Current and future college players in ATP events

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by Clemson_tennis, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    McDonald took the 2nd set in a tie break. Pretty good turn around from losin in the qtrs.

    On serve 1-2, in the 3rd.

    On another note, pretty sure there's a proud poppa bear lurking around here somewhere.
     
  2. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    >>>>>>>>>>............. ;)
     
  3. TopDawg

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    14 points for Mackenzie with a stunning win over Mahut
     
  4. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    Incredible stuff, he should take a look at duke haha - with Cunha gone now there's room at the top, and I hear it's only a short drive from Cali ;)

    In all seriousness though, best of luck to him tomorrow, hope we get to read your report of a us open experience in a couple months
     
  5. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    Starting Monday I'll be spending quite a bit of time roaming around western and southern, hope to see some of these young Americans still around

    Will try to find time to post some pics and thoughts on folks I see play
     
  6. JLyon

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    Congrats man got to watch some on the computer, nice game and convincing win
     
  7. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    Congratulations on making the final. If he wins I'll see him at US Open. Sorry but I have to root for the opponent from Rhode Island in finals. Known him a long time. Note to TW staff: these kids aren't juniors anymore- they have all entered and played pro events.
     
  8. TopDawg

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    With the win Rola will move up to 204 and if he wins tomorrow in the final he'll be up to close to 175. However, he does have to defend 46 points in the next month for 2 future wins and 1 runner-up.
     
  9. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    in addition to altamirano, kozlov is having a nice run to redeem himself after getting upset in the main draw - should be a good consos final matchup with schneider today

    considering he took down mcdonald among others in the consos, and mcdonald just took down mahut, it must be an infallible conclusion that he's already a top 80 atp player at his young age - no, not being serious, but give it two years
     
  10. TopDawg

    TopDawg Legend

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    Blaz Rola dropped the 1st set 6-3 but is up a break at 4-3 in the 2nd against Agustin Velotti in the Rio Challenger final - Live scoring
     
  11. TopDawg

    TopDawg Legend

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    Rola goes down 6-3 6-4. Mackenzie Mcdonald is up a break in the 3rd against Steve Johnson in Cincy
     
  12. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    McDonald about to serve for the match, 5-4 in the 3rd.

    Edit. McDonald just closed it out, 6-4 in the 3rd. Still hard to believe he lost in the qtrs of Kzoo, and lost in he backdraw, then comes back and beats 2 top 100 pros back to back to qualify for a MS 1000.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  13. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    awesome win for mcdonald again, if he plays day session tomorrow i'll check him out
     
  14. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Its what happens when you have no pressure. Find a way to play with no pressure, come out blazing and things can go well.

    amazing still
     
  15. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    how about that zoo final?

    congrats dad, good luck to him at us open, caught a bit of it on webcam and he looks like he plays with a really solid head on his shoulders
     
  16. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    So where will Mac squared end up ranked even if he loses in the first round proper?
     
  17. TopDawg

    TopDawg Legend

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    730 give or take a few. Not too bad for 2 days work.
     
  18. ClarkC

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    Kozlov beats Schneider 7-5, 6-3 in the consolation finals. Was Kozlov the only pro in the event, with everyone else still college eligible?
     
  19. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Collin Altamirano is a beast!!! How many unseeded guys have won the zoo??

    He destroyed the field
     
  20. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Schneider and Oosterbaan win the dubs at the zoo, I think that gets them into the Open draw
     
  21. TopDawg

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    1st unseeded winner ever
     
  22. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Excuse me if I missed it but what are Altamirano's college plans?
     
  23. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    indeed all winners men and women in the 18s singles and doubles get a wild card into the main draw of the us open

    amazing stuff dreams are made of
     
  24. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    wow and to do it in such convincing fashion is amazing to say the least
     
  25. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    Very excited to go to my first US Open. Hoping CA pulls a Mackie (huge congrats to him as well!).
     
  26. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    Did you post this elsewhere as well?? Was reading some comments online about the McDonald - Johnson match and saw a post from a name, who's is a blast from the past (SoCal), that said pretty much the same thing.
     
  27. db379

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    Klahn won his first Challenger in the final of Aptos, CA beating Evans of the UK. Great win for Brad, he's had a great summer with several finals in challengers, and I like the way he has improved over the past year. Hope to see him at the US Open.
     
  28. db379

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    Klahn has now reached his highest ranking ever at #123. He beat world #82 in the semis of Aptos en route to win the tournament. Very impressive win! Wish you good luck Brad for the rest of the summer and for the US Open.
     
  29. tennisballer

    tennisballer Rookie

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    I agree with many of the posters on here that say the Stanford men's program is a shell of it's former self and they are no longer able to land the top Americans (relatively speaking of course) because most players are going there and regressing. My question to everyone is Does Stanford and in particular coach Whitlinger, who next to Coach Center at UT, critics say needs to be fired, get enough credit for what Bradley Klahn is doing on tour? Out of the class of 2011, him and Steve Johnson are looking the absolute cream of the crop.
     
  30. db379

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    that's a good question, and a difficult one. It is absolutely true that Stanford has not been the same since Dick Gould retired. They were the #1 program in the nation for 20+ years and they are now nowhere. Sad, very sad...
    I have to say that Whit has been able to recruit some of the top US players over the years, Clayton, Klahn, Thatcher, etc... and they have been competitive but not as much as they should have been with the potential they had.

    It seems that Klahn was always highly motivated to improve and become pro when at Stanford. Something that not all players are willing to do, with good reasons... Coach Whit certainly helped him and Klahn was able to use efficiently the resources Stanford has to offer (which are excellent indeed).

    So, I think it will depend on each player and how motivated they are, I don't think Whit will make a great player out of a very good player on his own, and that's probably not his goal either.
     
  31. db379

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    Btw, Klahn and Johnson are class of 2012, not 2011... In the past year Klahn has greatly improved his footwork, his BH and his consistency to which I attribute his recent very good results. This has nothing to do with Whit.
     
  32. B1G Tennis

    B1G Tennis New User

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    You make it sound like Klahn came in as some no-name. He was the top recruit in his class and a top 15 junior in the world. He also started tennis really late (when he was 11), so people thought he had even more potential than that ranking suggested. The fact is that Klahn didn't improve very much in college, at least to the level people thought he would. And once he left college, he has noticeably stepped up his game.

    If Klahn is the best selling point for Whitlinger, that really doesn't speak well for his resume.
     
  33. SuperJimmy

    SuperJimmy Rookie

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    Yeah I think it has more to do with the player than the coach. I think a lot of top players just never really had 'pro' aspirations, or maybe they did at one time and once they went to Stanford, decided they wanted to do something else when they graduate. Once they've made that choice, all of a sudden the level of drive and determination to get to that next level goes down.

    If you look at Matt Bruch, he was supposed to be hot stuff. I thought he had a really sick game, but I think you could tell the various tennis videos as time went on he was more focused on school. Same with Clayton, it was clear there was a huge drop off in his level of play between his sophomore and junior seasons, which just so happens to be when it gets more intense in classes due to focusing on major coursework. Thacher, I think he was just hampered by a bunch of injuries, especially to the back, which made it hard to progress. You can even look at 'lower level' guys like Dennis Lin. He tore it up on the courts when he first joined (beating a lot of guys nobody thought he could)...then he got into Engineering, and everything went downhill on the courts.

    Sometimes there just aren't enough hours in the day and not enough gas in the tank to be really really good at two things that both take a lot of time to be successful. I think it's just a wave. At some point, one huge player is going to commit, and other huge players might jump on the bandwagon. Also, I think it is completely ignoring what the players prefer (in terms of locale, family, friends, etc). If you look at TRN, some of the TOP TOP recruits didn't even consider any west coast schools. Those on the west coast and are going to UCLA, didn't even have USC on their list. So it isn't just Stanford not getting the best players.

    Is the expectation that the coach is supposed to produce ATP pros (potentially 'slumming it up' in the 100-200 ranks at best)? For me, if I was a parent, I would be more impressed that the players going into his program graduate and become financial analysts and engineers while they're still competing at a very high level of tennis with the best in the nation.
     
  34. tennisballer

    tennisballer Rookie

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    In no way, shape or form was I saying Klahn was a chump of a recruit. What I was pointing out was the fact that for several years there after Gould retired Stanford was still able to pull in the top Americans (Klahm Clayton, Thacher, Ruch, Lin, Kandath, etc). Klahn was the only one to breakthrough on to the pro circuit.
     
  35. GRANITECHIEF

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    Seems like there is only a handful of college players that make it to the top 100.

    Maybe the time spent in college is not as effective for a player to maximize their game, due to all the other distractions, whereas training for and competing against the pros is better.

    Any thoughts?
     
  36. raging

    raging Professional

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    There are only handfuls of young players who get into the top 100 period. Even fewer players manage to stay there.
    College play allows young players to work hard on their game, body & mind & prepare for what life throws at them.
    It is a great opportunity to further their life education & at the same time prepare for the pro tour if they want to try it.
    As mentioned, not many make it & the rewards are probably not high enough unless you make it into and stay in the top 100.
    The great thing about college is that it gives you a degree and life experience that you may not get anywhere else.
    For some that work hard it can be a springboard to the pros.
    (eg John Isner. Ben Becker, Somdev & lately Steve Johnson & now Bradley Klahn).
    I have deliberately added a few foreign players because it offers them opportunities too.
    For others it offers a free education on scholarship and a unique educational opportunity.
    I can only see the positive, either way.
    One point on Klahn, I don't think he comes over his backhand enough either & he still has to work a lot on his movement. He has had a great run in the US challengers but his next step is obviously playing top 100 matches week in, week out. Johnson is more solid, complete in my view.
     
  37. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Good points. College is always a good choice. The kids at larger programs get to play Futures in the fall, sometimes in the spring as well. Depending on where they go to school some get to play challenger tournaments as well. I know a program that has a WC into an ATP qualifying event as well. During the summer college kids can play plenty of Futures circuit tournaments too.

    Are some kids better off going pro instead of college? Sure, they are the exception.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  38. tennisballer

    tennisballer Rookie

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    We've also failed to mention Kevin Anderson (who spent a couple years at Illinois) who has been top 20 for the last year and a half, and Bobby Reynolds who has been top 100". As many have states before, the game is much more different today than it was 10-12 years ago. If you were going to college back then, you pretty much had no shoot at making a living at playing professional tennis. Heck, if you were a top 5 college player you probably weren't making it. The game is so physical now that players are peaking at a much later age (23-27) and still able to play very high level tennis well into their mid 30's. As "Andfor" stated above, college tennis is not for everyone but it absolutely can serve as a viable pathway to successful professional tennis.
     
  39. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    Maybe its just like the pros, where people focus mainly on their strengths while hiding their weaknesses, and not working on those??

    There have been a bunch of recent guys who've come out of college with no backhand, and these are two handers. I'd say Johnson, Rhyne Williams, and Isner. I'd disagree with the above poster who says Johnson is more complete than Klahn. Johnson's backhand is horrible, which is why he slices so much. But, he spent 4 yrs in college, so surely they had time to work on it. However, since Johnson is taller than Klahn, he has a bigger serve, and his forehand is bigger, so he's had more immediate pro results. But, right now, they're all ranked within about 25 places of each other.
     
  40. tennisballer

    tennisballer Rookie

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    Rob C. Rhyme Williams is extremely solid off the ground and I might argue that his backhand is stronger than his forehand. I agree that Steve probably has more upside than Klahn for the simple fact that he moves a more efficiently around the court and has a legit weapon (serve) although Klahn has a solid one as well.
     
  41. mken24

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  42. ClarkC

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  43. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    Rhyne has a very good serve and forehand. He's been working on his backhand, but, like Johnson, he would predominantly hit a slice backhand. Whenever a two hander hits a slice backhand instead of coming over the ball, its because he/she has a weak stroke.
     
  44. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    after spending the last four days roaming the grounds of cincy masters watching a large chunk of the top 100 play, i have had another reality check re: how good these guys are and how tough it is to hang at that level for even a brief period, much less long enough to make it a career

    it has been a few years since i spent numerous days around top level pro tennis, and they keep getting better

    whether you go the sock / kudla / goffin / fratangelo straight-to-pros route or the isner / anderson / johnson / klahn college route - chances are near zero of spending years consistently in the top 100

    guys with the talent of tursunov (who i watched toy with blake and ferrer the past two days, with superhuman ball striking ability, can't even stay consistently in the top 100 year after year)

    unless a kid is the next nadal and winning tons of atp level matches by the time he has finished high school, throwing away the life and tennis experience that comes with a college tennis scholarship at a top program and a great school would be absolutely clinically insane, if you ask me

    maybe, maybe, your chances of making it go up ever so slightly only focusing on tennis for those few years, 0.05% to 0.1% perhaps, but the difference in what you miss out on is so much bigger from my perspective

    _________

    one other thing i was reminded of this week is how different the levels are inside the top 100 - watched goffin take out the canadian hot-hand pospisil (coming back from 3-6 with pospisil to serve in 3rd set tb), amazed by his ground game, fight, and fitness (super nice guy talking to fans after the match on an outer court before walking away, btw) - and turned to my friend as we looked at the draw to see that djokovic was next to say "god, he's going to get murdered" (which came true today in 50 ugly minutes) - even someone as talented as him may not ever be consistently top 50 year after year - just doesn't have the ball blazing off his racquet like a young raonic or grigor dimitrov does, wherever that ability comes from

    ____________

    best of luck to anyone trying to make it in pro tennis, whatever route they take

    time to finish off the week tomorrow seeing my first fed-nadal matchup in person - very pro federer fan base in cincy got the old man through his match with haas today - don't know if that will be enough tomorrow
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  45. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Good summary Mike, had similar thoughts watching the qualies saturday where the 1 seed was ranked 35 and the standard was amazing.
     
  46. ChiefAce

    ChiefAce Semi-Pro

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    The depth and players are better than they've ever been. Look at Mackenzie Mcdonald taking out two top 100 players in qualifying after losing 2 times at Kalamazoo in the juniors. The field runs real deep right now, the top 5 are just a freakshow.
     
  47. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    a few photos from W&S by the way (aware this is entirely the wrong forum - but i hate the back and forth 'who is the GOAT' bashing of the pros forum and can't get involved over there haha):

    for those who haven't been to a top tier pro tournie, i highly encourage this one, especially if you can get a week off and go to some daytime sessions like i did - any seats at the venue are for the taking (not assigned) except on center and one sideline of grandstand - and most folks pack into center court so you can reliably get first row most any other court - much easier to get close to the action than my experience at US Open or Roland Garros in the past

    http://postimg.org/image/3mbirnlnd/4f8ea40b/
    dimitrov (while he beat almagro)

    http://postimg.org/image/rhd4d7p3r/d0d7d37d/
    harrison practicing while BG spouts a whole bunch of nonsense to his dad - seriously, he was jabbering about how RH was doing with the ladies and all this nonsense, while the dad just had a look on his face like 'please leave us alone and let us prepare for ferrer'

    http://postimg.org/image/5fjo4r85j/7f0652d7/
    hingis-hantuchova during their loss to errani-vinci

    http://postimg.org/image/xwe1346nf/a74729d0/
    some no name walking past me through the parking lot, leaving from a practice session - i played it cool 'hey rafa' until he passed and i could whip out the phone

    http://postimg.org/image/8onbzpt29/89f5951e/
    best timed photo so far - errani contact point
     
  48. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    and just a few mas (then i'll leave this thread to it's proper subject, promise)

    http://postimg.org/image/j8h56jg5b/c015c945/
    stephens over sharapova (was fun watching connors look disgruntled in a box nearby during this match) - i swear someone needs to teach sharapova topspin so she doesn't hit 9000 balls in the net any time her timing is slightly off

    http://postimg.org/image/bnl6ucex1/3c2aaa5d/
    fed over kohlschreiber

    http://postimg.org/image/w40sw0ixj/addfd0c5/
    the goff spending time with fans after his big 3-6 to 8-6 3rd set tb win over pospisil, one of the nastiest backhand passing shots from way off the court i've seen at 4-6 in that tb

    http://postimg.org/image/yxnew87zp/71926887/
    murray walking in the park against benneteau

    http://postimg.org/image/8yal78t31/937581fe/
    isner bombing against raonic

    http://postimg.org/image/la21rqesh/a771859a/
    the woz playing against super annoying junkballer niculescu

    http://postimg.org/image/dh8l4d07n/528355dc/
    kerber, who i was super impressed by (incredible at getting low and hitting pick up groundies without retreating and giving up court position - like in this photo) even though li na was firing on all cylinders and hit enough winners to get the 4,4 win - kerber has a big future i think
     
  49. TopDawg

    TopDawg Legend

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    Cool pics mikej. I went to Cincy a few years back and I got to sit front row on one of the courts and saw Almagro and Delpo before they got in the top 20. Plenty of good action going on outside of center court.
     
  50. TopDawg

    TopDawg Legend

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    As expected several Wake Forest players got wild cards into the ATP 250 in Winston Salem. Romain Bogaerts into the main draw and Pedro Dumont, Adam Lee, and Aws Laaribi into qualies. Northwestern freshmen Strong Kirchheimer also in qualies along with several recent college grads
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013

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