Cronin:"Inferior players masquerade as doubles specialists"

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Moose Malloy, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Just read this on tennisreporters. I agree:

    "Mac/Bjorkman's two matches showed something else rarely discussed during the doubles controversy: There are a lot of inferior players masquerading as doubles specialists. At 47, Mac could take down both Fisher and Phillips in singles. The tops dubs team aside, many of the guys couldn't make it on the singles tours because of serious technical and mental deficiencies. They are lucky to have jobs and their tennis is not very entertaining."

    http://www.tennisreporters.net/scoop_mcenroe_021706.html

    Ashley Fisher $369,087 in career prize money
    Tripp Phillips $126,032 in career prize money
    Very lucky indeed. Last night was probably the first time more than a handfull of people were ever in the stands for their matches.
     
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  2. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Have the Bryans taken him up on this issue yet? Lawsuit coming, Cronin LOL
     
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  3. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Well he said, "the tops dubs team aside." He's not talking about the Bryans.
    If you saw Fisher/Philipps you'd know what he means. They really aren't very good players(Mac is in much better shape than Fisher even though he's 15 years older) And the tour is full of these guys.
    They get to make a living, even though no one wants to watch them.
     
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  4. Grigollif1

    Grigollif1 Semi-Pro

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    I believe that Fisher, indeed had a very poor match yesterday. I believe is mostly because of nerves and the occasion, these guys are used to playing to semi empty arenas an unknown players. Suddenly you are facing one of the greats in Tennis in a packed House and Televised match.
     
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  5. Nastase

    Nastase Rookie

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    I dont know much about Fisher, but Phillips is an excellent player...and face it Mac and Bjork could beat alot of teams. The dubs specialists are ok with me. Dont agree with the sentiment that they "dont belong out there". Utter crap really. The people who say this are the same ones who think you are a journeyman singles player if youre not in the top 30.
     
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  6. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    I was at the SAP Open last night and I was disappointed with the way Ashley Fisher played. For whatever reason, he didn't step up and his partner, Tripp Phillips, had to carry a big part of the load. Looking at that match, I'd have to agree with Cronin somewhat.

    The following doubles match, however, was much better quality. I expect the winners, Levinsky and Linstedt, to take it to JMac and Bjorkman tonight -- although I think the old fa*ts will prevail in the end... (too much experience)


    HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I have to report that there was this rumor circulating in the crowd last night that JMac's opponents had been paid by the promoter to take a dive... They just weren't very good at making it look like a close match!

    Just kidding!... :D
     
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  7. VictorS.

    VictorS. Professional

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    I have a lot of respect for anyone who plays on the atp circuit. However, it is kind of awkward to see a 47 year old outplaying guys in their mid 20s. Of course, McEnroe is a genius with the tennis racquet and his hands are absolutely legendary. But he's still almost 50 years old! Let's not also forget that Bjorkman was also his partner, and he was easily the best player on the court.
     
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  8. Grigollif1

    Grigollif1 Semi-Pro

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    Spoiller! Spoiller! Don't read this if you Don't want to Know the results of Yesterday's SAP Doubles Match! Spoiller....

    I don't want to Rush into Judgments but, watching today's match it made me think a lot about that because of some sinister poiints. A lot of strange unforced error from the European Doubles team, that I don't usually see in a doubles match. Missing a lot of sitting volleys, shanking the forehand in the net etc.. Also, everything seemed to be following a script. They Loose the firs set then suddenly, in the second begin to completely outplay Bjork/Mac and then in the tie Breaker They achieve a nice lead and end up Loosing 5 Points in a roll to Finish at a tight 10/9.

    I know the tournament Is making much Higher Revenues in every level By McEnroe Winning. Not just a packed House but , the money to sell the rights to TV Plus , ATP is really Doing a campaign to Push Doubles this year and Johny Mac Winning a title seems to be the way to go. again , maybe I am a little Paranoid but, that is what is on my mind right now , Hopefuly is not what really is going on...
     
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  9. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    tripp phillips played tennis at unc-chapel hill at the same time i was in school there and i saw him play a lot. he's from charlotte and had a great college career until he had major shoulder surgery and basically didn't play for almost 2 years. he came back for his senior year and beat the #1 player in the nation (daniel andersson from VCU) in the regular season and got to the quarterfinals of the NCAAs. he's a very smart player but doesn't have any weapons. in fact his serve (esp after his surgery) was the worst part of his game which is surprising since he's having success in doubles.
     
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  10. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    I enjoyed watching Tripp Phillips -- he played very solidly; returning serve, he passed JMac a couple of times.
     
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  11. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    "Inferior" as singles players possibly--but why don't you watch Roddick play doubles and try to volley and tell me what player would look "inferior." In fact, there are tons of doubles specialist who are in fact--excellent doubles players but poor singles players--its a completely different style of tennis. I strongly object to the ATPs new doubles rules.
     
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  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The Bryan's lawsuit had no merit. Any sports body has the right to change the rules as they see fit. The reason it was successful in undoing some of the proposed changes are: 1) The Bryans are a US-based top team. Lots of tournaments and money involved in the US. Bhupathi was another person who joined the suit. Other top doubles players supporting the Bryans were Paes, JMac and Martina. And Wayne Bryan is a well-connected loud-mouth. 2) The lawsuit would have brought out into the open the appearance fees that top singles players receive. When fans find out about that, they may be less impressed by Andy's and Roger's charities and exhibitions and realize that the fees are driving ticket prices up. The tournament directors and singles players all have a stake in hushing it up.

    The lawsuit was completely frivolous. A lot of noise is still made about MacDonald's coffeee spilliing on a grandma's lap and the damages awarded (which was substantially reduced later, but people don't follow it). Yet everyone was silent about the Bryans suit. It seemed to be a "union" move to ensure guaranteed income for them. Tomorrow the Grand Slams can decide to make every match best of 3. As long as the votes on the committee are properly counted, and the health of the players is not jeopardized, where is the legal issue?
     
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  13. bigserving

    bigserving Semi-Pro

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    Cronin is right. Many of the doubles players on the tour are merely singles players who were in town and got bounced out of the singles qualies.

    It would be my guess that there are few if any players who wish to only play doubles. It comes down to a talent level thing.

    I happen agree with the ATP in their attempt to lure higher ranked singles players to play in the doubles events. Judging by the crowds to watch McEnroe play at San Jose, the ATP's assertion is right.

    If and when the doubles draw becomes more popular with ticket buying fans, the scoring format can always be changed back to the original format.


    Why was this thread moved anyway?
     
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  14. cak

    cak Professional

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    I wonder what would happen if they had a double only tourney, with a higher payout. At the SAP the singles winner gets $52K, winners in doubles split $16K. If they had a doubles only tourney, paying out $50K to split, I wonder what the crowds would look like. At the SAP the doubles matches with McEnroe drew better than the singles matches with Hewitt. At the Bank of the West a doubles match of no-names out draws a singles match of no names. (They often run both during the day, so you can see where the crowds are.) If you had a tournament that drew the best doubles only players would people be interested in watching?
     
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  15. simi

    simi Hall of Fame

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    Hear, hear! Agree with your other thoughts too.
     
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  16. gregraven

    gregraven Semi-Pro

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    I respectfully disagree. The ATP isn't just "any" sports body: It's the players' association. As such, it is supposed to represent the best interests of the players. However, in this case it seems as though the ATP has come to believe that it has an existence apart from the players -- much the way the U.S. government has come to believe that it exists separate from the citizens and taxpayers. If the ATP isn't representing the best interests of the players, then the players have every right to challenge, change, dismantle, or replace it with something they feel is more representative.
     
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  17. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Well, from what I've seen of McEnroe/Bjorkman, they could be a huge threat at Grand Slams, if they enter. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they won a few more titles, if they continue to play together.
     
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  18. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    Certainly seems to be that way right now, unfortunately.


    Easier said than done, apparently.
     
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  19. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Yup. What he said....

    - KK
     
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  20. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    As Deuce, Phil and others point out at times, I am a lawyer. And I read the Bryans' lawsuit, and I thought the settlement was well done. Look how much exposure doubles is getting these days. Not only is Mac winning a tournament with Jonas in San Jose, but the Bryans are doing their chest bump at the NY stock exchange.

    That type of exposure used to be reserved to singles players. I think this is HUGE. And I love it.

    And I think a lot of reason the doubles players can move on from this is because of the Bryans. They can play their music wherever, and can be promoted as the Bryans Brothers tennis and the Bryan Brothers Band. They are a big reason why doubles is still moving on, and I give them credit for that. They live in the town next to me in California, and everyone here is very proud of them. But from my perspective, I think they are the key to us winning the Davis Cup this year. Doubles are very important!!!!
     
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  21. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    I think the recent attention given to doubles will be very short-lived. It is a product of the dispute over the changes to doubles, pure and simple. The ATP came off as being the big, bad bullies, and they want to artificially 'clear the air' by way of providing more promotional opportunities to doubles players.

    The McEnroe thing is merely a novelty - nothing more. And such novelties are bound to attract attention (and everyone knows that McEnroe adores attention). Whether McEnroe 'worked with' the ATP towards this 'comeback' of his is unknown. I do find it quite interesting, however, that Mac the Mouth had very little - if anything - to say about the changes the ATP announced for doubles. One would think that McEnroe's voice would be the first - and loudest - objection heard. But that wasn't at all the case, interestingly. And now, he suddenly returns to the tour as a doubles player. Hmmm...

    Just watch - all the recent doubles promotion is just a smokescreen. It's the ATP saying "see, we love doubles - that's why we want to protect it with these new rules". Pure BS. The ATP just doesn't want to be perceived as the 'bad guys'. Believe it - the love fest with doubles won't last.
     
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  22. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    Well, that's a positive view of things. *lol* But I love doubles, and I think that with the Bryans behind us, the US can win the Davis Cup this year.
     
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  23. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Deuce - I pray your POV just turns out to be "cynicism" when we look back on things next year. (But a big part of me is afraid your are correct....)

    - KK
     
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  24. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Actually, McEnroe had plenty to say about doubles. A few years ago, he came out saying that the tours should split. He said that doubles should be forced to make it on its own. McEnroe went on to say that doubles could be successful, but it would take a shift in how it was presented.

    Regarding the new format of doubles, McEnroe opposed the format when it was adopted by the Senior Tour some years ago. After playing and winning under it, he rethought his objections. McEnroe was interviewed during the SAP Open and had some comments regarding as well. He said that the new format suited him at his age because he couldn't commit mentally or physically to longer venues such as Grand Slams.
     
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  25. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    I wasn't aware of that. I suppose my attempts to 'tune him out' have been more successful than I'd realized.

    But I was referring more to his comments on the recent changes to doubles on the ATP tour. McEnroe is known as someone who claims to want to protect the game, and as somewhat of a traditionalist(wanting a return to wood racquets, his complimentary view of the 'good ol' days', his admiration of Laver, etc.) - one would think that he'd certainly object very loudly to this messing with the doubles game. But that wasn't the case.

    This isn't surprising. McEnroe's always been this way - he loves to 'talk the talk', but won't 'walk the walk'. In the end, he's not concerned about what's best for the game, as he so often claims is his concern - he's concerned about what's best for John McEnroe.
     
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  26. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Roddick has 2 or 3 doubles titles to his credit. I doubt Fisher/Phillips or the Bryans will ever get anywhere near a singles finals. I have no prob with the game of doubles, but the specialization does bother me. This wasn't the case in the 80s, most of the best doubles teams were decent singles players. Look at the Woodies, both had good singles careers in addition to their doubles. The Bryans don't even try to play singles, which is sad.

    The senior tour doesn't play no-ad.
     
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  27. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    One of them already has. Facts are a good thing to check before making assertions like that ;)
     
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  28. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Which one has? None according to atptennis.com
    Unless you are counting challengers/futures which obviously don't count.
     
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  29. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

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    A Bryan made the final of Newport if I remember correctly.
     
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  30. alienhamster

    alienhamster Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, Bob did a couple of years ago. I saw part of the match.
     
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  31. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    No, he made the semis of Newport '03.
     
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  32. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Oh, it was only the semis?

    ...****, I really need to get my facts straight...

    :( sorry 'bout that.
     
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  33. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

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    You could argue reaching the semis is getting 'near' a final.
     
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