, and urinary markers of clinical health status in athletes.

    Over a 21-month period, 98 Division IA college football players were administered in an open label manner creatine or non-creatine containing supplements following training sessions.

    Subjects who ingested creatine were administered 15.75 g/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 days and an average of 5 g/day thereafter in 5-10 g/day doses.

    Fasting blood and 24-h urine samples were collected at 0, 1, 1.5, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17, and 21 months of training. A comprehensive quantitative clinical chemistry panel was determined on serum and whole blood samples (metabolic markers, muscle and liver enzymes, electrolytes, lipid profiles, hematological markers, and lymphocytes).

    In addition, urine samples were quantitatively and qualitative analyzed to assess clinical status and renal function.


    At the end of the study, subjects were categorized into groups that did not take creatine (n = 44) and subjects who took creatine for 0-6 months (mean 4.4 +/- 1.8 months, n = 12), 7-12 months (mean 9.3 +/- 2.0 months, n = 25), and 12-21 months (mean 19.3 +/- 2.4 months, n = 17).

    Baseline and the subjects' final blood and urine samples were analyzed by MANOVA and 2 x 2 repeated measures ANOVA univariate tests. MANOVA revealed no significant differences (p = 0.51) among groups in the 54-item panel of quantitative blood and urine markers assessed.

    Univariate analysis revealed no clinically significant interactions among groups in markers of clinical status. In addition, no apparent differences were observed among groups in the 15-item panel of qualitative urine markers.

    Results indicate that long-term creatine supplementation (up to 21-months) does not appear to adversely effect markers of health status in athletes undergoing intense training in comparison to athletes who do not take creatine.

    PMID: 12701816 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
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  28. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    chroix=owned. Probably shouldn't shoot off at the mouth when you have nothing behind your words.
     
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  29. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Another one:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...bmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1

    1: Sports Med. 2000 Sep;30(3):155-70

    Adverse effects of creatine supplementation: fact or fiction?

    Poortmans JR, Francaux M.

    Physiological Chemistry, Higher Institute of Physical Education and Readaptation, Free University of Brussels, Bruxelles, Belgium. jrpoortm@ulb.ac.be

    The consumption of oral creatine monohydrate has become increasingly common among professional and amateur athletes.

    Despite numerous publications on the ergogenic effects of this naturally occurring substance, there is little information on the possible adverse effects of this supplement.

    The objectives of this review are to identify the scientific facts and contrast them with reports in the news media, which have repeatedly emphasised the health risks of creatine supplementation and do not hesitate to draw broad conclusions from individual case reports.

    Exogenous creatine supplements are often consumed by athletes in amounts of up to 20 g/day for a few days, followed by 1 to 10 g/day for weeks, months and even years. Usually, consumers do not report any adverse effects, but body mass increases.

    There are few reports that creatine supplementation has protective effects in heart, muscle and neurological diseases.

    Gastrointestinal disturbances and muscle cramps have been reported occasionally in healthy individuals, but the effects are anecdotal.

    Liver and kidney dysfunction have also been suggested on the basis of small changes in markers of organ function and of occasional case reports, but well controlled studies on the adverse effects of exogenous creatine supplementation are almost nonexistent.

    We have investigated liver changes during medium term (4 weeks) creatine supplementation in young athletes. None showed any evidence of dysfunction on the basis of serum enzymes and urea production.

    Short term (5 days), medium term (9 weeks) and long term (up to 5 years) oral creatine supplementation has been studied in small cohorts of athletes whose kidney function was monitored by clearance methods and urine protein excretion rate.

    We did not find any adverse effects on renal function. The present review is not intended to reach conclusions on the effect of creatine supplementation on sport performance, but we believe that there is no evidence for deleterious effects in healthy individuals.


    PMID: 10999421 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
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  30. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Another one :

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...bmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1

    J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2004 Dec;44(4):411-6.

    Is the use of oral creatine supplementation safe?

    Bizzarini E, De Angelis L.

    School of Sports Medicine, University of Trieste, Trieste, Italy.

    This review focuses on the potential side effects caused by oral creatine supplementation on gastrointestinal, cardiovascular, musculoskeletal, renal and liver functions.

    No strong evidence linking creatine supplementation to deterioration of these functions has been found. In fact, most reports on side effects, such as muscle cramping, gastrointestinal symptoms, changes in renal and hepatic laboratory values, remain anecdotal because the case studies do not represent well-controlled trials, so no causal relationship between creatine supplementation and these side-effects has yet been established.

    The only documented side effect is an increase in body mass.

    Furthermore, a possibly unexpected outcome related to creatine monohydrate ingestion is the amount of contaminants present that may be generated during the industrial production.

    Recently, controlled studies made to integrate the existing knowledge based on anecdotal reports on the side effects of creatine have indicated that, in healthy subjects, oral supplementation with creatine, even with long-term dosage, may be considered an effective and safe ergogenic aid.

    However, athletes should be educated as to proper dosing or to take creatine under medical supervision.

    PMID: 15758854 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
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  31. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Yeah, I did own him didn't I. All that extra "science" that Ano posted didn't hurt either.
     
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  32. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Do the work yourself and don't go for shortcuts. Also, for tennis you don't want extra body mass.
     
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  33. vince916

    vince916 Semi-Pro

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    nm 10cghar
     
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  34. chroix

    chroix Rookie

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    I stand corrected, lots of studies showing that it is not bad for your kidneys if taken correctly, and that is probably pretty critical. The anger issues are just what friends of mine who take it regularly have told me. It also apparently causes gas and diarrhea.

    " athletes should be educated as to proper dosing or to take creatine under medical supervision."
    Does the package come with this or do you have to seek it out? How many do, or do most people just guess or come to internet messageboards? Clearly there is a chance of misuse leading to health risks.

    Ano, are you a rep for them or do you just take posting very seriously? I really appreciate the thoroughness and the info you bring. I've got to say I am a little skeptical of clinical trials that contradict peoples reports and concerns. They are easily manipulated and usually not paid for by objective parties. As an example:
    http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0040005&ct=1

    Honestly I could care less, whether people choose to take creatine or not, I was sharing what I'd heard my friends that use it tell me and conveyed it to someone looking for advice. I said to go the natural route, I still do.

    stormholloway, I do eat some meat, but not a lot, mostly fish. I also try to eat mostly organic.

    iradical, you come across as a total sycophant. What do you have behind your words? Ano? He takes care of himself, can you?
     
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  35. mista-k

    mista-k Rookie

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    sad to say the creatine they sell these days are watered down versions of the "illegal creatine" back in the 80-90s...creatine is effective in high dosages>tells your brain to do a few more reps

    Glutamine is the ingredient which helps muscle recovery...
    you can find them in WHEY protein drinks(better for bulkin up/52grams per serving!!!)...or in pill form
     
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  36. jmverdugo

    jmverdugo Hall of Fame

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    I use creatine just when i do my weekly weigh lifting routine, i have found that it does help my muscles to recover faster, im not that sore the next day and can play tennis with no problem. I have no problem with my mood, im a cranky person by nature ;), and no problem whatsoever.
     
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  37. Ocean Drive

    Ocean Drive Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you but 1 or 2% body fat? no way.

    I mean, Ronnie Coleman during competition used to come in at around 3. something...
     
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  38. chroix

    chroix Rookie

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    Sorry should have said only adding an additional 1 or 2%. I'm crazy, but not that carzy.
     
    #38
  39. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    The only issue I have with most creatine is quality. Much of it is made in CHINA. The German stuff is good, but I'm not too sure about the cheap Chinese stuff.

    -Robert
     
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  40. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    Creatine gets broken down before it is absorbed. A good way for pharmaceutical companies to make money though. -my anatomy prof-
     
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  41. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    I'm the biggest creatine producer and seller in the world. All creatine studies were funded by me. That's the reason why your friends have more credibility than the researchers.

    Chess9, I agree with you. Just as there is a difference between $100 champagne and $15 dollar champagne, there's a difference between high-quality creatine and inferior-grade creatine.

    Chinese creatine is a lower quality product, with more contaminants such as creatinine, sodium, dicyandiamide, and dihydrotriazine.

    German creatine, from companies such as SKW (Creapure™), are cleaner, purer products.

    To other posters, if you want to buy creatine, always look for "creapure" on the label.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2008
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  42. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    This is true. Ano's real name is Bill Phillips, and in his sparetime, he sleeps with Playboy bunnies while collecting buttplugs.

    To an extend, some of it does (and this is where the gastric distress happens.) Really depends on the delivery system formulated for the creatine. The expensive brands have higher quality delivery systems.
     
    #42
  43. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for clarifying this.

    Yes, I'm Bill Phillips, the owner of EAS company and the Author of BODY FOR LIFE. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2008
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  44. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    In fact, I'm Ano/Bill's brother Shawn. He has a unhealthy interest in my half naked body (especially my abs, which rock BTW), but hey it pays my bills. It's not as if I have a real job or anything. ;)
     
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