Davenport's groundstrokes

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by CEvertFan, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone besides myself appreciate just how well Lindsey hit the ball? Her contact was always so clean and very technically sound that you could even hear the difference as compared to other players when her racket made contact with the ball. To be able to hit that well is a tribute to how good of a player she was even though her movement was always a major weakness. I always watched her in awe when she was in full command of a rally.
     
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  2. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    But she was SOOOO slow.
    The 2005 Wimbledon final was embarrassing ...

    Condi
     
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  3. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    I did say her movement was a major weakness did I not???
     
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  4. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    It is easy to hit a clean stroke when you wait until the ball comes into your comfort zone.

    Condi
     
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  5. CEvertFan

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    Even the pros and commentators acknowledge that she hit the ball more cleanly than almost anyone else.
     
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  6. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    American pros and commentators?

    Condi
     
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  7. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    You are right. Her strokes are pretty close to textbook. So clean, such control, with so much power created with such ease and little effort.

    To be able to achieve what she has with very limited(to put it kindly)athletic skills speaks to the extreme excellence of her strokes.
     
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  8. Alexandros

    Alexandros Professional

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    Embarassing? She matched Venus point for point and held was one away from the championship despite being 'slow'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2007
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  9. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Davenport's movement wasn't great, but she had a great reverse FH on the run. If you couldn't the ball past her FH side, you were in deep trouble. This changes the makeup, because you then had to think twice about blasting shots past her.

    She also had a more classic stroke than her peers, and didn't swing across the body as much as her peers. As a result, her swing arcs were linear, which coupled with very deep shoulder turn and her height gave her both natural power and control.
     
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  10. Mad iX

    Mad iX Semi-Pro

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    She was noticeably slower than the rest of the Top 10 at her peak but she still hit #1 and no small number of slams.
    Imagine if she was as quick as everyone else ...
     
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  11. LarougeNY

    LarougeNY Professional

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    Can you hold your own and hit clean strokes when Top WTA pros whack the ball into your comfort zone?
     
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  12. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    In regards to comfort zone -- remember her biggest weapon was the DTL running forehand. She wasn't fast, but if she was moving and you couldn't hit the ball past her, you were in big trouble.

    The real limiting factor for her, really like so many top female tennis players, was her mental strength. Her game could break down when she was put in a bind. Fought nerves through the end of her career.
     
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  13. backhander

    backhander Rookie

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    Condi is just bitter because Davenport beat Graf at the Wimby finals and into retirement.
     
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  14. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Slow enough to shock Graf in the '99 Wimbledon finals?
     
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  15. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    My thoughts exactly. I think that match was one of the factors made Graf decide it was time to exit.
     
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  16. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Graf was injured (thigh). She even had to retire from mixed doubles with McEnroe the day before.

    The singles final against Davenport was very close.
    Both had only 2 break points. Davenport converted them, Graf not.
    In the end Davenport had made 70 points, Graf 67.

    No comparison to the easy win Graf had in the FO quarters that year.


    Condi
     
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  17. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Davenport of 2005 was over-the-hill.
    Don't forget that she won her last slam in January 2000.

    Condi
     
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  18. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Funny how you just type some facts just to say you have an arguement or a rebuttal(the very competent "lawyer" that you are). Seriously a lot of people expected, maybe, including me, that Graf would win the 1999 Wimbledon. After all, she has won it numerous times and that her game is suited to grass and Davenport is so the opposite. But what happened was that Graf ran into a red hot Davenport. And don't give me that bull that it was close. The score maybe but Davenport just went ahead without looking back.
    Morale of the match-when somebody is capable of serving well and hitting with consistent power off both sides then it exploits Graf's game. It got to the point where Graf couldn't afford to keep running around her forehand because Davenport can hit the ball with equal ferocity off both sides.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2007
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  19. freelancer

    freelancer Rookie

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    Umm... are we all going to neglect that Davenport had the 2005 Wimbledon match in the bag when she hurt her back?

    And when she stunned Hingis in the 2000 Aussie final. A grand slam that Hingis had won the previous 3 years in a row. Davenport even took the first set 6-1.

    Not to mention the fact that Davenport has a winning record against; Venus, Capriati, Seles, Hingis, Mauresmo... in fact, she has a winning record against 7 of the current top ten players on the WTA tour.

    I think Lindsay could have won more singles titles than she did, but often times her mental game could come into question, as well has her weak movemnet around the court. But all things considered, she has proven to be an amazing player, worthy of respect.
     
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  20. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    What happened is that Graf was injured.
    She made only 3 points less than Davenport (67-70).
    She hit more winners (2).
    She didn't convert her 2 break points.
    Davenport converted her 2 break points.

    End of story.

    "Red hot Davenport", my ass ....


    Condi
     
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  21. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    Funny how injuries, sickness, etc. only count when it hurts Steffi with you. I was rooting for Steffi that day, but Lindsey won it fair and square. Steffi herself would tell you that.
     
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  22. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    I never heard that Steffi called Davenport "red hot".
    Davenport was the better player that day.
    3 points better. Which is enough. Same in, say, basketball.

    Condi
     
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  23. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    I never said anything about Steffi saying that Lindsey was "red hot." She might have. But I don't have that quote and didn't assert that. It was a close match and could have gone either way. Steffi was a champion even in defeat, not offering excuses for her loss.
     
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  24. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Lol Condi I am pretty sure you were turning in your grave when Graf got spanked in supposedly her living room that day. Yeah I said it. Davenport was red hot. Your ass, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure is a totally different matter.
     
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  25. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    NO, all commentators said that not just Americans.
     
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  26. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    good one:)
     
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  27. CEvertFan

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    LOL I agree.
     
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  28. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    I disagree with Rommil that the 1999 Wimbledon final was not a close match, or that Davenport dominated the match. The first set started with a long service game on Graf's serve where she squandered many game points, then a long service game on Davenport's serve where Graf missed a chance to break. The rest of the set was very equal. Then the second set was very equal until 4-5 Davenport serving, when Graf missed an easy forehand(for her)at 15-30 which would have given her double set point. Then on Graf's next service game she played her worst service game of the set with 4 unforced errors in 5 points lost, and still missed a game point and only got broken from deuce. Then Davenport served it out.

    I am not saying Davenport did not play extremely well or deserve to win, but to say it wasnt a close match or Davenport just dominated the whole match is ridiculous.
     
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  29. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    ^OPINION duly noted. If you want to equate "spanked" to "dominated"(your word BTW) then go ahead. The fact remains that majority of us, including me, expected Graf to win that Finals. Now, you mentioned that Graf made a lot of errors in this match, you and Condi might argue that this was due to her injury, I can say it might be due to Davenport's play or both. The fact remains that Davenport executed her game well and she served well. Final score 6-4,7-5....not so close considering Linday was the underdog. 7-5,5-7,7-5 now that would have been close. And I did say that Lindsay never looked back. You said it yourself, Lindsay was serving for the match. So she did, finishing Graf and shocking everybody and even Davenport sounded shocked on the final point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2007
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  30. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Ok I just watched the Davenport-Graf final again and yeah Consdipation, Davenport played RED HOT. Davenport was unquestionably the much better player in that match considering her handicap and history on grass. She kept herself low on shots, had the better composure,played very calmly and chose her shots very well and oh did I mention she was never broken on her serve? Graf on the other hand played with a foul mood about 3/4 of the total match, kept running side to side, talked to herself, was never able to capitalize on any break points and was THE PLAYER WAITING FOR THAT SMALL WINDOW TO OPEN but nothing came. And oh 3-2 on the first set, Graf saw the ball was in and didn't have a play on it and she didn't say anything. All in all, Graf didn't have any reasons to deserve to win that match because you know why? Davenport just exemplified how it is to be a better player that day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2007
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  31. ubel

    ubel Professional

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    When I first saw her, not only did her ability to hit with such consistently clean contact surprise me, but the power with which every shot had. She controlled the ball so very well, was in awe at first sight :eek:
     
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  32. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    Ok fair enough. I just believed it was a much more tight match then your initial depiction, but I understand what you are saying all the same. BTW, I do not imply any of Graf's errors were due to her injury.
     
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  33. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    One other thing that always amazed me about her strokes is that she hit with so much power without seeming to throw her whole body into the shot ala Venus or Serena or even Seles. Her shots were effortlessly powerful which just means stroke production of the highest caliber.
     
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  34. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    I think what it is that Davenport LEANED into her shots well instead of throwing her body into it.
     
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  35. jkonecne

    jkonecne Rookie

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    Her size was a big part of it. She could control points so well so she has so much time to get ready for her shots.
     
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  36. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Of course it is ridiculous. You have to be a rah-rah-rah redneck US "patriot" to say so.
    Davenport won 70 points and Graf 67 during the whole match.
    Both player had exactly TWO break points. Davenport converted hers, Graf not. Graf hit more winners, BTW.

    Condi
     
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  37. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    She won with 70-67 on points played, hit less winners than Graf.

    I'd call that "Selesian style domination" .... :D :D :D :D

    Condi
     
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  38. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    :D :D :D :D
    Dude, have you ever played tennis yourself ... ?



    Condi
     
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  39. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    4.0 rating here. You?
     
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  40. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    What is a "4.0 rating"?
    Something from you national tennis federation?

    How exciting .... :D :D :D


    Condi
     
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  41. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    You can spit out any number you want yet Graf failed to consolidate any chances she had to break. Davenport showed more control and composure to her game while Graf played in a very foul and sometimes angry mood. Now, what more do I need to point out to you that Davenport exemplified how to be the better player that day? Graf lost because SHE WAS THE PLAYER LOOKING FOR THAT WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY TO GET AHEAD and SHE FAILED.
     
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  42. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Google it yourself you pee drinking, insecure Nigerian.I didn't state my rating to excite you. Don't bother answering my question about your level of play because it is not a matter of interest to me.
     
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  43. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Ah, our little racist shows his true colours now and then ...

    Condi
     
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  44. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Nice try Condi.....but I am sorry to tell you it's your insecurity, your low self esteem and your poor intelligence level that's playing tricks on you that's why you feel that way. I do not have control over that. I said Nigerian and there is nothing wrong with that. It is like saying American or Japanese or Russian. Like I said, it's your low perception of yourself that's making you feel that way. And that Condi, is your problem, not mine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
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  45. CEvertFan

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    Keep in mind that Davenport won that Wimbledon title without losing a set throughout the tournament. In fact she did that with all 3 of her Grand Slam titles.
     
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  46. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    I find it amazing she went the last almost 7 years of her career without winning a single slam title. To me 3 slams seems too low for her, with all the tournaments she won, all the success she had vs other top end players of her time. Capriati is the golden girl in the U.S media's eyes, but I actually find it unbelievable she does not have more slams then Capriati.
     
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  47. CEvertFan

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    The two greatest obstacles were that she was a bit mentally fragile, even more so after she started getting lots of injuries, and her not so great movement. If winning matches was just a case of clean power hitting then Davenport would have 20 slams because she just loved to get into a hitting contest against opponents because she knew she could almost always outhit them, but they knew that the primary way to beat her was to make her run instead. Her opponents also knew she could/would get down on herself when she was under pressure and took full advantage, as they should have.

    Even so I agree with you that it is astounding that she only has 3 Slams but she did finish as the year end #1 four times in her career. She is also 9th on the all time list of winningest players in history with regard to singles titles won.

    Winningest players on the WTA Tour

    Player Country Titles Majors

    Martina Navratilova USA 167 18
    Chris Evert USA 157 18
    Steffi Graf GER 107 22
    Margaret Smith-Court AUS 92 24
    Evonne Goolagong AUS 68 7
    Billie Jean King USA 67 12
    Virginia Wade GBR 55 3
    Monica Seles USA 53 9
    Lindsay Davenport USA 51 3
    Martina Hingis SUI 44 5
    Venus Williams USA 34 5
    Conchita Martinez ESP 33 1
    Kim Clijsters BEL 33 1
    Justine Henin BEL 31 5
    Tracy Austin USA 30 2
     
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  48. CEvertFan

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    If she hadn't injured her back during the Wimbledon final of '05, she would have won it. She was playing her very best tennis that day (until the injury during the 2nd set) and although she did lose, I don't think she showed signs of mentally crumbling but the injury did affect her serve and movement just enough. She did go down fighting for all she was worth that day though. I felt so bad for her when the match was over.
     
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  49. basil J

    basil J Hall of Fame

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    I thought this thread was in appreciation of her groundstrokes, not how many slams she won? I got the chance to see her play live back in 01 and she hit the ball VERY solid. She is a lousy mover, which in my mind even makes her strokes that much more impressive. She also had a big first serve...
     
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  50. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    No, it's rednecks like you who think "nig.gers" from Nigeria might drink pee now and then. The word association in your post was extremely revealing. The sub-conscious: Pee-drinking - Nigerian.

    Condi
     
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