David Ferrer is NOT mentally tough as people think he is.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Amelie Mauresmo, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. Amelie Mauresmo

    Amelie Mauresmo Banned

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    Serena Williams coach Patrick mouratoglou is correct about David Ferrer his problem when he loses to the top 4 is mentality. People go on and on about David Ferrer's size yes he's a small guy compared to those giants in the top 4. But Ferrer has also shown despite being five foot nine he has gotten VERY CLOSE to knocking off the top 4 in ATP Finals. However, it is shocking that Ferrer doesn't believe in his abilities despite being number five in the world.

    I've never seen a top five player so mentally fragile like David Ferrer. It is all between the ears for Ferrer I believe Mouratoglou is right he psyches himself out which is such a shame.

    Ferrer doesn't BELIEVE in himself he's too modest especially when he faces Nadal. In the Barcelona final last year Ferrer had so many chances to beat Nadal but he just chokes. At the Italian Open semifinals last year Ferrer had a chance to win the match again he finds a way to lose.

    It is like Ferrer confidence is so low against the top 4 it is a self fulfilling prophecy he already LOST the match prior to going on the court.

    Yes, I know Ferrer is only five foot nine and he lacks the power of the top 4 but he's played some tight matches against them and he usually loses.

    I think the issue with Ferrer is he gets tight and he chokes when it matters the most. Today, Ferrer had a huge opportunity which I think for him could have been a psychological breakthrough but once again he finds a way to lose.



    Honestly, I thought today Ferrer would have his breakthrough up a set serving to go 5-4 in the second set he capitulates gets tight and ultimately loses a tight match. Ferrer is not as mentally tough as people make him seem to be.

    Obviously Ferrer is a very strong player and very consistent but he is not mentally strong. Andy Murray did not play great today but he did not need to because Ferrer doesn't have that killer instinct he didn't go for the kill
    today.

    Since Ferrer is over 30 and he's turning 31 next week I doubt he's ever going to win a grand slam which is such a shame.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
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  2. President

    President Legend

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    He has an inferiority complex against the top 4, that's for sure. Against everyone else he is mentally rock solid because he feels on even ground with them.
     
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  3. VAMOSDNA

    VAMOSDNA Banned

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    Ferrer is 0-13 in Finals vs Top 5 players. That says it all.
     
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  4. mattennis

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    Ferrer is very strong (mentally also) against player outside the top-4.

    Against the top-4 players, he almost always finds a way to lose, even in matches where he is ahead and playing well.

    He has said more than once that he thinks he doesn't belong there ( in the top-5 ), he seems to think he is not a great tennis player, but a great worker, and I think it really hampers his chances against the top-4.

    Sometimes you need to think you belong there, that "you are great" (even if it sounds a bit d-bag), because it can help you against the very top-players.
     
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  5. marc45

    marc45 Legend

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    he panicked a bit on match point...should have just played the ball and see if murray botched it
     
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  6. Amelie Mauresmo

    Amelie Mauresmo Banned

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    But today was his huge opportunity, he was beating Murray and it seems to me reality set in serving up a set and 4 all in the second and he lost the match after choking to lose serve. If Ferrer had gotten to 5-4 in the second it would have put tremendous pressure on Murray to serve to stay in the event. But no, Ferrer CHOKES like he usually does. It isn't about Ferrer's size it is about his MIND. Ferrer just doesn't believe in himself and he might need help because his time on tour is limited he's 31 next week. If Ferrer wants to win a slam he has got to calm his nerves when he has chances to beat the top 4.
     
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  7. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    He is not going to win a GS. He sees Federer as a tennis god and himself as a tennis worker. Deep inside his mind he IS NOT allowed to defeat Federer.

    Something similar (but to a way lesser degree) thinks about Nadal and Djokovic (and even Murray).

    It is the opposite of what Djokovic showed back in 2007 (he was SO SURE of himself as the next nº1 player in the world).
     
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  8. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    we shouldn't be lumping murray in with the other three.

    it's not the same thing.
     
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  9. Amelie Mauresmo

    Amelie Mauresmo Banned

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    Well that's a shame because an attitude adjustment is what Ferrer needs. What is the point playing tennis by not BELIEVING you can win when you step on the court? Ferrer's mentality is what has cost him a lot of matches against the top 4. Serena's coach is correct Ferrer has GOT THE GAME to do better but his mind is so weak. I know people attack Bernard Tomic for being a brat BUT if that kid gets the work ethic of Ferrer and have his cocky attitude the top 4 better watch out. Ferrer already is a hard worker but the poor guy psyches himself out.

    The sad thing about Ferrer is it isn't like he's losing all the matches against the top 4 by blow outs. Ferrer has had his chances but he CHOKES mentally like he did again today. Very sad indeed.
     
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  10. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    His bigger limitation is that he has no serve.
     
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  11. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Yeah, agree there is a mental block for Ferrer. Murray also seem to have mental issues!
     
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  12. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I actually agree. He is mentally quite weak in addition to having no more than a generic solid and good game. This match was a bigger extreme of the 2011 Australian Open semis where Murray was also way below par and Ferrer missed set points to go up 2 sets to 0 and fell easily after that. His absolute pathetic efforts against Federer on any surface and against Nadal on clay also speak to this. His mental game is WAY overrated, it is overrated mostly since people think he has to have something as even his tennis game isnt all that great. What he mostly has is consistency, willingness to try in every match against someone not ranked in the top 5 only, and fitness, not much else. This makes the always braindead TMFs claims that Ferrer is a better player than the Michael Chang and Lleyton Hewitt all the more embarassing.
     
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  13. Elite

    Elite Semi-Pro

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    This.

    He always openly admits he doesn't deserve to be ranked alongside the top 4, and this sort of attitude is precisely why he has a ghastly record against them. He just knows he can't beat them.
     
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  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    He´s a modern Harold Solomon with a bit more of power.
     
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  15. RoddickistheMan

    RoddickistheMan Professional

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    PEDS can only get you so far.
     
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  16. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Here's the thing. If Murray actually turned up and played well, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Ferrer played his normal boring game while Murray was self destructing 9/10 times.

    His loss today wasn't his fault. Murray put him in that winning position.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
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  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Dudes he was cramping in the tie break.
     
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  18. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Stop comparing Ferrer with the top 4.

    Murray is closer to Ferrer and Del Potro than with Fed, Rafa and Novak.

    Ferrer also has a pretty decent record with Murray.
     
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  19. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Great post. Hard to believe he'd have a better chance than today.
     
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  20. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Murray is currently ranked #2 in the World. Of course he is part of the top 4, and not inferior to the rest other than possibly Djokovic. Anyone is not part of the top 4 based on current ability it is Federer. Nadal may be ranked behind, but it is already clear he is Djokovics biggest rival at the top of the game still, while Murray is up there too. Federer is something like 9th in the race points for the year and has already gone from #1 to #3 in the last 4 months. The bookies have him as only 4th favorite for the upcoming slams.
     
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  21. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Novak and Rafa will put Murray in his place in the coming slams - the second tier.
     
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  22. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Is that a fact?
     
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  23. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Ferrer vs. Top 4 H2Hs:

    Ferrer : Murray - 5 : 7
    Ferrer : Djokovic - 5 : 10
    Ferrer : Nadal - 4 : 17
    Ferrer : Federer - 0 : 14
     
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  24. Vlad_C

    Vlad_C Semi-Pro

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    The same can be said about a few other players, such as Tsonga, and especially Berdych. Maybe Wawrinka can be included in there, and to a lesser extent Del Potro, although he's starting to believe more in himself.
    These guys certainly have the physical ability to compete against anyone, but when playing against the top 4, it's like they expect to lose, and then of course they do lose.
    And that's too bad, as I think tennis would be a lot more exciting with more players getting a shot at ATP1000s trophies.
     
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  25. VAMOSDNA

    VAMOSDNA Banned

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    Ferrer might get an easy QF at Roland Garros, if Nadal is seeded 5th (or Ferrer might get a Nadal QF lol). So odds are Ferrer will be in the Roland Garros Semis.
     
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  26. spinovic

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    Exactly. That is Ferrer's only chance against those guys. To play his steady game and hope they have a terrible day.

    He doesn't choke against them, nor did he choke today. He failed to convert a MP on Murray's serve. That's no surprise.

    If those guys play their best or something in the neighborhood, he simply doesn't have the ability to beat them. His lack of belief probably makes the scoreline worse, but doesn't change the outcome.
     
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  27. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    It's simple, Ferrer has nothing to hit these guys off court with.

    He knows it and that's why he goes with many doubts on court against the top 4. After the top 4 his solid game is good enough to win most encounters. For him to beat any of the top 4, those guys must either have a REALLY bad day at the office or have some sort of problem.

    The only place where Ferrer has a sort of advantage here is with Murray on clay but I suspect that this will change as well in the future. Ferrer has guts and runs around a lot but he doesn't have anything special in his arsenal. His forehand is good enough, his backhand is very solid most times, his return great but he has real trouble holding serve.

    I remember a match against Fed a couple of years ago, in Cincy I think, where Fed was playing so bad that he looked to be tanking and yet Ferrer simply couldn't hold serve when he broke(and he broke on Fed's UE mostly).

    If he had a special weapon like a delpo forehand I could see him making more waves but as it I don't see it.
     
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  28. Strategy

    Strategy Semi-Pro

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    Who even said David Ferrer was mentally tough? lol. His match today was a perfect example of his lack of mental strength
     
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  29. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    exactly! Murray shouldn't be in the same conversation.

    even then, there is a big gap between what federer and nadal achieve against Ferrer and what Novak does.
     
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  30. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    I don't see anything special about the guy. For me, it's remarkable he's accomplished what he has.
     
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  31. VAMOSDNA

    VAMOSDNA Banned

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    Ferrer's movement is special, and he's the fittest 30+year-old in history. To put it into perspective, if we compare Ferrer's movement to Michael Chang's movement.....what was Chang doing at age 30? That's why Ferrer is special.
     
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  32. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Murray's comments on Ferrer after the match:

    "I don't think he gets the respect that he deserves within the game. He's been in the top five in the world now for at least three years.

    He's improved his game every single year. That takes, you know, a great attitude to be able to do that," said Murray.

    Providing his body holds up, he'll be around the top of the game for as long as he wants or he can, because he's a very, very, good tennis player and has a great attitude."


    Says it all!

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/tennis-murray-delighted-brutal-win-miami-211637564.html
     
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  33. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    You are just hyping Ferrer so as to make Murray's struggle yesterday appear natural.

    Nothing can take away the FACT that Ferrer clearly is a level below Fed, Rafa and Novak.
     
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  34. jdubbs

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    I think Ferrer is mentally tough, he just needs a break through against a top 5 player. Murray's ball lands 3 inches longer on that challenge on match point and we'd all be talking about how strong Ferrer is mentally.

    IMO you can learn more about how to fight for every point and really battle watching Ferrer than any other player in the world. Never tanks a match and plays a point down 0-5 like it's a tiebreak.

    THAT's why he's #4 (really #5) and worth millions with a limited set of tools and talent.
     
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  35. spinovic

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    Saying Ferrer doesn't get the respect he deserves may have been true a year or two ago, but not now.

    You hear this said every time he goes deep and meets a top 4 player. It has been said so much now that it is no longer true.

    He gets the respect he deserves, which is plenty, IMO.

    The amazing thing about Ferrer is that he keeps grinding away. He's in a weird position, and a position in which many guys would give up, not put the level of work in that he obviously does, and be content with a top 30-40 ranking and making a good living.

    He's the 5th best player in the world when all are healthy, who has zero chance to win a major or move up any higher. Meanwhile, a few of the guys below him, guys he beats regularly, are seemingly bigger threats to win majors (one already has) but aren't "better" than him. It does take a unique attitude, IMO, to keep working the way he has and does. To keep working that hard to stay at #5.

    He has earned and deserves the respect he gets. No more, no less.
     
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  36. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    As a junior his coach would lock him in a closet when he wasnt' training hard. Wonder if that had an adverse effect on him.
     
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  37. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    I wouldn't call it tanking, but I think he gives up at times against the top 4. He didn't yesterday, because Murray played so poorly and opened the door wide open for an upset. But, I've seen other beatdowns against the top guys where he just looks like he's thrown in the towel. He'll keep playing and chasing some balls down, but he's done. Of course, based on his clay successes, I still think he maintains a slight belief vs. Murray that he doesn't possess against the other three guys.
     
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  38. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    I think if Federer finally starts to fade this year, and Nadal somehow loses early, that Ferrer has a real shot against Murray, DelPo, Berdych, or Tsonga.
    I'd like to see him win one major, but I agree, I wouldn't bet on it.
     
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  39. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not hyping anybody. I'm just quoting what Murray said, though I agree with him!

    Who's saying otherwise?
     
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  40. wangs78

    wangs78 Hall of Fame

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    I do agree that Ferrer stopping play on match point to challenge the call was a risky and ill-advised move. Not sure what he was thinking. Not sure if that move warrants the stmt that he is not mentally strong though. Him breaking Murray in the 10th game of the 3rd set (when Murray was serving to win the match) was a clear sign of mental strength to me. I think in the end his cramping thigh had more to do with his loss.
     
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  41. Fedex

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  42. Crisstti

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    Agree. Murray was playing awful. When he got to playing more or less how he should have, the match went the way it was supposed to go.

    He doesn't win against the top 4 because he isn't as good as they are (except Murray on clay), not because he lacks believe. He just doesn't have something to really hurt them with.
     
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  43. Terenigma

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    Just look at Ferrer's reaction when Murray describes him as one of the best players in the world, he looks down and almost seems to shake his head like he doesnt agree. THAT is why he will always lose to the top 4 in big matches, he IS one of the best players in the world currently but he doesnt think so.

    I saw an interview where he basically said "i know im only 4th because Nadal has been injured" A guy who has been in the final of the WTF, the Semi final of 3 of the GS's (2 last year and already made 1 this year) effectively saying he thinks he doesnt belong there.

    Yeah i get that going into a match vs the top 4 the public always sees you as the underdog but you should take that advantage and let your oppenent soak up the pressure and just play your solid game. He has shown he can beat Murray/Nadal in the past and Whilst Federer's age is seing a noticable decline in his tennis ability, Ferrer actually seems to be in his prime.

    The guy needs a stern talk with a head doctor and he needs to cry out his issues so we can actually see the guy get into a GS final or maybe even win one before he fades away.
     
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  44. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    And Murray's career accomplishments are close to second tier than the elite.
     
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  45. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    I guess this is the new Murray bashing meme?


    If the worst you can say about Murray is that his career accomplishments aren't in the same league as Roger Federer and Rod Laver, then we've come a long way.
     
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  46. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    We are not talking about all time elite, just current era. It pains when every time people put Murray in the same league as Fedal and Novak, when what Murray has accomplished is close to Hewitt and Delpo.
     
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  47. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    Good post OP. Ferrer is interesting. He is one of the strongest players mentally until reaching the semis, and then he quickly becomes one of the weakest.
     
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  48. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    It really depends on the 'league' you're talking about though, doesn't it. If you're talking about the 'league of all time achievments' then Roger is in a league of his own in comparison to ALL players with the possible exception of Laver.


    If you're talking about the 'league of achievements in the last 10 years' then Roger is still in a league of his own in comparison to ALL current players - including Rafa and Nole.

    If you're talking about the 'league of achivements in the past 5 years' then Murray pisses all over Delpo and Hewitt.

    In your clamour to bash Murray, I don't think you've thought this one through.
     
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  49. Relinquis

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    Compare to this attitude... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGxawB9iPts

     
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  50. Fedex

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    You honestly think we give a toss that he'll never get close to all time greats such as Federer, Nadal and the like.
    He's the first Brit to win a slam in seventy odd years. He's broken the biggest bogey in British sporting history. And man did he do it in style.
    We don't give a flying fck if he never wins another thing again.
    Everything is icing on the cake form here on in matey.
    The ninth Masters title and future ones are extra good cause it pisses off haters even more and the excuses for his success get even more hysterical, desperate and funny.
     
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