Critique My Serve (video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by crystal_clear, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    How would it be possible? The camera wouldn't be able to stand the aura of his greatness. One extreme eastern backhand with repeatable topspin and it'd be lights out.
     
  2. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I experiment with the serving leverage Jim is talking in the video before match and it is very true that I hit harder with some angle of racket at contact. I tried to implement the new finding in the match tonight. I also tossed higher and more in front, not too much to the left yet. I also tried the platform stance, not too difficult changing this but not much leg push yet. I feel my serve motion smoother and I did serve harder and even got two aces and won all three sets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  3. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Cool, Maybe we can arrange some doubles play.
     
  4. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Then post your video and I can try to help your serve. :D
     
  5. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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  6. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    I look forward to posting my video and having it blasted to bits, of course! As soon as I can get a video camera organized and someone to operate it...
     
  7. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Just asking Crystal, but how do you know that you changed the racquet angle relative to your hitting arm? It's a pretty subtle adjustment that I would never be sure of unless I saw my serve in slow motion. It seems strange that you could just tack this onto your serve and start acing people left and right, no offense. :)
     
  8. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Crystal: You serve like a girl. I thought your 1st link WAS the slow mo. :-D Seriously speaking, to get to the next level you need more oomph on your serve thru pronation, wrist snap, core rotation, legs and accelerating thru the rackethead thru impact.
     
  9. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    Technically you seem to have a lot of good things going for you. I'd say the area that could use the biggest improvement is achieving more explosiveness.

    Try standing still and jumping as high as you can. Are you getting that explosive feel during your serve?

    As for the angle of your racquet and how it affects leverage, see my post here:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5023138&postcount=7

    and my thread here, for a more detailed explanation:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=370826
     
  10. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    sure.

    what level are u, btw?

    intercounty teams are always short good female players. are u looking for a team?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  11. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    CrystalClear,

    I cannot comment on your serve because I don't know what I'm talking about.

    I can, however, remark on your fashion choices. I think the pink and white ensemble is quite striking and flattering. I must confess to a bit of disappointment that you chose not to wear a dress.

    Seriously, keep it up. One question I have about the serves in the video. What kind of serves were you hitting? I was surprised to hear the advice to toss more to your left unless you're trying to hit a twist serve or something. When my toss drifts to my left, that is nothing but trouble.
     
  12. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    If she's going to stay with predominantly a slicish serve with a little topspin, no, I wouldn't advise tossing more to the left. Just unnecessary strain on her shoulder.
     
  13. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Crystal,

    Take a good look at that has happened to your Thread.

    Now, do you see why I can't help you?

    JS #1
     
  14. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    An iPhone can do the job if you are serious looking forward to posting your video.
     
  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    IPhone?
    If they had that, they'd be posting vids all day!
    Do you seriously think lots of posters here on TT have Iphones and Pads?
     
  16. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    You are right it is too quick to be true. I am not 100% sure if I had the racket angle unless I video tape my serve. I did experiment on the curtain before matches to get the angle racket feeling and no angle racket feeling. I feel it is much easier to pronate and hit harder with an angle racket. Besides, I had only 2 aces during the whole two hours matches and I often have 1 ace. On average, I made only one ace per hour though I doubled my aces.

    I feel more pronation with the angle racket at contact.
     
  17. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I hear you. Thank you for motivating me to improve my serve so I could in the near future ace you in the match. (Hopefully you are 3.0. :D)
     
  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "Crystal, you look like a girl...."
     
  19. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Too bad I missed you post completely. Actually I saw Pat's video before but I couldn't relate it to my serve or I didn't understand what he talked about then. Nobody including my coach pointed out I didn't have angle racket at contact until LeeD pointed it out. Maybe my coach think I need to work on other problems first. A serious question: how to practice to get more explosiveness?
     
  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Just hit as hard as you can for a few serves and don't worry about getting it in. After 5, start to try to get them in.
    You need to see how hard you can actually serve before attempting to place them IN the court. That is true for everyone.
     
  21. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I was rated 4.0 two years ago. What about you? I feel it is more fun to play with similar level players. Last week, I played a mixed including a 5.0. Three 4.0 of us played serious tennis and the 5.0 effortless put away every ball he touched. Besides, I don't like being bageled by you.

    I played B last year and my team won the division. We are in A this year though I am scared to get killed. I need to improve my serve and volley in order to survive in A.
     
  22. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    iPhone is just a cell phone and it is cheap compared to other cell phones in terms of value.
     
  23. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    do you mean intercounty or STF?
     
  24. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Thanks Cindy, the tennis fashion counselor@TW.

    I have a matching pink skirt and I forgot to bring it with. They look like a pink dress when I wear them together. I can only wear dress in a social play as I have difficulty to jam the ball into the short. I don't want to struggle to put balls into short at a crucial point in a league play. Did you see the new skirt at TW has a left side pocket? I hope they can do something for dresses to hold balls.

    The video shows my first serve. I have a "natural" spin serve and I try to flat out more. I agree that tossing to my left is not easy for timing. I can only toss more out in front for now and it gets good result already. Tossing right, front, and left is a progression in terms of difficulty level I guess.
     
  25. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I want to flat out more for the first serve.
     
  26. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I know.

    You can't help me because I don't understand your advice "You leading with eblow" so I can't change to "not to lead with elbow". :(

    You are a good coach and I am a not bad student but the communication is broken.
     
  27. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Intercounty A and STF A1. I might get killed twice. Poor me. :(
     
  28. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    Jake Speed's behavior here is completely opposite to what a good coach would do.

    'good' in tennis teaching and/ or business sense.

    just look at the way other legit coaches give advice... it's quite obvious that he is not a coach.
     
  29. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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  30. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    From what I understand, explosiveness, especially in a motion like the serve, comes from both explosive muscle action, and in timing the kinetic links together properly so that the power is not dissipated before reaching the racquet.

    I can't actually tell where you're losing power in your serve, because I'm not experienced enough. On the one hand, you have a great kickback with your right leg, indicating that you are generating enough forward angular momentum with your body to require a counterbalancing kickback. On the other hand, you don't seem to be getting much height off the ground...

    Did you try my suggestion and just jump as high as you can (no need to hold a racquet, just do a standing vertical). Do you feel that you are getting a good explosive launch off the ground?

    If so, then ask yourself whether you're generating this same explosiveness when launching into the serve. You look plenty athletic, so that should help.
     
  31. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    wow. u must be a pretty good player.
     
  32. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Height off the ground has little to do with a fast serve.
    It gives angle, allows more fast serves to go IN, but doesn't make the serve fast.
    Fast is forward momentum of the upper body, and that can be either moving forwards with the whole body, or as Roddick demonstrates, just with the upper body.
    If a server lands 20" inside the court, then needs another 3' forwards to recover, THEN he's using forward momentum to maximise his service speed.
    Live arm, fast swing, good mechanics.
    I have no leg spring, from not being able to jog or run in 3 years. I can still serve in the lowest 100's.
     
  33. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    yea, this makes sense to me. That's why I'm a bit confused - she's got great kickback, but something seems lacking in her overall explosiveness.
     
  34. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Sorry. I tried to stay at 4.5 but they kicked me up to 5.0.
     
  35. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Crystal, don't listen to anything Jake Speed says. If he can't explain what he means and won't give you reasons for what he is saying he has no clue how to teach people.
    The set of pictures with Aijtat's advice at #3 (which was what I was going to mention) and LeeD's advice at #7 should probably be helpful to you.
    You were bringing your hand up to your ear and kind of pushing the racket. In terms of feel, let everything be longer and more flowing (picture #3). Try lengthening your motion by practice swinging with a rope or cord and seeing if you can get the rope to move continuously - you can't push on a rope.
     
  36. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    I've tried hitting flat serves with Fed, Sampras motion (smooth, fluid); Tsonga, Soderling motion (deep knee bend, but I'm not 6'4" like them); and Roddick motion (turning my torso into a wound up spring per ServeDoc). I get the most explosive power from Roddick motion, best accuracy from Fed motion and sore quads from Tsonga motion.
     
  37. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    Bozo,

    Nice to see you form conclusions based on ignorance.

    Too many hands in the fire. And the influence is a detriment. Especially yours.

    Crystal, I told you how to solve that issue, you're listening to too many others. Which you have the right to do.

    JS #1
     
  38. Eightmarky

    Eightmarky Rookie

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    You're ruining it for me.
     
  39. Jake Speed

    Jake Speed Banned

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    No matter how I respond, there will be "hate mail' coming from all directions.

    I'll say this, I'm not delighted with all of his movements. It works well for him, but his motion is not one I would use as an example to improve someone else's.

    He has an abbreviated serve, Yes, he bends his elbow too soon, he also bends his wrist briefly.

    All these items are generally corrected with student players.

    "A starting point only." A good student will "blossom," and eventually take on what is more comfortable for them.

    This "copying" of everyone else's serve, can sometimes work against the learning process.

    Everyone becomes a teacher, making it difficult, for real instructors, to teach.

    Plus, with all this advice, no one wants to listen.

    JS #1
     
  40. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    ^^ Thanks, JS - I'll buy that. If one were to forget about the elbow altogether, and just open up the chest towards the ball - kinda stretching out the pecs, while at the same time pointing the racquet upwards - would that work for a start? Thanks.
     
  41. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Wow, that's a very technical article about the bent elbow & pronation. It makes sense my serve always have slice component with my straight elbow at contact.

    On post #62 Figure 2.18. Could you explain what grip Taylor Dent uses? I know racket handle bevel 1, 2, 3… not sure about the long axis of the tennis racquet…
     
  42. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I tried the jump... not feeling too much explosiveness but worried jumping might hurt my knees. I saw some short people like me serve hard without jumping using good coiled and un-coiled spring-like motion. I might stick to down to earth approach for now. Someone mentions boxing is good exercise to feel explosiveness though I never do boxing.
     
  43. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Not really. I am lucky to have strong partners who carry me to win matches.
     
  44. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    My dream can never come true then. :(

    So what's the major difference between 4.5 and 5.0?
     
  45. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    4.5 is very solid and can beat most of the guys around the courts. 5.0 can pretty much beat everyone including many of the teaching pros. The biggest benefit is that as 5.0 you never have to worry about losing to a girl (unless you are dumb enough to challenge Serena.)
     
  46. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Crystal, in response to your toss comments: You can "flatten" out the serve just fine with your current toss location. The more "over the head" or to the left the toss goes, the more natural a topspin swing path becomes. However, if you over do it you put extra strain on the shoulder. Your toss slightly to the right makes slice and flatter serves your bread and butter. Also, when you learn to really "swing up" to the ball, all these serves will have a slight topspin component to them. And topspin/kick serves are doable from there.

    Short version: your toss location is fine.

    P.S. You're twisted very slightly towards a forehand grip, not pure continental. You're hitting decent spin right now, just thought that was worth mentioning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2011
  47. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    My understanding of serve mechanics is that the explosive extension of the knees (which is what is involved in jumping vertically) gets channeled into uncoiling the torso in the case of the serve. So you can really explode with your legs, but use all that power to uncoil your body forwards into the court.

    Maybe this exercise can help:

    Stand a few feet away from a wall. Pretend the wall is north. Face North East.

    Now imagine that you want to headbutt the wall (obviously in all these progressions, don't actually headbutt the wall: stand far enough away that this doesn't happen).

    Start off by just rotating your neck towards the wall. Keep legs straight (knees fully extended).

    Now use your torso to coil into the wall. Again keep your legs straight.

    Now bend your knees, and explode with your legs but in such a way that it helps power your torso uncoil into the wall. Your feet shouldn't leave the ground.

    This is what should happen with the serve.

    Note: if you were to keep your neck really loose during the second and third progression, you would be able to feel it "whip" at the end of the motion. I don't advise this here, as you could really damage your neck. But keeping a loose arm allows the arm and racquet to feel like the end of a whip. ( see my recent thread here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=374834 )
     
  48. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    About slice component see please http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=370729&page=11 post # 221.
    Taylor dent uses hammer (fist) continental grip. It means he keeps all his finger knuckles next to the bevel 2 and parallel to the axis of the racquet handle (long axis of the tennis racquet). This ensures that pronation beta angle will be never less than 30 degrees and hence we cannot kill pronation component of the racquet velocity.
    There is also very popular pistol continental grip, see please http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=361610 post #124. This grip can produce more torque, but could kill pronation velocity completely.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  49. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    I see. You beat everyone because you avoid playing better players such as Serena. :D
     
  50. crystal_clear

    crystal_clear Professional

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    Good eye~ I have the habit of migrating grips during racket drop. I need to re-enforce conti grip again.

    My serve went back to my old fashion last night and I landed only one ace. I need more serious practice on serve before I can serve new style with consistency.
     

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