Dementieva's serve

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TwistServe, Jun 3, 2004.

  1. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Are her first and second serves slices? Toss seems to be always to the right so she can't possible kick those right?
     
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  2. roundiesee

    roundiesee Hall of Fame

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    It's strange looking serve I must say, but really quite effective in a way. First and second serves look identical. Mauresmo had a hell of a time trying to return those "spinny" serves. She must have just changed it; can't recall her having a serve like that before.
     
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  3. andirez

    andirez Rookie

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    I was at Roland Garros yesterday and saw Dementieva in action agains Suarez. Her serve (under pressure) was extremely unstable and not effective at all. Her second serve speeds always ended up around 100 km/h and she double faulted very often. I'd expect more from a pro actually and was really disappointed that women's tennis is at such a low level (I knew this already, but it struck me once again yesterday). The second set was all about unforced errors, okay you had the casual winner, but apart from that the quality was very low if you ask me.

    Good thing I went to see the semi-final doubles (with Malisse and Rochus) instead of Capriati vs Miskina, that could not have been good if the end score was 6-2 6-2.
     
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  4. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    and to boot, she desnt even seem to be able to direct the 2nd serve to the opponents backhand (unless they are lefty). amazing to me they dont jump on that thing or return it from like 3 feet behind the service line and come to net as slowly as it is struck. you have many options w. a serve like that besides hit it right back to her. standing 3' behind the service line to return would put even more pressure on her 2nd serve. i've used that tactic alot in matches and it can be very efective. i understand she has a much better 2nd serve in practice, so clearly she has some sort of mental thing going on out there. Ed
     
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  5. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Well my girl Elena has a great serve imo.

    She has a really wide toss which gives her loads of slice spin. She will use it to kick Myskina's ***!

    She more than makes up for it with her huge groundies and great looks.

    I find it really exciting to watch her for the the 2 reasons stated above and for the inconsistency of her serve. You never know what will happen!

    Come on Elena!!!

    -Liam
     
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  6. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    Let's assume the average 1st and 2nd serve speeds quoted on the Roland Garros website are correct. If you look at the numbers, shown below for 1st and 2nd serves in kmh and mph, Dementieva's serves are not much slower than 3 of the 4 men's semi-finalists. Considering the men are much stronger, Dementieva's serves are not as 'pathetic' as you boys think.

    Nalbandian
    1st kmh-mph : 153-95
    2nd kmh-mph : 132-82

    Gaudio
    1st kmh-mph : 158-98
    2nd kmh-mph : 134-83

    Henman
    1st kmh-mph : 176-109
    2nd kmh-mph : 142-88

    Coria
    1st kmh-mph : 156-97
    2nd kmh-mph : 137-85

    Dementieva
    1st kmh-mph : 148-92
    2nd kmh-mph : 118-73

    Dementieva's average 1st serve speed is within 10mph of David, Gaston and Coria.


    Some of you are 'pathetic'.
     
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  7. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    I like the way you say "some". I am all for her serve and think that it's better than the men's as she has more spin on it, and as the stats say, the power isn't down on the blokes by much either.

    Great player, I really want her to win.

    -Liam
     
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  8. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Somehow i don't beleive Nalbandian's first serves are running 95mph.. Normally those are second serves speeds (80-90).. But anyway ESPN showed a chart of all elena's serves.. They all go to forehand.. The weakness is not that its slow, but that its predictable.
     
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  9. Dranguyengon

    Dranguyengon New User

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    I think the clay is the equalizer on this thing. Clay seems to slow down everyones serve just enough so that it evens it out.
     
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  10. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    saw her play live and her 2nd serve is pathetic by most anyones' standards in placement and speed and consistency. AAAAAA you pay way too much attention to what you read and calling posters pathetic isnt very cool at all..likewise, look at the match stats for winners and UE's if you will..many of them are way off and well noticed and reported on this board. ed
     
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  11. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    and also the 2nd serves of the men are gonna be much less speedwise on the slow red clay..they are hitting alot more spin and kick on the dirt which really takes forward work away from the ball. she is just throwing up quackers for 2nds and none of the women are doing much about it..82mph with alot of kick is way diff than 72 without the kick. ..this also assuming these stats to be anywhere close to reality. bah. ed
     
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  12. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    andirez was at her match and says <snip> I was at Roland Garros yesterday and saw Dementieva in action agains Suarez. Her serve (under pressure) was extremely unstable and not effective at all. Her second serve speeds always ended up around 100 km/h and she double faulted very often <end snip>
    i would buy that 60mph is more like it for her 2nds. I would consider that attackable. it is alo what i saw pedwise when i saw her play at the tourney here. ed
     
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  13. rafael

    rafael Rookie

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    Those serve speeds are believable. None of the men mentioned were going for big booming serves, the court speed would dull them. Rather they were going for heavy topspin/kickserves. So while their serve speeds may be similar to Dementieva's serve, I highly doubt that she is putting as much spin on her balls.
     
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  14. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    Service speeds are measured by a machine and more importantly are non-subjective readings.

    FEs and UEs are subjective evaluations determined by the stat collectors. To a certain extent FEs and UEs are opinion.

    You can't dismiss average serve speeds like FEs and UEs stats.

    The speeds quoted were average speeds.

    NoBadMojo, I am not a cool person so I will write what I like. When somebody writes 'some people', you decide whether it applies to you.

    An unpredictable serve is potentially an effective one because it's more difficult for the receiver to gain rhythm on their returns. Due to flaws in her technique, her serve could go almost anywhere which makes it 'difficult' to read.

    However much clay slows down the serve, when Dementieva serves the ball would need to leave her racquet at similar speeds to the other 3 guys to register a similar average 1st serve speed.
     
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  15. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    AAAA..i dont care who your insults apply to, even if they were meant for me. But insults like that arent gonna get you very far in life thats for sure. Since you lacked courage to say who the insults apply to even whilst hiding behind your keyboard, then that is another issue you have as well. In case you arent aware in your infinite wisdom and since you must have actually returned her serves to know what you know, rapidly spinning balls travel through the air much much slower than balls struck more flat and the speed guns measure the speed before the ball even hits the court....the court surface has nothing to do w. the equation other than to dictate what type of serve they do. Guys are serving w. alot more spin on the red clay...are you with me here? I also know one of the other pros down here that worked out with her and he and i have discussd this very same thing and he agrees with me. ..but you are sure welcome to believe what ever very indirect information you wish. also i would say that this converasation has been mostly about her second serve. Her 2nd serve is very very slow, and always goes to the forehand. I would say that is attackable..that was my only point. Ed
     
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  16. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    NoBadMojo, Even her second serve is not much slower than 3 of the 4 guys I used as examples for comparison.

    You make it sound like her 2nd serve is so easy to attack. If so why don't her opponents cheat to the forehand side when facing second serves if the direction is so so obvious? After all the 2nd serve always goes to the same side. Could it be that the slice she puts on the ball always makes it swing wide different amounts on each 2nd serve?

    Is the pro you refer to male or female? If the pro is male have you accounted for gender differences? I doubt it.
     
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  17. C_Urala

    C_Urala Semi-Pro

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    As far as I remember she won the match point against Davenport at a 2nd serve down the T. And It was almost an ace. I may be wrong about the match point, but she definitely won a game with that.

    More than women?

    It's very probable but do you have any proof?
     
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  18. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    It's pretty obvious.. Look at the girls version of a kick serve and than look at the men's version.. Especially on the ad side.

    Also look at this study done on the women's spin serves: http://advancedtennis.com/results/servewomen.htm

    and compare that to the mens's:
    http://advancedtennis.com/results/servemen.htm
     
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  19. C_Urala

    C_Urala Semi-Pro

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    Well, thanks. I was aware of the site but thought it shows only men's serves.

    From what I see, the men's second serves DO have more spin, but the averaged rates differ only by a factor of 1.4. I think that it's very possible that Dementieva's serve has men's amount of spin at the expense of speed. It has to be a reason why this serve is not killed each time, while it might look like one of a 12 yo kid.
     
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  20. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    the reason is that women's pro tennis is pretty much one dimensional for the most part (other than hardenne and mauresmo and maybe somene else can come up w. another name or two). it's just <mostly> baseline whacking. . they play low risk tennis and dont have the diversity to mix up their service returns. they dont know how to take advantage of her quacker 2nd serve. i dont think service returns are practiced nearly enough at most levels. i know i spend some time teaching service returns, but alot of the other pro's dont..its a huge part of the game that doesnt get enough attention <for the most part> ed
     
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  21. Will

    Will New User

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  22. Will

    Will New User

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    She aced Myskina
     
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  23. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Well you know I like Dementieva.

    She did serve lots of double faults today. I think she has the greatest slice serve in the game though.

    And we know she has had a really bad problem with her right shoulder when she was younger.

    I just hope she can get over today and come back well at Wimbly.

    Even though she can't serve she will still be my Number 1!!!!

    -Liam
     
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  24. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    One 2nd serve the whole match to the BH, no 1st serves to the BH. No wonder she thought her 2nd serve looked like a dropshot to Serena.
     
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  25. C_Urala

    C_Urala Semi-Pro

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    If Mauresmo is not one dimensional, she should has beat Elena.
    I think it's not this. It's mental.
    In the men's final, in the beginning of the 5th set, Coria served almost underarmed. And Gaudio did have some troubles on return. And when in the end Coria served usually, Gaudio's returns were o'k. I think that women have problems when returning her serve because it's unusual. Not good for her.
     
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  26. fjgarciap

    fjgarciap Rookie

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    You got it!
     
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  27. Stinkdyr

    Stinkdyr Professional

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    Ok, you force me to post. Here is the J Lo down on Demented-eva's serve. It is what I call a Brazilian Slice. When I was a punk in high school, we had visiting jr. players up from Brazil practicing with our team. This one dude, serves up the combo side and underspin sliceroooooni that we all laughed at.....at first. Since then, I began using it on occasion......just once in awhile. I gotta tellya, it skids and wins me many free points. The key is to use it sparingly.
     
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  28. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, one of the kids on our tennis team does that once in a while. I've played with him plenty, I'm used to it, but it throws off a lot of people that haven't seen it before.
     
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