Cristophe Rochus: Doping rampant, mentions Nadal and Soderling

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by President, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    In 2010, Djokovic won Dubai (ATP 500), and reached the USOpen final. He beated less than five top 10 players.
    In 2011, Djokovic won 3 slams, 5 masters 1000, went 10'000 - 1 against top 10 players.

    It is the biggest improvement in the history of tennis.
     
  2. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    Djokovic's is the biggest improvement in the history of tennis because he went from a weakling who retired all the time from matches and couldn't play in the heat to the player with the best endurance/stamina on tour by far.:shock:
     
  3. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    I don't remember in which matches he retired in 2010, nor in which of them he especially suffered from heat? I don't remember him playing any marathon matches in 2011?
     
  4. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    He played a long semi against Andy in Rome and then went out the very next day fresh as a daisy and won the final. Cvac wasn't really known for his incredible stamina prior to this, so this made me raise an eyebrow.

    He also went out and played a gruelling and long 3 set final in the heat and humidity of Miami, and was fresher than Nadal was after that match. Nadal was in sad shape and had to be given an IV for dehydration afterwards that match was so brutal. This is the match that solidified my suspicions about him that he was on something. No way on earth Cvac pre-Dr. Igor would have been able to do that.

    And look at what he did at the AO last year. Again, no way Cvac pre-Dr. Igor would have been able to outlast both Andy and Nadal in such long and gruelling matches before his magic potion in 2011. Cvac is the most obvious doper on the entire tour, and it is sickening how he still has not been caught and never will be because the ATP and WADA are as corrupt as corrupt gets.
     
  5. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Wait, professional players shouldn't be able to play two long best of 3 matches in a row?
     
  6. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I was pointing out how he struggled with his stamina prior to 2011 and then suddenly he became a physical beast over night who never tires and can outlast anyone. His entire turn around physically was explained away by a gluten-free diet. I will never believe he is clean, and if WADA and the ATP were serious about catching doper's he would have been caught by now.

    And the Cvac of old would have have a very tough time of it going out and playing 2 long matches in a row. His entire career up until then is proof enough of that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  7. Onehandedbackhand

    Onehandedbackhand Professional

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    Do I think Federer's taking something? Yup.

    Do I think Ferrer's taking something? Yup.

    Do I think Djoker's taking something? Yup.

    Do I think Nadal's taking something? Yup.

    On down the line.

    Do I condemn them for it? Not in the least.

    Different world, different time now. They all are, and they all will. The only time I'm going to condemn these substances is if they make one that allows you to work less to achieve the same results. These guys still have to work harder than any of us will ever really know.

    And even with it being a different world now, "performance enhancers" have been around for years and years and years. Anytime a pro athlete took cocaine or popped a couple pills before a game, it was because he was absolutely exhausted and needed some pep in his step(besides the fact that he was hooked too). That's a performance enhancer.

    They said Babe Ruth stayed out all night partying, then slept about three hours, then went to the ballpark and slammed three homers. I've slept three hours before, even one hour many times before, and I feel like I'm in another dimension even with coffee. You don't think he was taking something to give him a little pep?

    I'm not an advocate for these things...I'm just being honest. The Rochuses look bitter as hell with their standing, and Olivier will continue to get slaughtered by even the top 100. He hustles just as much as Ferrer, and Ferrer toyed with him because he's just stronger than Ollie. It's honorable to stay clean, but he's just going to get pounded in every first round.

    Because, I mean, have you SEEN Tim Smyczek?
     
  8. Onehandedbackhand

    Onehandedbackhand Professional

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    I believe he started taking them last year, not the year before.

    His gluten free diet did wonders, but he absolutely taxed out by the US Open in 2011. Just looked awful.
     
  9. fedfan46

    fedfan46 Rookie

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    this. Federer has not undergone visible body changes that would highlight steriod use at anytime during his career. In fact, his play has dropped off! Fed isn't a doper...
     
  10. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    You do not have to be muscle bound to be pumped full of peds. People need to get with the times badly on this subject.
     
  11. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    You might be right in the "everybody do it", but wrong in the "it doesn't matter". Because every players don't benefit in the same way by taking enhancer. Federer or Raonic, because of their game's style, wouldn't benefit as much from stamina enhancers than Ferrer or Nadal (they would still benefit from it, though). Drugs enhance the physical dimension of tennis, and thus help more the players whom game rely heavily on the physical dimension.
     
  12. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    In Fed's entire career there's never been a drastic change in his strength, endurance and recovery. He never suddenly became an iron man. He's clean and endorses more testing.

    I believe Gasquet is also clean. Whatever you think of his reasoning he got caught for coke and paid the price. He wouldn't risk such a thing again. It was not a fun time for him.

    Yes, some of the top guys have become iron men seemingly overnight but I give them the benefit of the doubt until someone steps up with proof.

    Listen, they caught Korda. It took a while but they eventually banned him for 12 months and he retired. I don't think Rios ever complained. The didn't strip Korda of his AO title.

    They were very tough on Coria who seemed to prove that his vitamins was contaminated. They still banned him.

    Soon they will all master perfectly legal ways to get an edge. Like the CVAC egg, ozone therapy & legal supplements.
     
  13. President

    President Legend

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    There are also drugs which enhance the mental side of tennis, like amphetamines which will give you much improved concentration and focus. How many times have you seen Djokovic bulgy eyed and ultra alert in pressure moments during a big match, looking he is on cocaine?
     
  14. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    Good point but it makes me laugh. If you're buggy-eyed you're automatically a coke head?

    Are the nonchalant players on heroin? :)

     
  15. corners

    corners Legend

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    Deleted post
     
  16. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    I really doubt it. Djokovic is a wealthy man. If he wanted to use something, he would probably hire professionals to help him do it and make sure his tracks are completely covered. Popping amphetamine pills would be extremely irresponsible and stupid. They conduct drug tests during grand slams and amphetamines show up in your urine for 2-4 days. Djokovic would be risking a lot for a cheap buzz during the match.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  17. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    The realities of sports & life.

    I think it's impossible to stop PEDs from being in sports.

    In many ways it's no different than everyday life. We are all trying to
    get an "edge" on our competition. For some people, that means the ends
    justify the means. Some examples from mild to illegal:

    - using a headhunter to help find a job.
    - leveraging your alumni connections.
    - asking a friend for a referral to a job.
    - asking your friend for a job interview.
    - asking your friend to hire you.
    - lying on your resume to help land a job.
    - stealing credit from a co-worker to get ahead at work.
    - insider trading
    - getting approved for a good loan from a friend in banking.
    - stealing copyrighted material and reselling.
    - copying a successful product and making and selling your version of it.
    - a congressman helping pass or stop a bill or law from passing because a
    lobbyist wants him to -- leading to a big payoff after leaving office by
    the corporation /organization that hired the lobbyist.
    - overthrowing a government because they don't do what you want them
    to do. (e.g. history of Central America & US)
    - starting a war or overthrowing a government to get access to the country's
    natural resources.

    When you start thinking about all this, it doesn't surprise me a pro
    athlete or aspiring pro would take PEDs or a parent would give HGH
    to his kid to make him grow taller because it is an advantage in the sport
    they play. There was a 15 or 16 year old WTA player that got busted for
    Steroids a few years ago. (I can't remember her name) Kids in my
    high school were taking roids and most of them had nowhere near pro
    potential in the sport they played. At a certain point some cross the
    gray line between supplement and PED. Like plastic surgery, once you
    start, it's probably hard to stop...
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  18. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    But he did hire that quack magnetotherapy dude who apparently diagnosed his gluten issue & you saw the results in 2011.

    I'm always wary of tennis pros that travel around with a bunch of dubious fellas.
     
  19. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Actually, that is incorrect. Lance did fail a test, and then they backdated a prescription. It's what Emma O'Reilly said, and Lance sued her. He did say he owed her an apology. He called her one of the ones he couldn't remember suing, but they sued everyone.
     
  20. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    delete.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  21. President

    President Legend

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    Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test :) There are masking agents and gourmet drugs that the testers have never even heard of.

    MLB has a big problem with pitchers on amphetamines.
     
  22. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    This is a beyond absurd commentary. Have you seen what Lance Armstrong looks like, oh wait he has a very slender physique. It's very obvious that there are different cocktails out there. Some athletes get larger and some don't.
     
  23. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    I see your point, but I still don't think its amphetamines for Djokovic. Basically, we are saying that Djokovic is clutch in big moments and that could indicate amphetamine use. However, Djokovic is one of the slowest starters on tour. He lost the first set of every final round grand slam match he played last year. If Djokovic was that desperate for concentration, he would just step out on the court fully loaded on the amphetamines to prevent him from making pathetic starts to big tennis matches.
     
  24. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    no blood tests in the last 6 months?

     
  25. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I read this earlier and it did not surprise me in the slightest. The testing in tennis is a huge joke and anyone can get away with being doped to the gills with no trouble at all. Cvac is also against the biological passport; I wonder why that is?
     
  26. President

    President Legend

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    I don't necessarily think Djokovic is on amphetamines (though I do think he is on PEDs) but was just offering an example as to how drugs can improve mental performance as well as physical.
     
  27. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    I'd like to know what the end game is for the people that believe everyone is cheating? Make it legal? Go back and strip away trophies starting with Korda?

    Dr. Zaius: Don't look for it, Taylor. You may not like what you find.
     
  28. oneness

    oneness Semi-Pro

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  29. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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  30. ctjpm

    ctjpm New User

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    The opposition was somewhat lacking. Similar to Hingis '96/'97.
    Federer, Nadal & Murray won 12 titles between them, Djokovic was accounted for once and that was a retirement.
    Murray lost 3 consecutive matches after AO. Played Djokovic close in Rome and took a set off Rafa at Monte Carlo. Not really a vintage year, highlight was probably barely losing a point during a 6-0 final set Tokyo drubbing.
    Federer lost yet again from mp up in NYC and lost from two sets up at Wimbledon, 1st time in 179(?) matches. Lost to Nadal indoors. Most importantly didn't win a major, 1st time since 2002.
    Nadal having never lost to Djokovic on clay, loses two finals in consecutive weeks. Plays poorly in Monte Carlo, unheard of. Morphs into a different player during IW final - not for the better. Loses to Dodig, very nearly to Verdasco and then to Fish during summer hard court swing. Stellar.
     
  31. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

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    What a load of rubbish. For a start tennis is a much different sport to riding a bike - what I consider just a sit down sport. Tennis takes a great deal of skill and thought. You can have days in tennis whereby nothing works and no drug will alter your performance. Also drugs can only work for so long and then they simply don't. Our top players have been repeating incredible performances for years and what many of them who take time out are simply in need of a break and quite rightly so.
     
  32. fedfan46

    fedfan46 Rookie

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    Yeah ok. You can't argue with me that Fed's play hasn't dropped off substantially since 08. If he was using PED's, that wouldn't be the case.
     
  33. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    i've been looking at the current australian open interviews, seems like the press are asking players about this a lot now.

    it would be good to see interviews wiht the suits that make the decisions, rather than just hte players.
     
  34. canuckfan

    canuckfan Semi-Pro

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    The PED testing standards in tennis are ridiculously inadequate -- they are nothing more than a public relations exercise. The fact remains that the ATP has a vested financial interest in entertaining their viewers with artificially enhanced performances. The testing standards in cycling have been MUCH more demanding than those used in tennis, especially in the past decade as cycling has struggled to rid itself of the rampant doping scandals. And yet, we see that in Armstrong's case, he was able to test clean for many years. When a player is only required to give a blood sample once or twice a year, it is laughable. Urine testing is simply incomplete. Any professional doping system will avoid detection easily.

    EPO, blood doping, HGH and other PED's have been floating around the athletics world for DECADES. The profits from cheating outweigh the profits from testing. The benefits in tennis from increased speed and endurance are enormous -- imagine having extra time to hit the ball on EVERY shot. It increases your options, your consistency, and the ability to hit with power. It also shrinks the court for your opponents and increases the mental pressure on an opponent during a match and during key points.

    Until the sports associations are as serious about testing as they are about profits, doping will continue to be part of the game.
     
  35. marc45

    marc45 Legend

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    murray weighed in today and said it wasn't impossible, as rochus said, to play a tough five-setter at major and then come back with another good performance....said with a day off and good training it is, even if it hurts
     
  36. G A S

    G A S Hall of Fame

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    nadal┬┐ never, quit jesting you...

    so how is the situation in doping? has the grip tightened┬┐
     

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