Death by pusher?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by HughJars, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. HughJars

    HughJars Banned

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    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
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  2. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    French "Seconde série". The best ranked is the one ranked 2/6 which equals roughly 5.5 or a bit higher. 15/1 is the lower ranking here, which roughly equals 4.5 or a bit higher. Both are hitting below their rankings "standards" IMO (ripping shots here and there), but we're largely above mere "pushing" here.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
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  3. Sim

    Sim Semi-Pro

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    Too many errors off easy shots. It looks more like 4.5. Definitely not a 5.5 for sure.

    The retriever's serve is so soft, and the other guys dumps so many returns into the net.
     
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  4. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Now, Christophe is normally a far better player than what he displays on that video. You should check his other videos. EDIT: I'd say in fact that the 2/6 is likely a junkballer or a counter puncher. You can't feed off his pace because he gives none, and when you give pace you're out or countered. He puts the ball where he wants with the spin he wants and accelerates when he needs to. Soft hands, better footwork and anticipation. Not a really good serve though. The difference of level is noticeable between the two.

    EDIT2: Notice that Christophe is now ranked 5/6, which roughly equals 5.0.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
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  5. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    That is one of the better pushers I have seen. I'd classify him as junk baller though because he uses alot of spin but most of the time very little pace.

    Christoper is a good player too - but he needs to do more with that serve. Not that I could dominate it either - but at his level he need to attack it more.
     
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  6. RockChalkOhio

    RockChalkOhio New User

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    I'd say they are about 3.7...maybe 4.2 tops. Dudes are hitting a lot of really loose shots in the net, wide, long. Nice headband bra.
     
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  7. HughJars

    HughJars Banned

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    ...............................
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
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  8. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Red Shirt/Jacques is using textbook shot selection and court positioning and has smooth, steady strokes appropriate for a given situation.

    White Shirt/Christophe is all over the place taking shots regardless of court positions or ball quality and has fairly erratic strokes.

    The result makes sense and I wouldn't call it pushing. It's good tennis versus bad tennis.
     
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  9. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    The one guy might be 4.0-4.5, but the other is a very weak 4.0 or less.
     
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  10. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Wonder why people try to guess the ratings when we know the rating to begin with... :lol:
     
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  11. Attila_the_gorilla

    Attila_the_gorilla Professional

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    Enjoyed their videos, the so-called pusher is a very good player, has tremendous touch, timing, anticipation and movement. He has a fluid but slow, controlled swing, which minimizes unforced errors. Probably has a more powerful racket to make up for the lack of racket head speed. He wins by knowing his game and playing within his limits.

    The other guy plays with a lot of effort for little reward. Great serve but fluffs up the volleys. Goes for too much on groundstrokes, too impatient. Needs to play within himself more.

    Out of the two, the latter's style of play has more potential cos it gives him more chance to control points. But he needs to get more consistent and patient.
     
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  12. HughJars

    HughJars Banned

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    Tell me about it :rolleyes:
     
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  13. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    That was a lot of fun. The guy in red isn't a pusher - he showed this in the last game of the match. He's also very, very fast. Look at his calf muscles. I got the feeling that he was playing efficiently for most of the match - basically working on winning without expending more energy than he needed to.
     
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  14. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    They want to show publicly that they have a great sense of exaggeration. Apparently, there are things you aren't supposed to miss when you're good, even if the truth is that skill only makes mistakes less likely.

    Look at how much they err when accessing their rating: I mean, it's not just .5 away, it's a full NRTP point or more. If you take a genuine 7.0 (touring pro) and err that much, you get a 5.5, which basically means their sense of game quality is that you need to hit like a touring pro to play 5.5 tennis... Next thing you know, they'll look at 4.0's rallying and, while laughing, they'll tell you that they are 2.0 beginners.
     
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  15. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    A pusher would wait, strictly wait, for a mistake, but he's going for winners at times and he's got some great replies here and there. I would venture into saying he's a counter puncher because he never pulls the trigger until you give him a clear opening.
     
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  16. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Official ratings aren't always accurate. I'm a 3.5C but everyone tells me I'm not a 3.5. I know guys that are 4.5 but they are really just decent 4.0's

    I played a match yesterday and lost 3-6,3-6. My opponent was ranked as a 4.5 and I am ranked as a 3.5. Realistically he's probably a good 4.0 and I'm a lower end 4.0
     
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  17. HughJars

    HughJars Banned

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    If official ratings arent a measure of how good you are then what is? What your mum reckons? Ratings are given based on match performances am I right? Then what could possibly measure you as a player than hpw you perform against others?

    Its like saying "they say water is wet, but I reckon its dry, so therefore its dry".

    Your rating is 3.5C. Therefore youre a 3.5C!!!! Suck it up. Simplezzz!
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
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  18. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Are you that naïve ? Ratings aren't perfect. They can be manipulated. Some people even get bumped up because their opponents are managing their ratings and throw the match. Also USTA ratings only change once a year(for most people) and only if you play spring league in most places.

    I'm fairly sure that my own dynamic rating is in the 4.0 range after a 25-3 season but that wont change until ratings come out at the end of the year.
     
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  19. NJ1

    NJ1 Professional

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    "Death by Pusher" should actually be renamed "Assisted Suicide."
     
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  20. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Except it ain't how French rankings work. In France, you ranking is determined by your number of victories, the ranking of the people you beat and their evolution in the year. Then your defeats and the ranking of the players who defeated you. Even your tournament results don't matter that much. The highest ranking you can attain is the one of the best ranked player you beat + a couple of ranking points.
    If you tank the end season in France, you'll loose rankings really bad, because it will be taken in account to calculate your ranking. Especially if your opponent is far below you in rankings. You have to have enough points to hold your ranking to even hope having a better ranking next time. I lack the translation skills and willpower to describe you exactly how it works, especially in a different system with a different counting method.

    Tl; Dr: In France, you have to earn every single bit of your ranking. Period.
     
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  21. dunlop_fort_knox

    dunlop_fort_knox Semi-Pro

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    pushers will inherit the earth. after they haven't beaten all the guys with APDs.
     
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  22. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    The ITN chart is pretty meaningless because its based on self-rate standards and generic descriptions, rather than 'real world' levels.

    Neither of the guys in the videos are remotely close to 5.5.
     
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  23. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Once again, you can't self rate in France.
     
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  24. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    That guy in red didn't look like a pusher at all. He was doing what was working. The other guy played some nice shots but wasn't consistent enough. He couldn't finish off the ball and virtully kept beating himself. Yes, putting the ball back in play was all that the guy in red needed to do.
     
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  25. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Once again, it doesn't matter ;-)

    Ratings systems are only relevant to people in that system who use them. Trying to cross compare different systems from across the world is a pointless exercise because each country/system assesses players differently.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
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  26. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    ^Since I'm French and understand the system, I'd rather believe their ratings on that once. Because you're content with putting balls in play because your opponent is self destructing on the other side doesn't mean you're not 5.5. It means you have a tennis brain. Beautiful shots =! winning. And yes, 5.0 roughly equals "seconde série", so here the ITF chart is correct. Maybe not always, but in this case yes. Ranking deserved IMO, he plays intelligently and goes for it only when he has a clear chance. You can watch the other videos on the channel if you want to have a better idea. Look at the videos where he still is ranked 15/1. If it ain't minimum 4.5, I don't know in what kind of league you're playing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
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  27. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    As often happens, the person keeping the ball deep wins.

    The guy in the red tends to hit loopier and with less pace but almost everything lands halfway between the service line and baseline or deeper.

    The guy in white is hitting harder and with less net clearance but most of the shots land short of the service line (when he's not hitting it out or in the net).

    It is the same old story - the guy in red isn't crushing the ball so he is a "pusher" to many here. Some people just never learn, hitting hard short balls that sit up or hitting hard without control won't beat a solid player that can keep the ball deep.
     
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  28. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    Ball placement thrumps pace any day.
     
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