Critique My Video

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by 10sLifer, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    #1
  2. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Ok, props to you for what you are trying to do, firstly.

    I wonder if you are a golfer, at all? (probably quite a good one, actually)

    There are some slightly odd things in your swing that put me in mind of a golf swing. I like your videos, though, even though I think your technique is a bit dated in some ways, especially your grip and tendency to close off a bit. If you look a the sample of Pete you put up you will see he is hitting very much off an open stance rather than getting that front foot over as you do... Also, what is that catching the follow through over your head business? Meh, anyway, you make lovely clean contact with the ball, no question about that.

    I am sure others will speak of this in more detail, though.

    Again, props to you! :)

    (and be prepared for some spectacularly ill informed commentary including being told you shouldn't coach 'cos you are only a 3.5 or some such drivel)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
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  3. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    It wouldn't be TTW without them
     
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  4. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    +1 on the golf swing

    Honestly, I've never seen anything quite like it on a tennis court, although it seems to work pretty well for you.

    The video itself is pretty well done.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
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  5. cellofaan

    cellofaan Semi-Pro

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    it says elastern forehand grip at 0:49 instead of eastern.
     
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  6. Giannis

    Giannis Rookie

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    Typical old style forehand, not bad, but a bit tight and static.
     
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  7. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    yup... this is the oldie goodie style FH... pros today don't hit this way.. without much windshield wiping wrist release, you are leaving a lot of juice on the table, which could have been put on the ball.

    I don't see a problem teaching this style to older rec players though, as most of them prolly watched pros hit this way when they grew up.
     
    #7
  8. goober

    goober Legend

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    yah looks like the kind of instruction they would give on FH about 20 years ago. Nothing wrong with that since a lot of beginning rec players probably would be better off hitting this way than modern methods. That exaggerated follow through over the head - do you actually hit like that in matches?
     
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  9. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    Thanks for your input guys!
     
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  10. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

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    that's a nice classic forehand. solid and dependable with not a lot of moving parts that will break down. i know most people want to hit a modern pro style forehand but there's still a lot to be said about a classic forehand. played a guy who had these old school pro staffs and hit old school forehands hard and flat. they felt like bowling balls on my end.
     
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  11. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Looks like most elderly ladies at the local park. Very stiff and robotic.
     
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  12. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Why were the two professionals included at the end? Their strokes look nothing like the coach. Everything is different from their bouncing footwork, take back timing, the take back, the down position, the follow through, and their open stance.
     
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  13. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    There some aspects that are good (some of prep), and some not so much. The part that shows lifting on the back toe, straight front leg, and upper arm lifted is especially troubling, though something like this used to be taught.

    Here's Janko Tipsarevic hitting forehands. This is a good stroke to emulate (thanks Ash).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13N2TOH7Kwg

    Here's another guy explaining a modern forehand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo

    Also check out fuzzyyellowballs.
     
    #13
  14. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    eastern forehand???? whos teaching you?
     
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  15. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    Federer clone?
     
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  16. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    Nice clean contact.Maybe a little extravagant on the follow through and a little closed on the stance.Good solid stroke for teaching the fundamentals.Good one.
     
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  17. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    There's nothing wrong with an Eastern grip by itself. You can still use a modern, WW swing path with an Eastern grip. It's also the grip that Dave Smith recommends folks start with in Tennis Mastery. It's not a huge change to evolve from a pure Eastern to a more Western grip, though you can stay full Eastern and have a perfectly sound, modern forehand with all of the benefits that entails (a la Federer and Del Potro).
     
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  18. ahuimanu

    ahuimanu Rookie

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    Your fundamentals on the preparation looks good to me...the only aspect of your forehand... I would suggest is staying down on the follow thru (perpendicular with the ground)...you lift up a bit (which is fairly common even at the advanced levels)...so your racquet doesn't get "all" of the ball...when you get it right...you'll "feel" it, see it (ball will fire) and also hear it too... Hope this was of some value :)

    PS: I see other posters talking about the modern "windshield wiper" forehand...saw Vilas on the Tennis Channel talking about following through "under" the left arm...give a try and see how it works...otherwise you have pretty good form to me ;)....here's a guy to watch as time permits...beautiful!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
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  19. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    Wow Really enjoy reading everyones opinions. I feel like when I am not demonstrating FUNdamentals it would probably look better to most of you. Thanks again for the feedback!
     
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  20. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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  21. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    yea but in 2011 i dont think people should be using eastern. thats not what i would teach. and Federer doesnt use a real eastern. his is more like a hybrid. del potro....look what happened to his wrist!
     
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  22. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    Wait a second? Doesn't Janko step forward, lift up on his back toe and lift his upper link on the first two forehands of this vid?
     
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  23. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    No, not in the way you were showing in your video. A modern forehand can be hit with a closed or open stance. Note the last forehand in the video. Stepping into the stroke and/or lifting up on the back foot is not generally a key element to the stroke. His front leg isn't straight.

    His upper arm doesn't lift up in the manner you showed, but rather wraps around his body. Note how his racquet ends up pointing toward the back fence at the end of the follow through, not toward the net as you show. He does keep his elbow high as part of the windshield wiper follow through.

    And speaking of windshield wiper, note how he generates the topspin. This is very different than what you show in your video. Look at the wrist pronation at contact and how the racquet rotates in front of his body in a plane roughly parallel to the net. Some coaches tell you to pretend you're looking at your watch. That motion, the windshield wiper, is the key to how the modern forehand can generate the crazy amounts of topspin, even with an Eastern grip, and still put serious forward velocity on the ball.
     
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  24. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    doesn't tipsy have a lovely FH? I hadn't ever really looked at it before, thanks!
     
    #24
  25. Didnt know you quoted me, thanx! :)
     
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  26. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Actually we start every player off in Eastern, same with Rick Macci and many other top coaches. The battle is that many beginners will switch without realizing it to a full western. So you have to keep switching them back. After they get the stroke down, we move them more towards semi western.

    I have some issues with this coaches techniques, as I reviewed several of his videos. But starting folks out in Eastern for forehands is not one of them.
     
    #26
  27. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Lol, I just liked it, pretty much sums up my whole thought process when I am serving!
     
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  28. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Doesn't it seem like Fed is arming the ball a lot there? I mean actively swinging the arm. I realize it's just slow practice, but shouldn't the arm be always loose?
     
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  29. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    #29
  30. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Is tipsy using an pure open stance on any of those strokes? Seems semi closed and more similar to the OP's stance.
     
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  31. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    it's a rec league women FH. just sayin... Nobody hits like that anymore. (Even 7 year old junior girls don't hit like that anymore)

    If you are teaching that to your serious students and junior boys and girls you are on the wrong path.
     
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  32. Rubens

    Rubens Semi-Pro

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    This is a cleanly hit forehand, with impeccable timing. However, I think the missing key element here is pronation, which would increase the amount of spin, as mentioned earlier.
     
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  33. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    You have a very good forehand. As others have said, it looks more like the Vic Braden tech of the 70s than the modern tech.

    Try a semi-open stance.

    Try relaxing you grip - nice and loose arm, wrist and hand. Wrist is passive - no active movement - during contact including just before and after contact. But, wrist is not locked in modern forehand like Connors and Evertt locked theirs. In reality, there is probably a little wrist movement in modern forehand but better to just relax and think passive wrist.

    Try a few windshield wiper follow-thrus. Lower finish over or near shoulder, racket head tip almost pointing behind you, elbow finishing up and pointing toward opponent. Forearm pronates into WW follow-thru after full extension is reached and racket wraps around.

    The modern rally ball racket head path is not as steep and the racket face is actually a bit closed at contact.

    Go here and watch the modern forehand; not a real steep upward angle and still loads of topspin from these guys.
    http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2011/05/roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part-1.html

    And, here to see the impact of closed racket face; much more top is contact below center with slightly closed racket face.

    http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2011/06/roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part-2.html

    If the rest of your game is on par with your forehand, I think you can easily be competitive at ntrp 4.0 level. I have played 4.0 players that didn't have your technique.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
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  34. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Best post of the thread. I cringed when I saw his video of him teaching an aspiring junior girl. She was about 13 and a solid athlete and he had her getting low in a '3 point stance' then hitting, then following through over the shoulder.

    My 7 year old would smoke her, as would many 7-11 year olds down here. Tennis has evolved and the explosive, open stance, forehands of even very young juniors simply do not look like what he is teaching. Kids today explode into the ball and you do not hamper their natural flexibility and explosiveness.

    There is a reason most forehands look like they do today. The speed and power of the game. Like you said, he is teaching the forehand you see on the robotic players at the local park. Teaching that to a junior is setting them up for failure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
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  35. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    didn't realize op was teaching juniors to hit this way.... then I agree with TCF and arches.... juniors should NOT hit this way... there is no future, it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight against other juniors with the modern strokes.

    still think it's ok to teach older rec player (say the 3.0-3.5 crowd) though.
     
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  36. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    The arm is lose I assure you.Each link of the kinetic chain is stopping propelling the next. Of course still a demonstration, FUNdamental video. For those of you wondering what a fundamental is:

    Fundamental-
    serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying: fundamental principles; the fundamental structure.
     
    #36
  37. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    LOL I assure you I am a little better than a 4.0.
     
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  38. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    Great to see some high speed research on the contact though.
     
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  39. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    nice, informative links...thanks for that!!
     
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  40. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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  41. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    yes, my 11 year old simply hurls the racquet head at the ball off an open stance with huge topsin, looks amazing and would just obliterate the 13 year old in that video...
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
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  42. 10sLifer

    10sLifer New User

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    As much fun as it would be to set that up and see the result I would never intentionally put a child near someone of you mental maturity/state.
     
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  43. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    let's put the 2 kids in a cage and have a fight till only 1 of them walks out!
     
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  44. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Don't take offense, fella. I am also a teaching pro, only I don't coach my own children. As it happens, both my tennis playing children hold national rankings, but I take no credit for that, They do, however, play a modern game, something you apparently don't teach at this stage.

    Read my first post again before you get abusive.
     
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  45. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    I don't see what the OP is doing that isn't a modern FH, other than the follow thru. Is the follow thru all that defines the the modern FH vs. classic?
     
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  46. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    watch his feet...
     
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  47. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    You mean open stance versus semi closed? Federer hits half his FH's with semi closed.
     
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  48. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    There is a bit more to it than that, actually. Look, read the first post I made in this thread, that's my take on it. I don't think the OP is being completely honest with himself as evidenced by the Sampras video in the original video. No way is that similar to the Op's demonstration.

    HE hits the ball great, as I said before, but I fear he is setting up his students for failure at the hands of otherr kids coached in a more contemporary manner.
     
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  49. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    I agree, doesn't look similar to the Sampras one at all. But the main difference I seem to notice is the OP's strokes are just more rigid almost robotic, whereas Sampras is fluid. But other than that the only other differences are the high follow through and perhaps a bit less trunk rotation than than the modern FH. But in slow motion it doesn't look that different to be honest.
     
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  50. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    his stroke path and contact will not be able to hit as much spin and angle as the more modern stroke.
     
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