Davis Cup Final 2011 - This Weekend in Seville

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Love Game, Nov 29, 2011.

?

... and the 2011 DC Champions Will Be . . .

Poll closed Dec 2, 2011.
  1. Spain in 3

    3.7%
  2. Spain in 4

    48.1%
  3. Spain in 5

    7.4%
  4. Argentina in 3

    7.4%
  5. Argentina in 4

    3.7%
  6. Argentina in 5

    29.6%
  1. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

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    #1
  2. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

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    This will be very ineresting with Nadal not having a good WTF and Monaco playing very well. I say this goes to the fifth rubber, and can go either way.
     
    #2
  3. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal has lost just one best-of-5 sets match on clay in his life.

    I'd say either 3-2 or 4-1 Spain. I'll go for 4-1 Spain.
     
    #3
  4. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

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    Spain wins 4-1
     
    #4
  5. iriraz

    iriraz Hall of Fame

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    Both Nadal and Ferrer have lost 0 matches combined on clay in the Davis Cup throughout their careers which says it all.Tough to bet on the road team,regardless who it is.
     
    #5
  6. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    But that was in the past. Can you honestly say that Nadal is the same player now that he was then?
     
    #6
  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal has lost one best-of-5 sets match on clay in his life, and that was one of the biggest upsets in tennis history (Soderling at the 2009 French Open). Nadal has won every other best-of-5 sets clay-court match he's ever played, no matter what his form elsewhere. In 2009, he was in awful form at the WTF, yet beat Berdych in straight sets in the Davis Cup final on clay as Spain cruised to a 5-0 win.
     
    #7
  8. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I think he's in even worse shape now than in 2009. I am not convinced he is going to do well this weekend no matter how many 5 set clay matches he has lost. He's just such a mess right now,and that coupled with the match-up issue between he and Delpo,I think he might just be due for his second 5 set loss on clay.
     
    #8
  9. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Of course Nadal will win easily, just like he did in the DC semifinal even though he must have been totally exhausted and mentally broken from the crazy USO final. I know it, you know it, and anyone with any sort of tennis knowledge knows it. But then we have Clarky21...
     
    #9
  10. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. Also it is indoors. lol Rafa hates indoors. It's complicated as Toni says.
     
    #10
  11. Kaz00

    Kaz00 Semi-Pro

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    Clay has magical healing abilities. Nadal is a warrior and the Clay is a cleric works perfect.
     
    #11
  12. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    I don't know if it says everything.

    Lead Spanish singles players Rafa and Ferru are tired; neither D-Nal or JMDP has to deal with WTFatigue.

    Also, I'll bet the Argentinians are still smarting from being beaten at home by the Spaniards in 2008 CD final. So we will have to see.

    I don't even know which way to bet (though I hope the Spaniards don't get beat at home, and I know Alberto Costa thinks the same -- he was exhorting the home crowd in interviews to come out and support. Wish I was there).
     
    #12
  13. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Spain will win b/c they have the home court advantage.

    I'm rooting for Argentina b/c last time the Spaniards played against the USA, they complain about the surface and demand for a change. They only think for themselves.
     
    #13
  14. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Viva Espana!
     
    #14
  15. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    He was also a mess in early 2010 until Monte came along. Then he was magically healed. Expect the same when he gets to his beloved clay.:)
    He took care of Tsonga/Gasquet easily in the last DC matches, hardly breaking a sweat.
    And furthermore, Spain rules clay. Argentina has no in-form players. I'm not counting Monaco because he has no weapons and is no threat on the grand stage. See what Federer did to Mr.In-Form Monaco at the USO? That was an embarrasment. Del Potro has no form coming in, he's done little to prepare. Nalbandian is a farce now who isn't big-match tough at all and no physical conditioning. And who cares about Chela? :lol:
    Spain should tear Argentina apart on clay. Nadal alone could take care of the lot.
     
    #15
  16. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Absolutely. Nadal is straights 95% probability. There is a 5% chance he might lose 1 set in two matches
     
    #16
  17. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Could be interesting, hope it goes to 5 but think Spain in 4
     
    #17
  18. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Another interesting fact. Spain have not lost a Davis Cup tie in Spain since a Kuerten masterclass for Brazil against Corretja and Moya in 1999.
     
    #18
  19. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Must've been a pretty big deal when Soderling took down Spain's 2 strongest clay courters back to back in Ferrer and Nadal in Roland Garros 2009.
     
    #19
  20. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

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    http://www.daviscup.com/en/results/tie/details.aspx?tieId=100016227
     
    #20
  21. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    I am exactly to the date 3 years older than chela
     
    #21
  22. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    I was at that match as well as the one Pico played before it.

    First, Roger was in God Mode (and / or its variant, Get Done Before It Rains Mode), with his focus galvanized. Further, that's his surface; Pico has surprised before on clay.

    Finally, did you see the 3R? It felt like it went on for hours, so Pico used all his gas against Tommy and had nothing left for Roger. It's not a fair comparison, since he's coming in here fresh, and also with a completely different motivation.

    Since the Spaniards themselves say Argentina's their toughest competition on clay, maybe you could give them a little credit too ...?

    Also, again, consider that Rafa and Ferru have WTFatigue. They have to overcome that. I think their camaraderie and team spirit is going to help them fight through, but I really don't think it's going to be a walk in the park.
     
    #22
  23. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    No question that Nadal will win and Spain will win. When Nadal plays the DC on clay his form everywhere else is irrelevant. It is like the DC on clay is his own little universe. If Nadal loses this DC on clay which is clearly his best surface he really is in trouble.
     
    #23
  24. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    Y'all really need to stop with the doomsday. Rafa is not the only one playing. He cannot win or lose DC by himself.

    Let's do it this way -- if he played first and won, the Double Fs lost, and Ferru played twice and lost, Rafa could still win but the team would still lose.

    What's with the sudden scrapping of all critical thinking?

    :shock:
    :roll:
     
    #24
  25. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal loses to Del Potro
    Ferrer beats Monaco
    Spanish Doubles lose
    Nadal beats Monaco
    Ferrer Loses to Del Potro. Nadal losing to Del Potro on clay is the big story.
     
    #25
  26. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    It was. I was in Malaga when it happened. Disbelief was the feeling when Rafa lost.
     
    #26
  27. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    I hope for DP to do well .. Hope you are right .
     
    #27
  28. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've got my doubts about the second one there, cuz just about a month ago Monaco beat Ferrer in his own backyard, Valencia (where david is in partnership with JCFerrero as co-owners of the tournament), in the semifinal ... he showed great form that week, and he wouldn't have any more of a problem with a 5-setter than Ferru would.

    Monaco's new coaches, Jose Clavet and Mariano Zabaleta, seem to be having an excellent effect on the talented (IMO) Argentine, whose favorite surface just happens to be clay, which is where he's won his only titles ... add to that the WTF effect on Ferru vs. Pico being fresh ...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
    #28
  29. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Day 1:
    Nadal beats Monaco
    Ferrer loses to Del Potro

    Day 2:
    Spanish Doubles lose

    Day 3:
    Nadal beats Del Potro
    Nalbandian beats Ferrer

    Argentina wins 3-2. Wishful thinking, I know, but it could happen.
     
    #29
  30. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    That was the saddest day in human history. Please don't keep reminding us of it.
     
    #30
  31. Eternity

    Eternity Semi-Pro

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    Me too . Argentina should be very determined to get their 1st DC tiltle so I'll assume they won't give Spain an easy time.

    Argentina have a great shot at the doubles rubber but I have a hard time seeing them get the required singles pts. Rafa and Ferrer are both reliable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
    #31
  32. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    #32
  33. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal looks a bit pale on both pics.
     
    #33
  34. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    spain has hot the top 3 left handers in the world.
     
    #34
  35. Strobe Lights

    Strobe Lights Semi-Pro

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    Anything other than a Spain victory would be a truly incredible upset.

    Nadal is 14-0 on clay in Davis Cup and is 66-1 (think that's correct) in best-of-5-set clay matches.

    Ferrer is 11-0 on clay in Davis Cup.

    So Ferrer losing on clay, especially in Spain, is highly unlikely. Nadal losing would be almost unbelievable.

    No matter what happens in the doubles, Spain will definitely win 3 of the singles. Del Potro has a slim chance against Ferrer, only if he can bring his top game, which we haven't seen over 5 sets since 2009.

    I don't know enough about the doubles abilities of the 4 guys playing to really be able to predict it, but I'll give the Argies a win to be nice.

    Spain 4-1 Argentina.
     
    #35
  36. SAFINATORZ

    SAFINATORZ Hall of Fame

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    Might as well hand the trophy to spain, monaco's got no shot at beating nadal. Atleast it would've been a good match between nadal and nalbandian. David's DC singles record speaks for itself!! monaco sux!
     
    #36
  37. iriraz

    iriraz Hall of Fame

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    Nalbandian probably can`t play 3 straight days,so best shot they have is put Nalbandian in the doubles and on the last day.Even so,the chances for an upset are slim.
     
    #37
  38. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Why doesn't he? Pico has been playing great while Nadal has been a mess. Pico has a good chance at the upset here,as does Delpo on Sunday.
     
    #38
  39. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    You're out of your mind dude! :lol: Monaco is a semi-talented scrub who could never make a dent on any player in the top 3. And Nadal's not a mess. This is clay court now in a best of 5 Davis Cup, not indoors where Nadal sucks donkey b*lls! :) The transformation of Nadal from indoor clown to Clay God will be fully apparent shortly. Breadsticks or bagels await Monaco! Those crazy topspin forehands are gonna be bouncing over Monaco's head to the backhand side. It will be doom and gloom for Argentina.
     
    #39
  40. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Monaco has no chance of an upset (or very little chance.)

    Nadal has been a mess off clay. This is on clay at DC in Spain.

    Spain will NOT lose given these factors. Come on Clarky! :???:
     
    #40
  41. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    He's been a mess on clay as well. He struggled all the way through the cc season losing sets to 143rd ranked Paulo Lorenzi,and could have lost that match in straights. I guess it's like I said before; I just have no faith in Nadal anymore no matter the surface. His play has been so disappointing this year,and he has played below par for so long that I can't help but feel that way. I guess I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to his DC performances,which I have VERY low expecations for I can tell you that much.
     
    #41
  42. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    I had a premonition last night. I will boldly predict that Spain will win this davis cup final.
     
    #42
  43. celoft

    celoft Guest

    Spain in 4.
     
    #43
  44. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

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    not the best singles draw for argentina ... woulda been better the other way around imo :eek:

    [​IMG]
     
    #44
  45. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    so, Juan M is better singles player than Nalbandian on red clay, i take it ?
     
    #45
  46. Eternity

    Eternity Semi-Pro

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    Do you mean you think Delpo should be playing Rafa first up? They don't have a choice, the no1 players for each country play each other in the fourth rubber (not the first).

    Is Argentina planning on swapping Monaco out for Nalby if there's a live 5th rubber? Monaco actually has a good record against Ferrer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
    #46
  47. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

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    that would be a "YES" :p

    NALBANDIAN on clay 2007 to 2011 = 39-20 (29%)

    MONACO on clay 2007 to 2011 = 112-54 (56%)
     
    #47
  48. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

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    hmmm this brings up the question of whether the initial singles rubbers are determined by "the luck of the draw" rather than assignment by the team captains ... or already predetermined by, as you mention, the top players playing in the fourth rubber ... cuz why would that be? considering that it's possible for the 4th and 5th rubbers to be "dead rubbers" :???:

    yes ... that's why I thot it m/b better for monaco to play ferrer in the second rubber, rather than nadal in the first ... especially since pico just beat ferru about a month ago in valencia :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
    #48
  49. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know what your percentages mean.

    39-20 is a 66.1%
    112-54 is a 67.5%
     
    #49
  50. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    #1 vs #2 and #2 vs #1 first day. That can't be changed. What can be changed (and that's why they have a draw ceremony) is the order of WHO PLAYS first.

    This time, the draw said Nadal vs. Monaco first, instead of Ferrer vs. Del Potro.

    Now, regarding to "luck of the draw", the only thing that can be altered is WHO plays #1 and #2, and that's only based on ranking. If Del Potro is injured and couldn't play, then Monaco should play #1 singles as he's the highest ranked player, and either Chela, Nalbandian or Schwank could play #2 singles.

    Now, let's say Del Potro cannot play on day 3, Nadal should play against Argentina's #1, but it can't be Monaco (because he already played Nadal), so it should be either Chela or Nalbandian (but never Schwank), and the #2 should be the guy ranked below the #1 (if Chela is #1, Nalbandian or Schwank could be #2, but if Nalbandian is #1, Chela couldn't be #2)

    Hope that's clear :)
     
    #50

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