Critique my serve! (Slo mo Video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Me Against The World, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. Me Against The World

    Me Against The World New User

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    http://youtu.be/V7RKV_xz4uo

    First three are my first serves and last one my second serve.
    I essentially want a first serve with more pace and more flatter where i want my second serve to have more spin.

    let me know if i am doing anything wrong ex. Footwork, swing path, and etc. Thank you!
     
    #1
  2. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    1) Look at the angle of your elbow at impact. Is your arm straight?

    2) Look at the angle between your forearm and racket at impact. Compare to the pro videos below.

    These pro serves will show that the elbow is straight and usually there is more of an angle between the forearm and racket at impact. Look at the pro videos taken from behind and stop on impact. To do stop action on Vimeo click the play-pause button as fast as possible.
    https://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos

    The forearm-racket angle changes very rapidly around impact. What is the frame rate of your camera when recording in frames per second? Is the video processed to playback the video slower.

    I have posted details on these issues many times recently. Search: serve internal shoulder rotation Chas Tennis

    These frames show the arm and forearm-racket angles -
    Safety on the serve-
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
    #2
  3. BIGJ98

    BIGJ98 Rookie

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    I think this serve is decent. But I would extend your arm more at impact and then for a kick serve swing up and out. If you extend your arm straight then your serve will be more American style.:)
     
    #3
  4. Tight Lines

    Tight Lines Semi-Pro

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    What is your grip? It looks like somewhere between conti and eastern. If so, I would move it to true conti.

    Harry
     
    #4
  5. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Hello,

    -I don't like your grip. You should be using a continental grip.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr2f8dmiwpU
    http://cdn.tennis.com/legacy/articlefiles/1337-2006_04_19_grip_guide_2.jpg

    -Your arms aren't in the proper position at trophy pose. Both of them in fact. For your right arm, look at this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGWyLmyWzvc
    Your left arm is horizontal when it should be vertical during your trophy pose. Look at Federer, Roddick, Sampras (nice pic of him), Djokovic.
    http://www.top-tennis-training.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/roger-federer-serve.jpg
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Andy_Roddick_wsh07.jpg
    http://www.top-tennis-training.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/sampras-serve.jpg
    http://tennis.topbuzz.com/tennis-pics/d/881-3/novak+djokovic+serve+toss+and+windup.jpg

    -You're not swinging upwards enough. A serve is similar to an upward pitch. Your contact point is too low, you do not extend into the ball. See those.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlPVdppfYGs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EFWB18kPWY

    -That one is about the format of your video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9zSfinwFA
    It is very tempting to film a serve vertically. But no, we can't see your toss better - it's still fairly off-screen. Yes, the black bands are annoying. And yes, we wanna see the court better.
     
    #5
  6. PoisonSky

    PoisonSky New User

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    I have one thing to say about that serve. Your tossing arm should keep going upwards after it's released the ball, and be pointing up at the sky, and stay there for the trophy pose. Keeping the tossing arm up will also help you to swing up at the ball more as well, and result in a higher contact point.
     
    #6
  7. Me Against The World

    Me Against The World New User

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    Hey thanks for the info! and it's at 60 fps.
     
    #7
  8. Me Against The World

    Me Against The World New User

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    Oh yeah, sorry about the video i didn't realize that it would turn out like that until I saw it on YouTube. My grip is like an mix of eastern and continental and i've tried using a full continental but it doesn't feel right for me, and i'll note the information about the trophy pose, thank you
     
    #8
  9. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    #9
  10. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    Toss looks way too low.
     
    #10
  11. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Many things don't feel right the first time. But with practice it starts to feel more and more right. I couldn't use a SW FH grip. Now I can, ans E grip feels weird. Couldn't use conti for serves. Now I can, and it's much cleaner.
     
    #11
  12. degrease

    degrease Rookie

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    Standing too face on to the net and need to get tossing arm near vertical(my prob also)
     
    #12
  13. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    At 60 fps a frame is captured every

    1/60 = 16.7 milliseconds (thousandths of a second)

    If you look at the Federer service frames in Reply #2, they are high speed video at 240 fps with 4.2 milliseconds from one frame to the next. Your 60 fps camera will capture only one frame like the four shown on the Federer serve. At 60 fps it is not possible to see the most important part of the serve, the rapid acceleration of racket head speed to impact, ISR. You can still get a lot of useful information on the slower parts of the serve.

    What does Slopro do? Does it slow down the original 60 fps video file for playback? I see Slopro advertised to do 1,000 fps with an iPhone. ? That sounds like slowed playback and not high speed video. If so, it might be very misleading on anything as fast as the service motion. The camera has to record at high frame rates.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
    #13
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    As said, too open a stance, to forehand a grip, you never threw as a kid, so you're really clumsy and disjointed in your swing.
    Weak slow swing, out of synch.
     
    #14
  15. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    If you are really using a semi-continental grip for your serve, I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point. Both Boris Becker and Serena Williams used this grip for their first serves. However, both of them switch to a more conventional (continental) grip for their 2nd serves. You appear to be getting a decent pronation (and external shoulder rotation) with your current grip. After you fix some of your other service problems, then consider a grip closer to a true continental (esp for spin serves). Moving from a semi-conti to a full conti should not be too difficult with a bit of practice.

    As mentioned previously, your tossing arm does not extend vertically after your toss for your trophy position. Instead, your hand jerks upward a bit to release the ball and then stays at the release height for a bit. This could result in an erratic toss. Thinking about "lifting" the ball into the air rather than throwing (or tossing) it. Let the fingers open up to release the ball and then have the fingers/hand follow the ball upward until the arm is vertical (more or less). The extended arm should get your left shoulder a bit higher which give you a better shoulder tilt for your trophy. The extended hand should also provide you with a better spatial reference for your ball toss. This will help you to locate the ball relative to your body and should also help you to time your racket drop and swing.

    As Hunter mentioned, your right elbow is too low at your trophy position. It should be away from your body and only slight lower than your right shoulder. In fact, it should be pretty much in line with your shoulder tilt (see images below for a proper trophy). You low elbow position could result in reduced power and difficulty in properly timing your swing.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    On your upward swing to contact your should drive your right shoulder upward a bit more for a good shoulder-over-shoulder cartwheel action. Let your whole body extend upward more for your upward swing and contact . You seem to be leaning forward too much at contact. Most elite servers lean about 20-30 degrees at contact. Sharapova leans a bit more than this. You lean looks to be 45 degrees or more at contact.

    http://www.feeltennis.net/generate-power-tennis-serve/
    http://www.tenniscruz.ch/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Federer-service-Contact.jpg
     
    #15

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