David Ferrer vs Micheal Chang

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Loose Cannon, May 17, 2012.

  1. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Would you agree Agassi is a worse matchup for Chang too? Outside of the movement, Agassi is basically better than him in every area.
     
    #51
  2. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    the word worse is a comparative one ...

    agassi would win most of the times vs chang when playing well, but becker and sampras were worse matchups for chang than agassi was .....they could over-power him more easily ....
     
    #52
  3. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Becker was definitely a worse matchup for Chang than Agassi was.
     
    #53
  4. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    It depends how broad your definition of "top player" is. A big hitter who has won multiple slams, probably yes. A player like Ferrer himself (who has often been at or around #5 so could be labelled as such), Chang would normally beat even in good form.
     
    #54
  5. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Who was/is Micheal[sic] Chang?
     
    #55
  6. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Becker was 5-1 against Chang.
    Sampras was 12-8 versus Chang.
    Agassi was 15-7 against Chang.

    Interesting.
     
    #56
  7. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

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    which will have higher career prize winnings?
     
    #57
  8. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Boris Becker 5-1 Michael Chang
    1991 Brussels QF: Boris Becker def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-1)
    1991 French Open QF: Boris Becker def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    1994 Tokyo Outdoor SF: Michael Chang def. Boris Becker (7-6, 6-2)
    1995 World Championships F: Boris Becker def. Michael Chang (7-6, 6-0, 7-6)
    1996 Australian Open F: Boris Becker def. Michael Chang (6-2, 6-4, 2-6, 6-2)
    1996 Stuttgart Indoor SF: Boris Becker def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-3)

    Hardcourt: 1-1
    Clay: 1-0 to Becker
    Grass: 0-0
    Carpet: 3-0 to Becker
    In Majors: 2-0 to Becker


    Pete Sampras 12-8 Michael Chang
    1989 French Open R64: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (6-1, 6-1, 6-1)
    1989 Stratton Mountain R64: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (6-4, 6-4)
    1989 Los Angeles R32: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (7-6, 6-0)
    1990 Toronto SF: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (3-6, 7-6, 7-5)
    1990 Cincinnati R16: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (7-5, 6-4)
    1990 Grand Slam Cup SF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    1991 Paris Indoor SF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (2-6, 6-4, 6-3)
    1992 Miami QF: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (6-4, 7-6)
    1993 US Open QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-7, 7-6, 6-1, 6-1)
    1993 Grand Slam Cup QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (7-6, 6-3)
    1994 Tokyo Outdoor F: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-2)
    1994 Wimbledon QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-1, 6-3)
    1994 Grand Slam Cup QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-3)
    1995 Australian Open SF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    1995 World Championships SF: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (6-4, 6-4)
    1996 Memphis SF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-3, 6-2)
    1996 Hong Kong F: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-4, 3-6, 6-4)
    1996 US Open F: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)
    1998 Rome R16: Michael Chang def. Pete Sampras (6-2, 7-6)
    2001 Los Angeles R16: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (7-6, 7-6)

    Hardcourt: 7-5 to Sampras
    Clay: 2-0 to Chang
    Grass: 1-0 to Sampras
    Carpet: 4-1 to Sampras
    In Majors: 4-1 to Sampras


    Andre Agassi 15-7 Michael Chang
    1988 Forest Hills R16: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-2, 6-4)
    1988 US Open R16: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-3, 6-2)
    1990 French Open QF: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-1, 6-2, 4-6, 6-2)
    1990 Washington SF: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-3, 6-1)
    1990 Toronto QF: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (4-6, 7-5, 7-5)
    1992 Grand Slam Cup R16: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (6-4, 6-2)
    1993 Montreal R16: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (7-6, 6-3)
    1993 Cincinnati SF: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (7-5, 1-6, 7-5)
    1994 US Open R16: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-1, 6-7, 6-3, 3-6, 6-1)
    1994 World Championships RR: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-4)
    1995 San Jose F: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-2, 1-6, 6-3)
    1995 Atlanta F: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (6-2, 6-7, 6-4)
    1995 Cincinnati F: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-2)
    1996 Australian Open SF: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)
    1996 San Jose SF: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-2, 5-7, 6-4)
    1996 Indian Wells QF: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (6-7, 6-2, 6-1)
    1996 Cincinnati F: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (7-6, 6-4)
    1996 US Open SF: Michael Chang def. Andre Agassi (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
    1998 San Jose SF: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-4, 7-6)
    1999 Montreal R16: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-2, 7-5)
    2003 San Jose R16: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-2)
    2003 Miami R64: Andre Agassi def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-2)

    Hardcourt: 12-5 to Agassi
    Clay: 2-1 to Agassi
    Grass: 0-0
    Carpet: 1-1
    In Majors: 3-2 to Agassi


    Jim Courier 12-12 Michael Chang
    1989 Cincinnati R16: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-3, 6-3)
    1991 Cincinnati R16: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-2)
    1991 Grand Slam Cup R16: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-4, 6-2)
    1992 San Francisco F: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-3, 6-3)
    1992 Miami SF: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-2, 6-4)
    1992 Tokyo Outdoor SF: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (6-2, 6-3)
    1992 Hong Kong F: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-3)
    1992 World Championships RR: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-2)
    1993 Indian Wells SF: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-4)
    1993 Hong Kong SF: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (6-2, 6-3)
    1993 Rome SF: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (6-2, 6-7, 6-0)
    1993 World Championships RR: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-4, 6-0)
    1994 Philadelphia SF: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (7-6, 6-2)
    1995 San Jose SF: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (4-6, 7-6, 6-4)
    1995 Tokyo Outdoor SF: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (6-4, 7-5)
    1995 Hong Kong SF: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-4, 6-2)
    1995 Cincinnati QF: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (3-6, 7-6, 7-5)
    1995 US Open QF: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (7-6, 7-6, 7-5)
    1995 Paris Indoor QF: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (6-2, 7-6)
    1995 World Championships RR: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-2, 7-5)
    1996 Stuttgart Indoor R16: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (7-5, 6-2)
    1998 Orlando F: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (7-5, 3-6, 7-5)
    1998 Washington QF: Michael Chang def. Jim Courier (6-3, 6-4)
    1999 Memphis R32: Jim Courier def. Michael Chang (6-4, 7-6)

    Hardcourt: 8-7 to Courier
    Clay: 2-0 to Courier
    Grass: 0-0
    Carpet: 5-2 to Chang
    In Majors: 1-0 to Courier


    Thomas Muster 6-3 Michael Chang
    1990 Davis Cup SF: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (4-6, 6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
    1995 Indian Wells R16: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (6-1, 5-7, 7-6)
    1995 Rome QF: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (6-3, 6-2)
    1995 French Open F: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (7-5, 6-2, 6-4)
    1995 World Championships RR: Michael Chang def. Thomas Muster (4-6, 6-2, 6-3)
    1996 World Championships RR: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-3)
    1997 Indian Wells SF: Michael Chang def. Thomas Muster (6-1, 7-6)
    1997 Cincinnati SF: Thomas Muster def. Michael Chang (6-3, 4-6, 7-6)
    1999 Rome R64: Michael Chang def. Thomas Muster (7-6, 6-7, 6-4)

    Hardcourt: 2-1 to Muster
    Clay: 3-1 to Muster
    Grass: 0-0
    Carpet: 1-1
    In Majors: 1-0 to Muster
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
    #58
  9. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    According to the ATP website, Chang has $19,145,632 in prize money, while Ferrer currently has $13,728,702 in prize money.
     
    #59
  10. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    And multiply Chang's prize money by 2 due to inflation rate, thus 19,145,632*2 = $38,291,264. :D
    Chang is worlds above Ferrer, period. ;)
     
    #60
  11. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Not better than Ralston. He was a physical specimen and expected to be the next Gonzales or Kramer. His temper prevented him from being the best he could be.
     
    #61
  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    well done dude, infation is key.could we compare Borg and Fed?
     
    #62
  13. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    That would probably include someone like stich who was real good when in form ..... with the ability to take out becker on grass @ wimbledon, muster @ RG on clay and sampras indoors @ the YEC ...

    I wasn't talking about ferrer ....

    probably higher peak level - say like murray/nalbandian/mecir etc.., amongst the non slammers , would beat chang more often than not with both parties playing well .....
     
    #63
  14. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    we're talking about what happened in reality, not some supposed "imagined" talent ......

    roddick was also supposed to be the next sampras once upon a time ...:roll:

    oh and its not like tsonga/berdych/soderling don't hit the cover off the ball .....
     
    #64
  15. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    chang won the first 5 matches over sampras when sampras' game was still developing ... after that it was sampras almost all the way ... 12 out of the next 15 matches ...
     
    #65
  16. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    What about Stich? he is underrated here - as many all timers because of little knowledge of past tennis- but he had top class matherial and played well in all surfaces.

    he was a Vitas Gerulaitis, with a stronger mind and winning shots ( which made the difference )
     
    #66
  17. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    If prime Chang faced now Ferrer...I'm seeing Chang in five sets, and the fifth set probably equals Isner-Mahut. Those two are pretty dead even, although Chang may have a better forehand, and Ferrer might be in better shape, if that's possible
     
    #67
  18. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    How is Ferrer anywhere close to Chang?? I don't see Ferrer beating prime Lendl at French Open at 17 years old. Chang did.
     
    #68
  19. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Same style, although Ferrer might be in better shape, and Chang have a better forehand.

    Remember, styles make matches too.
     
    #69
  20. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    In reality, Ralston was more talented than Tsonga, Berdych or Soderling.
     
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  21. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Chang did have a better forehand, and he was faster, stronger and in at least as good of shape as Ferrer.
     
    #71
  22. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Chang is a better, more complete version of Ferrer. There is nothing Ferrer does better than Chang. End of story
     
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  23. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Someone asked McEnroe this question on comparing Chang and Ferrer during the Ferrer match against Murray yesterday. McEnroe replied by saying he thought Chang was a little faster and a little more powerful.
     
    #73
  24. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You once said Mac's opinion doesn't hold any water because he changes his mind every week. I don't see how all the sudden you value his opinion just because he had positive saying for Chang.
     
    #74
  25. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    PC1 only repeated Mac's opinion, he didn't endorse it or make any comment about the value of it.
     
    #75
  26. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    That was just for information.
     
    #76
  27. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    You are correct.
     
    #77
  28. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    Chang Chang and more Chang, and did I forget Chang
     
    #78
  29. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Um... Serve: hello.

    Chang's serve was nothing near as good as Ferrer's.

    (Yes, I have seen both play live -actually at the tournament- each about a dozen times.)
     
    #79
  30. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    ye, that's like Hewitt's early record over Fed, kind of meaningless in the end.

    I do think Ferrer has a much better serve than Chang ever did, and otherwise there isn't much in it. People have mentioned fitness but that's probably because of all the footage of Chang looking half dead at the French Open. Given how many miles he had run at that point, I reckon ANYONE would have looked like that!
     
    #80
  31. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    In America, a significant percentage of the people cannot spell lose correctly, and I think that is quite a bit easier than Michael. It has to do with the lowering of standards in our schools over the decades.
     
    #81
  32. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    loose the attitude, ClarkC!

    (annoying, isn't it?)
     
    #82
  33. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Timbo, grate poast!

    Clark C....
    Sew ya think were loosing our egde, huh? Dat's wyy weave got spelcheck, man.
    Well, i dun dout you, scro, I'll jus have to consult the study dun by the good fokes at St. God's Mumoryal Univercity and git bach two ewe.
     
    #83
  34. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    ROFL... Chang all day every day.. The only thing Ferrer has on Chang is being able to throw back a few cartons of cigarettes
     
    #84
  35. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    Why don't you Americans do to "Michael" what you've done with colour, through, behaviour and neighbour, not to mention all the other words that my spell-checker keeps "catching" and forcing me to misspell :D :D
     
    #85
  36. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Chang is more like Andy Murray than David Ferrer, both in playing style and level.
     
    #86
  37. krz

    krz Professional

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    Have you seen Chang's legs?

    Those tree trunks would crush Ferrer.
     
    #87
  38. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    old people are funny.

    I have actually watched them both live more than once. Ferrer has more weight of shot off both sides and a bigger serve. Sorry, but that's just how it is.
     
    #88
  39. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    Gerulaitis won AO + was finalist in FO + was finalist in USO + was SF in Wimbledon + was finalist in the Masters. Bigger, bigger, bigger than Murray !
     
    #89
  40. NonP

    NonP Professional

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    This seems to be a common theme on this thread. For the record, I've seen dozens of both players' matches and studied the service stats closely, and there's no question Chang could and did serve as big as Ferrer. Where Ferrer does have the edge is in the percentages (63% as opposed to Chang's 56% for their respective careers), but then this is where today's racquets have helped. (Here let me remind everyone that we're talking just averages here. Whatever gains in top-end speeds from racquets are marginal at best.) That said, I'd still give the serve to Ferrer, as the 7% gap is indeed rather significant.

    Agree with those who said that otherwise Chang was a slightly superior version of Ferrer. Kinda like Sampras vs. Becker.
     
    #90
  41. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    MIKEL

    Done.
    I will call Bill Gates' people. If I can git thru, aisle let them no.
     
    #91
  42. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    He also won WCT Dallas in 1978, and two Italian Opens (1977 and 1979).
     
    #92
  43. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    the AO field was very weak those days. nowhere near a full major at all .....

    murray is a two time AO finalist+made a final at USO+multiple semis of wimbledon+semis of french .... won multiple master series events ....

    so no, gerulatis wasn't bigger than murray ...... you can continue to 'live' in the 'vilas era' , not the rest of us ....
     
    #93
  44. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    yeah chang was better relatively but ferrer is a no doubt top5 player in the year 2012 while chang was a little better 20 years ago.

    do you really think a player from 20 years ago could compete with any top player of the year 2012? tennis has evolved a lot I don't think players of the early 90s can keep up with players of the 2000s and 2010s.

    chang was better of course but borg was also better than davydenko or roddick. doesn't mean he would have beat him if put in a time machine :D.
     
    #94
  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ...and he also won the much coveted WCT title...
     
    #95
  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I can agree both have very similar records.The difference is that, Lendl , Vilas, Gerulaitis were the nº 4 ranked players behind the big 3.Now, behind today´s big 3, there is always and only the scotch guy, so a big proof of the difference of competitiveness as far as eras are concerned.
     
    #96
  47. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I agree, and if Murray wins just 1 major I would rank him over Vilas too, or atleast on par. Vilas won only 1 real major, the 1977 U.S Open. That is it. He certainly wont nowhere near as many even Masters level tournaments vs the best players as Murray has, although he did win the WTF over a strong field once which Murray is yet to do.

    As for Gerulatis, Murray is already above him. Good player but lost double digit matches in a row to the Connors and Borg's of the day. 0 real majors.
     
    #97
  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Once again, dumbo abmk tries to downgrade Laver´s GS...to no avail, since, we all know by now that Federer, with much weaker opposition, will never win it once...forget about twice...or three times...
     
    #98
  49. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Vilas won 4 majors, and 62 career titles. He also holds the record for consecutive matches won in the open era.
     
    #99
  50. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Was interesting to hear Todd Woodbridge in commentary yesterday during the Ferrer/Del Potro match:

    "Yes, Ferrer is very like a Michael Chang, isn't he? Much heavier off the ground and a bigger serve, of course, but the same 'get everything back with interest and then attack you' approach"

    What would he know, though? :)
     

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