Cristophe Rochus: Doping rampant, mentions Nadal and Soderling

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by President, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. marc45

    marc45 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,722
    Location:
    Ohio
    good post, but i don't know about players saying it's a problem..fed and murray said there should be more testing but did they say that's because they know there is doping...and for those like ex noah how exactly would a player know that about another player?...what evidence do they have?... btw, armstrong had a whole team thing going on...are players doing this with other players or in front of them?

    it would be a sad day if one of these top guys were proven to have done it...we are in an historical time and it would crush the record books like the home run race in baseball
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  2. marc45

    marc45 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,722
    Location:
    Ohio
    so this article is two years old, didn't even realize that
     
  3. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7,224
    Love me some Nadal... But if Lance is doping, imagine what the hell Nadal was on.. Or Lebron James in basketball.

    Ayye.. I would hate to guess. I can't believe its only been Lance as the big name getting the axe from the public and caught..

    Take pro sports players in general today and I bet without a doubt we got 90 percent of them doping like crazy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  4. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,423
    Rookie indeed...
     
  5. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,509
    I wonder if the greatest darts athlete of all time, Phil Taylor, is juicing?
     
  6. Candide

    Candide Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    Yabba, the greatest little place on Earth
    Hall of Fame indeed...
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  7. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,336
    Location:
    On the courts; hard & clay ...
    i like following tennis because the players look like normal people. healthy, athletic, trained, talented and determined but still normal looking people. not 2.5 meters tall, 150kg of muscles but never get out of breath with massive veins running across their cheeks and face like in some other sports.

    leave that for the comic books please.

    Tennis is the sport where the shorter slim guy with the crafty spins and good movement can beat the 6ft9 guy who blasts the ball around. skill matters. i hope it doesn't turn into horse racing. This is depressing.
     
  8. DRII

    DRII Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,423
    Exactly; watch and learn.
     
  9. Speranza

    Speranza Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3,008
    Location:
    Baker Street, London Town
    Yep!!!!! :)
     
  10. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,068
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Phil Taylor likes Chinese suppers. He likes the juice from chow meins and chop sueys. He's a genius on the dartboard, and one of the best of all time in any sport. As the late, great Sid Waddell once said, if Phil Taylor had been at the Battle of Hastings, the Normans would have stayed home.
     
  11. President

    President Legend

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,969
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    How does one get their hands on these things?
     
  12. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,509
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,068
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Phil won his 16th world title a couple of weeks ago. Nobody else has more than 5.
     
  14. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,509
    Well that settles it. Legendary!
     
  15. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,443

    You have to have a friend like I do, who has thousands of inventions that are used by the elite. And as such, they allow him to make a few things for family and friends, that they would NEVER allow to the public. No one would get sick or die.
     
  16. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,068
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Glad you agree :)
     
  17. Walenty

    Walenty Professional

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,146
    At the end of the day this is still a claim with zero evidence to back it up....
     
  18. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,759
    If nobody doped Fed would have never lost a match.:)After all age nearly 32 he is still doing more than good against a dope field.:) At this age he still moves really well and serves well and still ranked 2 because of all natural talent, we shouldnt get suspicious about the guy.:)
    Nadal has a physical game,so many people predicted he would have injury problems,but now the guy says ı got injured.The same group of people thinks he isnt injured.:)It is Nadal we have to ask serious questions right ??
    Djokovic becomes our family Terminator in 2011 because of gluten free diet,but never mind.

    To think one is on dopes the other one totally clean,that what being a stupid fan is
    all about.
    Fed fans can easily say OHHH he is naturally talented.I can say Nadal is naturally athletic and strong.Djokovic fans can say gluten allergy cost him an early dominance in his career.

    I think all of the players creates question marks in your head if you really not just look the issue with fanaticism.If you choose to believe you can also find reasons to believe all of them as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  19. Nitish

    Nitish Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    898
  20. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,671
    There is a long history of governing bodies in sport covering p drug use when it comes to the top athletes, why should tennis be any different? There's too much money, too much image involved.

    Nadal is definitely one of the top suspects, because of his freakish recovery times, the mysterious absences which are conveniently timed, and is he still insisting that he doesn't lift weights ?
     
  21. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686
    What about Cvac? Is he not a "top suspect" too? I think he the biggest suspect playing right now, and has been for the past 2 years.
     
  22. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,831
    So, not only do you seem to be condoning cheating, but also aggressively attacking and threatening to sue those who have the temerity to even accuse you of cheating(which both Armstrong and Jones did). Furthermore, you came to the shocking conclusion that when somebody who is guilty resists plea bargains, he or she tends to get a stiff sentence when they are found guilty. See, that's the whole POINT...:rolleyes:
     
  23. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,831
    Yeah, I'm sure you DO. Has he been fined multiple times for illegal coaching? Has he admitted in print that he is illegally coached? Has he had mysterious injuries after embarrassing losses? No? NICE comparison...
     
  24. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,068
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    No, I'm not condoning cheating. I'm condemning a corrupt process that uses plea bargains, which forces the suspect/defendant to admit guilt in return for a "lesser" punishment, and if they refuse to plea bargain (whether they did the alleged crime or not), they get the whole book thrown at them. It gives the prosecution lawyers all the power. It's clear to me that a fair process is impossible when plea bargaining is involved, so any conviction is unsafe.
     
  25. President

    President Legend

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,969
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    I agree. He is an even more obvious doper than Nadal IMO, that gluten thing was a pile of stinky BS. No way his fitness and movement suddenly becomes AMAZING out of nowhere in 1 month, December 2010. Since then he has been a completely different player, thanks to a certain Dr. Igor.
     
  26. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686

    Totally agree. He is the most obvious case of doping I have ever seen in tennis. Nobody turns their entire career around overnight the way he did with a gluten-free diet. He went from a solid #3 player to a dominant #1, hardly losing any matches since late 2010. It's insulting to our intelligence the bs story he and his camp have tried to sell us for the past 2 years, and it's even more insulting that WADA and the ATP have gone right along with it.
     
  27. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    6,879
    This Lance Armstrong this has really got me thinking about the tennis players. All the top guys: Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, etc.

    If any of them were ever caught (or revealed to have been) doping, I would stop watching.
     
  28. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,355
    I probably wouldn't stop watching.

    I would be very sad though. I'd root for whoever was clean.
     
  29. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    what does all this have to do about Nadal not playing since his loss at Wimbledon last year, or his ban from Wimbledon in 2009?
     
  30. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686
    Any solid proof of this that doesn't include phantom practice videos and laptop girls?
     
  31. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    the fact he didn't play and was never injured. same as the last 8 months,,,,, or do you seriously think it takes 8 months to get over diarrhea?
     
  32. bjsnider

    bjsnider Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,065
    I think there's a lot of doping in all sports that's going undetected, and I think the press would love to take the past decade in tennis and tear it down -- there's nothing juicer than a big scandal, complete with 'should so-and-so be in the hall of fame?' type questions they can continue to write and talk about for many years afterwards.

    There's nothing we all dig more than building legends and then tearing them down.
     
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,068
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    The evidence in that dossier that got Armstrong banned was circumstantial, mostly based on the testimonies of plea bargained cyclists.

    And what plea bargains were they offered and what were they threatened with if they had refused? The USADA were willing to let Armstrong keep 5 of his Tour de France titles had he plea bargained at one stage, but Armstrong refused, and got a life ban and stripped of all his results back to 1998.

    Like I said, the whole process is corrupt and makes a fair trial, so to speak, impossible.

    Sorry, but the USADA were willing to let Armstrong to keep 5 Tours, if only he had plea bargained. Had Armstrong accepted, the USADA would have either buried evidence of Armstrong's long-term doping or stopped going crazy with their plea bargains on other cyclists to get Armstrong banned for life. As I said, a corrupt process.
     
  34. ctoth666

    ctoth666 Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    827
    Location:
    Woodstock, CT
    Honestly, I think testing should be dropped altogether. All of these doping scandals are nonsense. We know athletes are enhancing their performance and they always will, so why even have the policy to begin with? To live up to some BS code of morality? It's like the same nonsense as the Wars on Drugs in general: what's with the stigma? It's not a level playing field anyway, especially when you consider how much of a better natural athlete some tennis players are than others. Genetic advantages can be pretty steep.

    I say save some money and stop testing altogether. It apparently isn't even effective...
     
  35. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,726
    Location:
    Tennisville
    Mustard, forget the legal process. Here is a simple question to ponder - did Armstrong cheat by taking illegal substances or not? The man himself is now confessing to have done exactly that.

    I think you take denial and delusion to another level. Your long posts arguing everything from atp's new time violation rules to Nadal's time wasting tactics are one thing, but this takes the cake.
     
  36. xan

    xan Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,023
    its insulting you know nothing about gluten priblems in the first place yet your yackity yack doesn't seize. ever.
    its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, then speaking and removing all doubt. fits you perfectly.
     
  37. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,174
    Nadal is using enhancing drugs for years now. Anyone who thinks otherwise at this point is in denial.
     
  38. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,704
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    Mustard, you are known for not answering the incovinient questions, or, in case, that your supposed "credibility" as a poster is in danger, to resort to fanboyish or straightforward absurd answers, but I will try once again to talk to you with a logic and see where we get.


    Please, do provide the said dossier.

    And explain the word "mostly". Who are the others/ what are are the other facts, that point to Armstrong as a doper? Who decided, that the testimonies from his teammates are the deciding factor in his conviction?


    Proof?

    And, the most recent question: Why did Armstrong admit to have doped, if innocent? He already have been stripped of all his results.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  39. mmk

    mmk Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2011
    Messages:
    958
    If that were the case, I'd be hyper-hyper. I loves me some lindor.
     
  40. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    546
    While it is certainly possible Federer is doping, of the top players, he is the least likely.

    1) He never had a massive jump in his quality of play. Federer's play was acclaimed even as a teen. He actually won a slam later than most expected, and it was clear the major reason was a mental change (Federer would drop games as a teen, because he felt a call went against him). I haven't heard of any illegal drugs which are known to make you more calm and focused (and if they exist, maybe they shouldn't be illegal).

    2) Doping allows you to push your body further than it is naturally capable. This takes a toll on your muscles, ligaments, and bones. The fact that Federer has been able to go so many years without ever missing a grand slam, or retiring from games, indicates he rarely ever pushes his body beyond its natural physical limits.

    3) His style of play is such, he really doesn't need the doping. He isn't close to the strongest player on court, or the player with the most stamina. Of course, just because he doesn't need to be doping, doesn't mean he isn't. What it does mean is that a rational individual would be less likely to suspect him than other player go show superhuman fears of strength and stamina.
    4) He has consistently and constantly pushed for stricter rules against doping. Unlike other top players, he has never complained about anti-doping efforts, and has frequently said that they don't go far enough.

    Again, I don't think any modern tennis professional is above suspicion of doping. But Federer is possibly one of the least likely players in the top 10 to be doping.
     
  41. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,781
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    you are seriously deluded and shameless.

    man, there isnt sand deep enough to bury your head in when it comes to athletes you like, I suppose.
     
  42. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,781
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    why would admitting to oprah on a tv show have any impact on the legal justice system. you do realize that if armstrong had to "confess" it would be to proper authorities in exchange for a lack of chargers and something like that would have been reported to the media long ago, right?

    thats just stupid and you are beyond clutching at straws.

    pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  43. mmk

    mmk Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2011
    Messages:
    958
    Well, as those who have kids with ADHD can attest, there are drugs which can make you more calm and focused, e.g., adderall. ADD/ADHD drugs aren't necessarily illegal, but they are controlled substances. I don't know what the ITF rules are on these drugs, but in other sports they are legal if there is a prescription. However, I doubt that Fed is taking any such drug.
     
  44. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    14,579
    Oh my God Mustard, you are still denying and trying to come up with reasons to defend Armstrong? Just stop and admit defeat. You are looking like an absolute lunatic with this denial BS. You were wrong. Say it to yourself 20 times so you begin to believe it. ;)
     
  45. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    906
    That's ridiculous. Everyone with half a brain has known for eons that cycling has rampant doping.

    Same with baseball and the NFL.

    Tennis I'm not so sure about, because the guys aren't ridiculously huge, but their endurance, and ability to recover is somewhat suspect.

    They are taking something, but whether it's illegal or not is a different matter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  46. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,781
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    tee hee. I still remember last year's AO trophy ceremony where nadal was congratulating djoker and said something "i want to congratulate your team, they are doing an amazing job"

    man, the look, just for a second or two, that djoker shot rafa was pure ice cold like "watch it, buddy" LOL


    of course clarky will disagree, but it especially amused me. Like one doper saying to another "damn son, your docs blew mine out the water this year" lol.
     
  47. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,026
    On Testing:
    Gilles Simon: "I think this system is demanding but necessary to ensure that everybody can be tested anytime."

    Mahesh Bhupathi: "It is no fun. But to fight cheats I will do it. I am already giving my daily whereabouts to the association."

    Mike Bryan: "It's a little strict, but it's the same for everyone. It's gonna really clean up our sport. There will be no questions in anyone's head if anyone's cheating."

    Roger Federer: "I feel like this is how you’re going to catch them, right? You’re not going to catch them ringing them up and saying, 'Look, I would like to test you maybe in two days.' The guy’s cheating and they’re smart, right? It’s an hour a day. I know it’s a pain, but I would like it to be a clean sport, and that’s why I’m OK with it."

    Andy Murray: "These new rules are so draconian that it makes it almost impossible to live a normal life."

    Rafael Nadal: "It's not fair to have persecution like that...They make you feel like a criminal."

    All quotes from tennishasasteriodproblem.blogspot.com
     
  48. Rocky89

    Rocky89 Professional

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    816
    Location:
    Australia

    Please, he is just as likely as all the other guys. Everyone benefits from doping, regardless of game style.
     
  49. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    5,016
    Federer is the least likely to be doping. His progression was not overnight.

    The suspicious ones are those who went from zero to hero overnight like Nadal who won a mm title in 2004 and then in 2005 won 11 titles and Djokovic who went from winning one or two mm titles in 2010 to winning almost all the big titles, 10 of them, in 2011.
     
  50. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,233
    It's not ridiculous. Even just 7 or 8 years ago, on the cycling forums I'd say everyone is doping and there would be droves of people defending the sport as 99% clean and the few caught were exceptions. Only recently are people finally beginning to accept that the sport is very largely tainted. Mention sports like tennis, NFL, NBA, and people's mentality will be where it was a decade ago. But the truth is circulating under the public's noses.
     

Share This Page