Critique My Serve (video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by crystal_clear, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    ha, I am so scary. :)
    Thank you JS for taking time to give me the advice. I feel more motivated to make changes if I understand the mechnism behind it. I might not fully understand "Do bend the racquet arm at the elbow, but don't lead with it by bringing it back. Doing this puts the elbow behind the body." I thought low elbow and behind the body is the right way to increase swing path before contact. I am confused.:confused:
     
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  2. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Thank you Ajtat, I love those pictures. Now I could understand what LeeD meant. Good observation LeeD. I am wrong that I thought I need to straight up arm with racket to reach the highest contact point. Thanks LeeD.
     
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  3. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Thanks. Perhaps I should toss higher to have more time not to rush?
     
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  4. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Your not reading my words correctly and your taking bad advice and using it. You've been using bad advice too long. CHANGE!

    Just use your eyes, you HAVE to use your eyes to see the mistakes you are making. Look at your video, s l o w it d o w n, you can clearly see you lead with your elbow.

    I cannot help you if you fight me and continue to believe information that's incorrect.

    OH! And you should NOT let "gravity" do anything!!

    There's a level of maturity that has to exist before instruction can be appreciated and used. Happens even with young children.

    I'm not sure you have that?

    You also shouldn't be responding to every reply. You should be ignoring these replies; "weak" advice will only confuse you and you will accomplishing nothing. There will be no progress just your repeated mistakes.

    Look at the results three years of repeated efforts have gotten others on this Forum. Almost 300 tips! Guy's killing himself trying to get a better serve and he can't. Something ain't right? I can fix it in a week, but the guy won't listen. I'm his "idiot." Nice of him to say this to someone who offered help.

    Their more concerned with my "credentials," and not knowing who I am is killing them. All they can do is respond with adversity. LOL, LOL, MY WORDS ARE MY CREDENTIALS, and there not like anyone else's, even your so called Pros!

    Sure, I know it, I don't belong here. But just maybe, maybe I can help one person?

    You got three years to waste?

    Unfortunately, and believe me, the Forum is doing you more harm than good, and guess what, these guys know it.

    Maybe your parents can help you figure this out?

    JS #1
     
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  5. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    So what is wrong with having help from gravity during the racket drop/takeback? It seems to get my arm looser at takeback.

    It's pretty tough to have just someone ignore everyone that is trying to help and believe you after your 100 or so posts.

    In many of my post I indicate that people should have a pro/coach that can lead them in the right direction.

    It sounds like you're the one replying with adversity and being rude. I think your condesending attitude is the reason why you're getting so much flak from everyone. You may be a big shot coach/pro but it doesn't mean you can be a snot about it.

    We're not telling her to do anything, we're just providing critique she has asked for.

    I think that there are just numerous things that she can work on so there is a lot of advice that has been given.

    Like I said early, Crystal should have a coach that can guide her through the improvement process but she will have to be willing to pay for that help.

    On this free forum, you have to try different things that you believe are relative. That is the downfall of free information. There are a few pro coaches on these forums but I doubt that they have enough time/energy to go through the whole process with one person for FREE.

    Occasionally, you'll get detailed information from a reputable coach/pro on certain topics, but not on every single thread about "Critque my Serve", "Fix my forehand" or "Fix my backhand".

    Jake, maybe you can prepare a master thread on the process of improving one's serve, forehand, backhand, overhead, vollies, half-vollies, etc so people can go through the process correctly by a certified pro/coach that you are.

    This way we won't have to answer the same hundreds of threads about the same topic and potentially lead people astray.

    We know what we know and don't know what we don't. We are trying to help each other improve. Some of us are cheap and don't have personal coaches and some do. Without a paid personal coach, the TT forums are the best source of free information we have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
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  6. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Hah!
    So true isn't it?
    *Arche3 theory of tt video posts:
    For every video posted on tt without even looking at the video I can assume with a 75% chance of certainty the poster of said video is of Asian decent.
     
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  7. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    I think this goes hand in hand with the habit of library study.... Asians do tend to be very technical, that's why we are so good at diving, gymnastics, table tennis, badminton, all the stuff that relies more on techniques than on brutal force... some of my non-Asian golf buddies have made comments to me along the lines of 'you Asians are so precise'.

    Typically Asians are indeed smaller and slower, so will need to rely on better techniques to compete.

    Just my theory on your theory.

    and Lee would be your quintessential example right here - here he is, with a small (an understatement) frame, but his mind is overflown with technicals, so much so that he had to let some of that stuff out on this forum or his brain will explode and ruin all that graceful Fabio hair.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
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  8. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I don't care much if you have "credentials" as long as you could give me the advice with explanation. I agree that not all advice is "strong" and how I distinguish "strong" and "weak" advice is based on the explanation: the more detailed the better. I reply to everyone's response because I respect their time and effort trying to help me improve. I feel respected if you could answer my question. It is hard to do changes if I don't understand your point.
    That's different between kids and adult students. BTW, I am an adult.

    I understand you might feel I don't trust you if I ask you questions. I ask my own coach questions too when I take lessons in summer time which is in a couple of weeks hopefully. Now go back to my question for the third and the last time.

    "You lead with your elbow.” -- Are you referring to picture 3 by Ajtat? I should lead with racket?

     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
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  9. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Just look at your video. Clearly you can "see" you lead with your elbow.

    Just stop doing it.

    You're already doing what we call, an "abbreviated" motion. Which is what I like and teach. (At least in the beginning.) I do allow students to "drift" onto their "own style." In fact, I encourage this.

    Put both hands together, stand or be sideways to the net, then raise the toss hand and raise the racquet hand pointing the racquet skyward.

    Keep in mind, I'm not with you to see your practice, i.e. "real time."

    So you must Post another video.

    JS #1
     
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  10. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Jake, you posted advice that is probably good. But Crystal is an adult (you are familiar with these people, right?) She wants to know why before she accepts the advice of some random guy who is throwing out dogmatic assertions left and right. And if you don't/can't explain why, she's going to assume that you're full of it.

    If you were teaching a child, it'd be different. They'd want to play well as soon as possible within the fundementals and you'd teach them that way. Surely a coach capable of "doing magic" with instruction knows that the method differs slightly for different people?
     
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  11. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Gee, Why don't you let Ms. Crystal decide for herself. A big girl.

    Hey! You demand credentials from me, but what abut the other 500 individuals spitting out advice?

    Look, I don't have the time to explain "everything," and, believe it or not, there's good reason for it. Wait and see.

    In the meantime you shouldn't be so judgmental.

    It creates bad spirit!

    JS #1
     
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  12. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    we only care about the credentials of #1

    who cares about #2 - #500
     
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  13. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    I'm not being a damn thing and you know it. Crystal DID decide for herself when she asked you to explain it. She's not new to this, you know. Put your big boy pants on and treat her and others with respect. You only get a "new guy" pass for so long before we give you a dose of reality.
     
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  14. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    JakeSpeed literally has active arguments on every thread he's replied in.

    Dude, you need to give it a rest.
     
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  15. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    This reminds me of a saying:

    "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones"
     
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  16. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Interesting. Vindictiveness?

    I'm learning, quit quickly, how these Forums work. 95% of the members ruin it for the other 5%.

    Take a good look at your statement and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

    Sure, it's obvious there's a "new kid on the block," but in no way can you show me one comment I made, that would or should bring on a reaction like what members are displaying.

    And yes, I sound different, talk different and instruct/reply differently.

    Gee, probably because I "really" instruct for a living.

    Should be glad I stopped in for a visit?

    Never too late to be kind or to show kindness.

    It would be welcomed and would look much better to other viewers.

    JS #1
     
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  17. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    I already hit with someone who instructs for a living, just did, actually. Did I mention that he treats me with respect and always explains why he wants me to change before we change my strokes?

    Anyway, I understand that you speak directly and are confident in your advice. I'm the same way. It wasn't too much to ask to tell Crystal why you want her to stop leading with the elbow. People say crazy stuff on here all the time (like you can't hit topspin with an eastern grip, remember that?), so how do you expect your advice to stand out without explanation? She's just going to bow before your advice?

    Just saying that you instruct for a living isn't enough to convince a smart person like her to prioritize your advice over the rest.
     
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  18. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    ^^^ yeah, that eastern can't hit topspin thing was the one that made me question Jake's credentials.
     
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  19. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    ^^^^^^ Hell, it's even possible with the eastern forehand grip from a physics standpoint, just not advisable.
     
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  20. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    We're all strangers here so the simple fact is that if we treat each other with respect, we will get it back in return. 99% of the time.

    If you are arrogant and condesending to others, you will look like a jerk even if you're Paul Annacone. Nobody likes a jerk, plain and simple.
     
    #70
  21. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    So easy to take words out of context or "leave one or two out."

    What I said was, and I stand by it...

    Gee, do I see the word "repeated" stuck in there? Anyone else see it? Wow!

    Now why would I word my reply this way, with the word, "repeated?"

    Da, I didn't think so.

    JS #1
     
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  22. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    God that's funny.

    OK, OK, let me get this, "I'm" being the jerk?

    Right, got it!

    JS #1
     
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  23. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    As long as we're going the condescending route: Do you see Federer's backhand? Does it have enough repeatable topspin for you? Or did you forget to distinguish between forehand and backhand eastern grips? No, that'd be crazy.
     
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  24. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    you know what, I am now convinced that you are just a family cat who can type on the computer keyboard.

    guilty until proven innocent (with a video, or a live hit report from a fellow TWer).
     
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  25. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    I didn't call you a jerk. I just said that if someone comes off as arrogant and condesending then you will be percieved a jerk. This is a universal truth for all poster on TT.
     
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  26. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Why am I wasting my time with this? We are on such different levels.

    "Extreme Eastern." Commonly used and preferred.

    Also, don't think for one "New York minute, that any given grip is a constant.

    Grip "changes" can be on going throughout match play.

    Well, maybe not at your level.

    JS #1
     
    #76
  27. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    I believe you are referring to, exactly what I'm receiving. I couldn't have worded it better.

    Thanks for that!

    JS #1
     
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  28. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    The grip variation is the first thing my coach taught me. Nice try at dissing my level, not gonna work though, I'm already aware of my suckage.



    Again, we're not that different. I am told that I sound condescending many times. And yes, that's what was implied above even if they won't say it.
     
    #78
  29. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    You think I'm disliked now? I can't imagine what it would be like if "they" actually saw me hitting.

    JS #1
     
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  30. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Ever hear of Daniel Koellerer? He's a great tennis player that a lot of people don't like.
     
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  31. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    best case scenario - you hit like TonLars or tennis_balla, we treat you like god, and you can keep dishing out advices.

    worst case scenario - you hit like [fill in the blank], people goes 'ah, not too bad, but not impressive either', and you can keep dishing out advices, some will take, some will ignore.

    I don't see a disaster scenario here.... no?
     
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  32. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    You forgot the ultimate scenario: he hits like Dozu and swings the human racquet.
     
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  33. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    and even that, I am still being treated well here.

    so JS, lemme tell ya, the water is fine.
     
    #83
  34. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    cool, me too! Actually so do Balla, JY, Coaching_Mastery, Papa, 5263, TCF and countless others.

    Perhaps you could try a little humility in your posts? That could help with the issues you seem to have with rubbing people up the wrong way> Your advice is generally good, but not necessarily better than anyone elses, just a different approach. There is no "one way" - a good coach should know that!

    Cheers

    Ash
     
    #84
  35. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    JS not necessary jake speed

    initial he signed JS without "#1"
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
    #85
  36. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    True and Kudos!

    Why is everyone making such a big deal over Jake Speed?

    Possibly, the less you say the better.

    JS #1
     
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  37. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    so what is it?

    JS Performance Tennis?
     
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  38. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Do you play doubles, singles or practice rally?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
    #88
  39. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    everything except really bad doubles

    what do you prefer?

    i played a few players from here. they were very competitive. they wanted to start a set right away.
     
    #89
  40. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I play doubles and I like to practice, serve, volley, return of serve etc.

    Where do you play? I play at Lam.
     
    #90
  41. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Could be JS Tennis Management Group in Sarasota-Bradenton, FL. $40/hr pretty good price.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
    #91
  42. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    Hi Jake Speed, I am trying to understand what crystal_clear is doing incorrectly, and it's still eluding me after all these pages of discussion. Is it that her elbow is too close to the body as a result of "leading" with the elbow? Should she have greater separation between her arm and body?

    Here's a video of Andy Roddick: is he not leading with the elbow also while getting into the trophy position? If not, could you explain why not?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9iN1qPaKtw

    Thanks in advance.
     
    #92
  43. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Sigh, I am going to play tonight and not sure how not to "lead with elbow". I google and find this:
    Lead with Elbow video
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7hx0j_lead-with-the-elbow_sport

    I also find videos which support LeeD's point.
    Angle of Racket at Contact:
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6eix2_angle-of-racquet-on-serve_sport

    There is the reason:
    Serving Leverage:
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6fq3n_serving-leverage_sport

    I like what Jim said at the end of the video, "You could experiment both and see which one you like."
     
    #93
  44. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i m guessing no

    JS tennis management is reputable and established.
     
    #94
  45. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i play at lam, nyta and tam
     
    #95
  46. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Thank you. I thought I am the only one don't understand JS's point.
     
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  47. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    You're welcome. I'm hoping to follow your progress so I can also get something out of it to help my serve!
     
    #97
  48. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    seriously, stop with the sermons, and clarify what your tip is.
     
    #98
  49. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    #99
  50. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    I am willing to bet $5, on that if we ever get to see Jake Speed hitting balls, it will be a big disappointment.
     

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