Critique My Serve (video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by crystal_clear, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    #1
  2. SuperDuy

    SuperDuy Hall of Fame

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    #2
  3. Eightmarky

    Eightmarky Rookie

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    One suggestion I would make is to explode more into the ball. As you bring your feet together, bend your knees more and explode upwards as you hit the ball.
     
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  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nice smooth motion, good form, you get kudos all around.
    If you want more easy speed, adopt more of an angle between forearm and racket, so the racket does more work, allowing you to keep your swingspeed exactly the same, but the racket comes thru with your wrist as the link (pivot joint). Kinda like cracking a whip.
    Try to allow the racket to come thru ahead of the hand/elbow just after ball strike, by "delaying" the elbow/hand combination, but allowing the pronation to "whip" the racket thru quicker than the elbow/hand.
    Nice vid, we're stoked for you.
     
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  5. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Not bad. You lean into the court, but then its like you pull back when you hit the ball, taking a lot of pace off the serve.

    Put your hip into the court and lean forward more. Tossing the ball a little more in front of you would help as well.
     
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  6. meltphace 6

    meltphace 6 Rookie

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    Looks good, very solid. Good ball toss, I bet it's more consistent than mine.

    After weight transfer it seems as if most of your weight is on the front foot. See what happens if you push off the ground with your back (right) foot a lot more => this could probably aid your trunk/shoulder rotation and result in more racket head speed. So, try this as this is nothing earth shattering that messes up your current motion.

    Again, good serve.
     
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  7. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    good serves, better than mine.
     
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  8. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Like most people have said, the mechanics and fundamentals are there. You just need to bump it up to get some extra MPHs. Toss more into the court, explode upwards more, and crack your arm like a whip (swing faster).

    Most of these things will come naturally with practice. Especially if you practice kicking up the pace a little.
     
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  9. fearlesslefty

    fearlesslefty Banned

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    definitely use more legs to explode into the ball and get more power...STRONG BASE=MORE POWER..(base meaning legs) also a good trick to try is to stick your hip out (in this case your left hip since your right handed) pretend that your body is like a bow and arrow. and as soon as you toss the ball an archer is drawing back the bow string..your body shoudl make the shape of a bow being drawn back..just watch a video of some of the pros and you'll see what i mean..this will give you more power..good luck and happy hitting.
     
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  10. johndagolfer

    johndagolfer Semi-Pro

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    I definitely agree. You have a solid motion. You just need to amp up the intensity. If your current service motion say is a 5 out of 10 in terms of effort you need to up it by at least 50%.

    This is common among a few of the girls I teach. They worry about form so much, that they forget it is still an athletic move.
     
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  11. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Mrs. Crystal,

    Not bad, not bad at all!

    There's things I like and things I don't.

    You have good rhythm and a good beginning of what we call an abbreviated motion.

    However, here's what I would change.

    Because you place the ball hand up the racket, you lead with your elbow.

    View your video and you will see this.

    I would hope you could place both hands together and bring them up at the same time. Do bend the racquet arm at the elbow, but don't lead with it by bringing it back. Doing this puts the elbow behind the body. There's reasons not to do this.

    Bend at the elbow, but just bring that bent arm up.

    The second is a bit more complicated. You must learn to toss the ball to the left of your head.

    This will create issues in other areas that can be dealt with easily later.

    Please try this and Post an after video.

    Upon viewing the after video, I will tell you what you can do next to improve this already nice motion.

    JS #1
     
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  12. FedExpress 333

    FedExpress 333 Professional

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    Nice serve! Smooth form, consitent toss, and overall nice motion. To reiterate wat others have said, you should try exploding with your leg more, esecially your right. Also, putting the ball toss more in front of you will help get some more MPHs on your serve, and will make you explode forward more.The bow and arrow bend at the hip does get you more power. It involves your core muscles into the shot, and helps with power. So, try Bending your legs and exloding with them, esp. the right, more, tossing the ball frward out in front of you more, usiong your legs and the "bow" stretch of the hips to explode forwards into the ball. Just pretend you are going after it! Good Luck!
     
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  13. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    You could use more foot push with more knee bend during the trophy pose, but otherwise it looks great!

    You also seem somewhat "afraid" to hit the ball, I don't know quite how to say it, but it seems that way.
     
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  14. F-T-S

    F-T-S Rookie

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    Right before contact I sense some excess arm movement taking away from the pace, but good fundamentals.
     
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  15. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Thanks everyone for your input.

    I need to toss ball more in front -- very true. When I bend knees, low right elbow and stick hip out (my racket is more behind me than before), I feel the distance increases between the back scratch and the contact. I tend to toss close to me in order to have the same timing. As the result, I don't step into the court much after serve.
    Question: shall I toss higher or just try to swing faster when I toss more out in front?

    Leg push -- I have to admit I simply bring my right foot close to my left foot and I don't push right leg at all. I feel I might need to change to the platform stance to have an easier leg push. The platform stance has weight equally on too feet and it is good for knees as it doesn't overload on one knee.
    Question: how to practice leg push with platform stance? Any video you could recommend?
     
    #15
  16. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Not yet. I was on a vacation place.
     
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  17. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Nice description of a "whip" racket motion except I don't understand "an angle between forearm and racket, ".
     
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  18. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    That’s an interesting comment. Someone said I am lack of hatred when hitting serves. :)
     
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  19. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    May I know the reasons please(in bold)?
     
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  20. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    arche3 - your theory is true.
     
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  21. Eightmarky

    Eightmarky Rookie

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  22. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    Related to tossing more in front, you would get more power with better shoulder rotation. Currently, you toss the ball with your shoulders in line with the left net post (with the toss being in front of your chest) and finish with your shoulders in line with the right net post, so you are getting, maybe, a quarter (90 degree) shoulder rotation.

    If you start in the similar position and toss in front of your left shoulder, you will finish with your right shoulder pointed at the left net post, with a 180 degree shoulder rotation.
     
    #22
  23. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Looks better than most women's serves at my club.

    I see a little bit of a hitch right before the swing up to contact like someone else noticed. Nothing necessary wrong with that but if you want a smoother motion that could be something you could work out. Small issue.

    One bigger issue is that on your takeback, it seems that you pull the racket head back instead of letting it drop naturally with the help of gravity. You want a relaxed arm/hand, so by phyiscally bring the head back, you're wasting a little energy on your part and not using the potential/kinetic energy from gravity. You start off good with the rackethead/ball about chest level and start the takeback but then you seem to pull your elbow behind you like someone mentioned. See the video posted by Eight and focus on Fed's hitting elbow in relation to his shoulder line.

    It's your option if you want to physically pull the racket head up, but you want to take your racket head back as far as possible because this will provide a relaxed transition to your trophy position so you can whip the forearm/hand.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
    #23
  24. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    No you may not!

    The reasons are long and complicated.

    Do as I request and you will soon see quick improvement, my guess, in less than one hour. Then, your interest in "why" will go away. I cannot help you if you have little confidence in what I ask.

    You have other issues that should be immediately changed, but they are a bit more complicated. I will explain them though, when the time comes. You must make these small changes first.

    You have nothing to loose and plenty to gain!

    I will say this, continue along the lines of which your going and your serve will not improve greatly. You may also be in line for an injury. Especially if you start serving harder.

    I see no advice, from others, that is of any immediate benefit. In fact, some advise is incredibly incorrect.

    Watch how my advice will be attacked.

    One change at a time, starting with the easiest first.

    Now don't think, just go do it!

    JS #1
     
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  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    CC, currently, your racket aligns with your forearm, so pronation does nothing to add rackethead speed. If you hold the racket like a hammer, so the racket extends out from your forearm at say....30 degrees, then your twisting forearm during pronation ADDS rackethead speed to you swing.
    Like a baseball pitch, or a QB long throw, there is a twisting pronation of the forearm at the followtru, to add spin or pace. In tennis, every good server holds the racket at a slight angle during the ball strike, NOT aligned with the forearm.
    I know there is TONS of advice for hitting harder, but this one thing is something almost every sub 4.0 player lacks, and it's the easiest to adopt.
    At least you don't hold waaay down on the racket.
     
    #25
  26. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Per the sample photos:

    1 2 3 4 5
    6 7 8 9 10

    [​IMG]

    My suggestion relates to photo 3 and LeeD relates to photo 7.
     
    #26
  27. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Gentlemen,

    With all due respect.

    Your advice is correct and obvious.

    However, there are more important issues that have to be corrected before service pronation is introduced.

    In the service motion much "happens" before ball contact.

    You must correct issues as they take place.

    You wouldn't want to bring on an injury because of premature advice. Would you?

    "One item at a time."

    JS #1
     
    #27
  28. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    ^Good point. But I think we as individuals just point out little things we see ourselves at the moment. We are not USTPR certified.

    I would advise her to get a reputable pro/coach that can help her in person and to prevent her from getting hurt.

    With that said, I think she should focus on a smoother takeback. Work on the feeling of a nice relaxed and continous motion. Look at the video posted of Federer's serve and trace an imaginary line at the rackethead. You will notice that the motion is continuous and doesn't jerk around in different directions. This action will give you easier power and save your shoulder/joints in the future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
    #28
  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    While I agree it should be one step at a time, I'm not sure about the toss left of her head. Possibly, she WANTS to stay behind the service line after serving! Lots of WTA pros don't move forwards whatsoever during the serve motion, so a toss atop her head is not the worst thing imaginable. It's bad for ME, but maybe OK for CC.
    The other thing, the hand needing to be close together, I'm not so sure either. I start with ball hand at throat of the racket, but both hands work in unison, dropping and rising at the same time. Could it be personal preference?
    We're giving CC tons of ammunition, but she needs to choose for herself, which ones to adopt and in what order. I think she needs to UNDERSTAND the tips before adopting the idea, so we should explain it also.
    Nobody accepts suggestions without some questions, so it's natural for her to ask WHY.
     
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  30. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Coach!
     
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  31. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Go ahead, jump all over Crystal's Post and destroy her opportunities.

    All of you seem to think just giving "any" advice will be fine.

    THAT your good at! Giving any advice.

    Improvement and training doesn't work the way you think it does. It never has and never will. Even those photos, well taken, but are premature and useless.

    Believe it or not, it takes years of giving instruction to be able to give good instruction. Teachers, sometimes they don't make the grade and you guys are so far from being a teacher.

    You're going to carry this to a point where no one can help this girl, not even me.

    Keep it up.

    I've looked over, God knows how many, suggestions given by others "ALL OVER THIS FORUM."

    Weak, is the most polite word I can use to describe it.

    JS #1
     
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  32. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Wait, this isn't the USPTA forums. This is the Tennis Talk forums. If nobody provided any advice unless they were coaches/pros I don't think this forum would exist and be as popular as it is.

    What I've said before about these "free" forums is that there are many opinions on how to do things that may or may not be right but it doesn't mean people can't post. The information is free. You have to use some judgment when taking advice on the internet. Are there disagreements in what is right/wrong, yes. Just explain your reasoning and back up your recommendations and you will be taken seriously.

    Do your due diligence before utilizing any tips on these forums, i.e. club pros/coaches and other specific internet coaching sites. Just because we tell you to jump off a bridge doesn't mean to do it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
    #32
  33. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps you could enlighten the forum then by providing your teaching credentials? You certainly talk a good game but then so do Coaching_Mastery, John Yandell, TCF, 5263, (at the risk of sounding like you) myself along with many others! However, all the above have proven their Teaching backgrounds.

    Perhaps if you want Crystal and other posters to blindly follow your advice you should furnish them with a reason to do so, other wise your instruction will just be classed along with all the other "weak" suggestions around here!

    Cheers

    Ash
     
    #33
  34. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    you are from the angry arrogant school of coaching... :)

    A3#1
     
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  35. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Well, there you go,

    All of you managed to destroy another person's opportunity.

    Congratulations.

    Hey! Click on Jake Speed, read my Posts. I have nothing to hide.

    While your at it, read the comments, about my Posts, and witness for yourself, the kind of tyrants that are on this Forum.
    It'll define more clearly what I'm talking about.

    Just like the nonsense replies to this Post.

    Be nice if Crystal told, all you wannabe teaching pros, to "Go take a hike."

    JS #1
     
    #35
  36. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    Toss more into the court. That will force your body to launch more upwards and into the ball -- if you want to make clean contact.
     
    #36
  37. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Nick?

    A3#1
     
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  38. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Well, I dug out my old USPTA stuff.

    I have absolutely no idea why I'm Posting this? It will not be read and no one cares.

    We professionals, do have a Code of Ethics set forth by the USPTA. Here it is, you can find it on page 14 in the "older" USPTA material.

    #4 is interesting, in that it referrs to "members," which are us professionals.
    You individuals, who say they are Pros, should read up on this.

    JS #1


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    USPTA Code Of Ethics

    The name "Tennis Professional" must remain synonymous with honor, service and fair dealing. The
    professional's integrity, fidelity to the game of tennis and great sense of responsibility to employer and
    employees, manufacturers and clients, as well as to other professionals, must be of the highest, In accordance
    with it's ideals and purposes, USPTA enjoins upon it's membership rigid observance of the following
    code of ethics.

    1. A member shall not play, solicit or give the appearance of soliciting lessons without informing the resident professional at the tennis club/facility, and shall in no way cause embarrassment to any resident professional.

    2. A member shall not accept a position or appointment at a tennis facility in any but an honorable and ethical manner.

    3. A member shall meet his/her financial obligations promptly.

    4. A member shall not be guilty of conduct likely to injure the reputation and standing of the Association or any of it's members.

    5. A member shall not engage in any conduct which is contrary to, or inconsistent with, the policies adopted by the USPTA.

    The Code of Ethics has been in effect for more than 50 years. It is intended to be a guideline of behavior and not a rigid form of conduct. It cannot be enforced if the act in question is, in the sole judgment of the
    Association, the exercise of a legal right of a member. Nor will the Association necessarily attempt to decide disputed issues of fact. Rather it may await the determination of a civil or criminal court.
     
    #38
  39. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    It would be great if one coach (we know who they are by now) could "own" the responsibilty of guiding a student or questioner to a solution. I doubt though that there will ever be that much discipline on this board. :(
     
    #39
  40. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    I tried that!

    So, who pays the price?

    JS #1
     
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  41. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Yes, let's vote on one master coach that will answer all of the questions from the Tips/Instructions section.

    I vote for Jake Speed. :)
     
    #41
  42. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    I don't see any at all!

    JS #1
     
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  43. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    We all know who will... the inexperienced player looking for good advice, of course! The more cunning among us will know how to pick and choose... :)
     
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  44. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Yes, you are right!

    However, follow ups must be made with correct practice assignments/lessons; in good order for faster/quicker and more positive results.

    There's too much interference to allow this. The only real chance the student has is a one on one.

    AND with someone who knows what they are doing, i.e. direction.

    The advice, from all directions, amounts to nothing, there's no game plan.

    I feel like I'm in another bad movie!

    JS #1
     
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  45. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    doesnt have to be so complicated... post some visible credentials, and let people choose.
     
    #45
  46. junbumkim

    junbumkim Professional

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    Very good motion.

    One suggestion I have is just to slow down that tossing arm a little bit. So, try to make it a little slower and smooth when you transfer the weight forward..

    In other words, try to slow down when you lift your front toes up and step down. Right now you lift it up, and quickly step it down and it looks like you are rushing to get into the motion..
     
    #46
  47. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    What theory?
     
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  48. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Great tips~
    toss in front of my left shoulder...
    Thanks Nellie.
     
    #48
  49. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i m in toronto, lets hit sometime.
     
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  50. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Yes, I didn't drop racket much. You mentioned a good point here by relaxing arm to let gravity help drop racket head naturally. Thanks.
     
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