Cristophe Rochus: Doping rampant, mentions Nadal and Soderling

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by President, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. President

    President Legend

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    Credit to MTF for this article



    http://www.rue89.com/rue89-sport/20...-est-une-realite-pourquoi-ne-pas-le-legaliser


    Very interesting stuff
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
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  2. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Nadal's name is not in the passage you quoted...
     
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  3. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I don't doubt that doping happens. In fact, I bet it happens way more than we'd like to imagine. But, other than the players who were actually caught, it's all rank speculation as to who has doped and when, which never leads to any productive discussion.
     
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  4. President

    President Legend

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    I just posted the full interview, read again.
     
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  5. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    But he hasn't played tennis since last year Wimbledon.
     
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  6. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Like the UCI, I think it would be completely unacceptable to ban players from a sport in silence. Now if you have a temporary suspension to wait for confirmation of results, that's entirely different, but if there truly are positive doping cases in tennis, imo everything should be done to make sure this becomes clear and becomes a serious issue.

    I also think that we should not go the way of a more and more physical sport.
     
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  7. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    History repeats itself. This is exactly how it was in cycling. In the beginning no one believed or wanted to believe it. Specially not the ardent fangirls. But smart guys like Rochus and me, we see through the clouds. Nadal is probably the main culprit. Sod mentioning surprised me a bit though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
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  8. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    This. And this is why all the testing and stuff should be increased BIG TIME. However, there's no incentive for the ATP or ITF to test more, because it costs money and catching players will cost them more money.
     
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  9. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Don't be naive. Djokovic 2.0 was because of eating glutenfree? Federer found out 'what was necessary to become a grandslam champ' in 2002 when he started working with some unknown italian coach? You can make a case for any top player, and individuals should be held innocent until proven otherwise. However, that doping is a serious problem in all sports can not be and should not be neglected.
     
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  10. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I agree with the comparison to cycling. And, I'd agree that there are a lot of interested parties who want to stick their head in the sand. I do believe there is significant doping, but I don't have proof of any particular individuals, so where can the discussion go, other than me stating "I do believe there is doping."

    As for Nadal, that would obviously be a huge story, but are people forgetting that he had legit injuries? This really could all be knee(s)-related.
     
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  11. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Oh you have taken down the original interview. I translated the last paragraph anyway.

    Dans cet entretien, Rochus, qui a quitté le haut niveau en 2010, défend une légalisation du dopage :

    « Plutôt que toute cette hypocrisie, je pense qu’il vaut mieux légaliser le dopage. Quand je dis ça, je m’entends dire que je ne peux pas avoir de tels propos parce que c’est pas bien et le dopage c’est dangereux. Mais en discutant avec des médecins, on constate qu’on n’est même pas sûr que ces produits soient si dangereux pour la santé. A ce moment-là chacun, en son âme et conscience, dit “ moi, je prends le risque... moi, je ne le prends pas... ”. »

    During this interview, Rochus, who quit high-level tennis in 2010, is a proponent of legalising doping:

    "Instead of all this hypocrisy, I believe it would be better to legalise doping. When I say this, I tell myself that I cannot believe such things because doping is bad and it's dangerous. But after having spoken to doctors, one discovers that we are not even sure these substances and that detrimental to health. Given this information, it's would be up to each individual to decide whether it's worth it to take the risk.


    Can't say I agree with him.
     
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  12. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Please...

    Rochus basically includes every player taller than he and his brother in his conspiracies (which is nearly everyone including WTA players).

    He also heavily insinuates Nole, but I see you ignored that...
     
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  13. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I feel for the Rochus's brothers since they are undersize as a tennis player, yet they are clean while many bigger players are doping. Totally unfair to them.
     
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  14. President

    President Legend

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    I agree with you, that's what I think his mention of the 5 hour semi was referencing. I would have included Djokovic in the title but he didn't actually mention him by name so....
     
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  15. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    I always knew Nadal was doping since 2005.
     
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  16. vllaznia

    vllaznia Semi-Pro

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    Just waiting to read again from Mustard saying that Lance Armstrong is innocent because he didn't fail a doping test.
     
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  17. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    No need. You can just sit in the Djokovic CVAC Egg for the same effects.
     
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  18. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Fine, Djokovic too! Happy? They're all dopers except for Federer. The field didn't stronger in 2008, it got doper.
     
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  19. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Why would Federer be exempt :confused:

    Going by outrageous athletic/physical performances he would be at the top including the other Big 4.
     
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  20. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Look at Federer's huge muscles.
     
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  21. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Fed plays a brand of style that isn't physically taxing on the body unlike Nadal. And Spain/Argentina are most widely known to take PED.
     
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  22. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Yes, that will be hilarious. I haven't seen him recently but I am looking forward to his reaction to what Lance said on Oprah.
     
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  23. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's best for Mustard to admit that he's wrong. Just come out clean like Armstrong did.
     
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  24. President

    President Legend

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    Does Lance Armstrong have huge muscles?
     
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  25. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    LOL...

    we've been thru this in another thread. Aesthetics does not always correlate to performance...

    But, performance alone is enough for you to allege Nadal doping/silent ban.

    Going by the same standard one could accuse Federer of the same...
     
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  26. marc45

    marc45 Legend

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    and how exactly did/do you know that?...and more importantly why are you wasting your time divulging it on this website and not in the new york times?...i'm sure chris clarey or jon wertheim would like to hear from you, or are they in on it too?
     
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  27. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Good point, but Federer hasn't had any real long absences from the sport in order to remove the drug metabolites from this blood. Some can have fairly long half-lifes.
     
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  28. President

    President Legend

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    And some don't. A man with Federer's huge resources (the guy is even wealthier than Lance Armstrong) can purchase designer drugs that are undetectable.
     
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  29. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

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    If that's your only reason for excluding him as a suspected user of PED's while you suspect Nadal, then you sir are an idiot.
     
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  30. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Until Fed play exactly like Nadal who's killing his body, and be out for 8+ months, not to mention many people have suspected Nadal, wake me up.
     
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  31. single_handed_champion

    single_handed_champion Professional

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    LOL. 'Many people' suspected Nadal for the same naive reasons as you and your ilk, namely that he doesn't tire (true of Roger as well) despite his gamestyle and has big muscles (which are puny compared to many athletes, must be said).

    I guess Rochus deserves the benefit of doubt for his generally irresponsible speculations about Nadal and Soderling because he outed the Argentinians in the past (any proof of that anyway?). At least it gets people talking. But people will be biased and ignore facts i.e. that performance enhancers are very different from steroids, that these athletes can be years ahead of the 'testing regime' (which is a joke), that no one could conceivably compete with these juiced-up specimens by staying clean.

    I don't wish to see everyone dope just so they perform superhuman feats. For one, it is certain to destroy their bodies. Secondly, I think their training already makes them superhumans compared to 99% of us, and the way they play the game itself is of sufficient intrigue without having see them perform acts we never would (by risking health). There can be a different tour for chemically enhanced athletics and sport.
     
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  32. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    But Lance Armstrong didn't fail a doping test. So where's innocent until proven guilty? The system is full of plea bargains, thereby corrupting the whole process. I don't see how any conviction can be safe in such an environment as that. I read in a newspaper yesterday that the USADA wanted to do a deal with Armstrong to allow him to keep his first 5 Tour de France titles. When Armstrong refused all their plea bargains, and then said that he would no longer defend himself, the USADA went for the maximum punishment, and then the USADA had the audacity to act like a drug free sport was their motivation for throwing the whole damn library at Armstrong. Their real reason was to punish Armstrong for resisting all their plea bargains.
     
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  33. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    He's still a lying, filthy doper. He admitted he doped, and did everything he could do to avoid getting caught. He's scum.
     
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  34. President

    President Legend

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    What? The guy has now apparently ADMITTED to doping. What more do you want?
     
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  35. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Sure, but by that logic Mother Teresa is also a doper. The point is you have to go after the most likely cases first.
     
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  36. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    With the plea bargaining system, how do we know that someone hasn't said to Armstrong "admit to doping, or you'll be in jail and bankrupt etc."? The fact is, we don't know, as plea bargaining corrupts the whole process. It is blackmail, where the blackmailers have all the power.

    If you don't even fail a drugs test according to the laws of cycling, why are you even treated as guilty in the first place?
     
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  37. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    I think Rochus was touching more on the point that the ATP may be disguising bans/suspensions instead of going lax on drug tests.

    Giving more frequent and more thorough tests is one thing, but the ATP handing out public bans and suspensions for positive tests is another. I'm wondering if maybe PED use is so rampant that to penalize all players involved would virtually end the sport.
     
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  38. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    What's it going to take for you to realize that Lance doped himself silly? This level of denial is certainly not helping anything.
     
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  39. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    He's admitting on OPRAH for godsakes. You have you learn to deflate you ego occasionally.
     
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  40. reversef

    reversef Hall of Fame

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    Stop that nonsense, Mustard. Things are very clear, and have been for quite a while.
     
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  41. single_handed_champion

    single_handed_champion Professional

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    Mother Teresa doping is irrelevant, since she would not be tested by WADA, and I am sure nobody would think any less of her for doing it.

    And who is to say who are the likeliest cases? To me, a guy who runs and runs but is clearly a physical specimen is no more suspicious than someone much older who keeps up with him for hours and even prevails over him (apart from others his same age with sudden and quite incredible spurts in performance).
     
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  42. Speranza

    Speranza Hall of Fame

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    We don't know. You're right, plea bargaining corrupts the process.

    But another 'fact', as you say, is that he was doping and is publicly admitting it.

    Whether treated as guilty or not, as you say again, he was doping.

    Mustard, you're admired by many here, including myself, but to quote someone else in another thread, you're splitting a hair into four here etc. You're trying to change the goal posts now that he's admitted it himself, to a goal regarding corruption and plea bargaining. Please, for your good name. Stop :)

    It matters not that the governing body are corrupt, as I'm sure most sports governing bodies are guilty of at some stage - heck, as most people are at some stage in their lives. The point is, even if others were doing so (and it's sickening that one particular is making money from admitting it), Lance Armstrong was doping.
     
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  43. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    I'm talking about the constant absences, the flu virus crap and the practicing on clay the next day :). Come on, let's get real.
     
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  44. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    He's admitted to doping and STILL will have to pay back millions of dollars and has had his legacy tarnished forever. The guy fought for so many years all of the allegations, why would he give up now if he was truly innocent? I was looking, and finally found, the one person that still believes Lance to be innocent, even after he says he's guilty.

    As for tennis, I wouldn't be surprised if anyone not named Fed, hell even Fed, were found to be a doper. Djok goes from barely being able to finish matches in the heat at AO to being able to take down Nadal in 5-6 hour marathons at the same event a few years later? Sod goes from being a journeyman player to beating Nadal at RG and being a top 5 player? I have suspicions of everyone now.
     
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  45. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

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    Well I mean look at Rafa, he's paying for playing that way... How many slams has he missed already in his career. How many has Fed missed?

    I just don't see how you can say Rafa uses PED's while Fed who has never retired from a match, or missed any slams in his career doesn't...
     
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  46. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    This is the reason why teens aren't pulling upsets and there are none in the Top 100. The last teen to win a major went from being a skinny kid to muscular 18 yr old able to physically outplay the top guys. Guess he had the football connections through family to get some vitamins early on.

    Most teens don't have that kind of money or connections.
     
    #46
  47. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    I hope when murray is found to be using he has his gold medal and us open taken away.

    The only top players i would be amazed if they were using would be delpotro and berdych. The fact that federer is never out of breath is suspicious but i dont think he would.
     
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  48. President

    President Legend

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    Why the hell would you be amazed at Del Potro and Berdych doping? Just like Soderling, both had dramatic breakthroughs and are huge ball bashers. Have you seen the size of Berdych's quads?
     
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  49. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    Seriously. It sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me. I still root for Olivier but rarely have seen Christophe play.

    Tips talked about how he was randomly tested while he was away and practicing. I believe they do this randomly.

    If everyone's is doing it then it should be easy to get some proof or an eyewitness account but there's nothing. C. Rochus offers no proof so why bring it up? It's libel, I think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
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  50. Speranza

    Speranza Hall of Fame

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    I'm a Federer fan, but I agree entirely with this point. Ralph is suspected due to his physique but mostly due to his playing style. It's unlikely he would want to bulk up, for that won't help him. However, endurance is the matter concerned. At this stage, everyone comes into the discussion.

    I'm not trying to say Federer is guilty, but that the endurance aspect of his game works against him in such discussions.

    Who would stand to lose more if they were caught? And by caught I'm *implying that the facts were made public for the sake of this conversation. Who? Federer. Now, with all those sponsoring him, and the millions he's worth, do you not think research was done by those companies involved? How much damage could be done to them if Federer was found to be guilty?

    BUT, *, I don't believe that if some of the bigger names were caught that the findings would be made public.
     
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