Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Ross K, Sep 11, 2010.
Fed, what happened to Buckethead?
Not sure, he was a good source for Yonex info...
I feel he may have run into this:
regrets :cry: wonder why?
Sometimes bad things happen to people in the other parts of the forum. Lol.
... there are only people in bad parts of the forum, sometimes other things happen.....
sorry to hijack a thread AGAIN! but i see there are alot of people that are playing with a babolat pure drive, aero pro drive and other very stiff rackets.. while some complains how it kills their arms..
what exactly sets these ppl apart? is it the way they play/hit the ball?
the reason i'm asking is that my friend recently had a tennis elbow and everytime he plays he says he is in pain (he got em from playing with microgel extreme.. and then he switched to o3 tour and still having the same problem, eventhough he never rested his elbow).. where as me, i never had any elbow problems with any racquets at all.. so my question is that, is there any particular technique/way of hitting to avoid ever developing any elbow, wrist or shoulder issue? any specific exersice to prevent it?
^ I had a colleague get the 'bow from the LMRadMid+...... it's all technique... not the frame.
Lessons... video-tape yourself... more legs.. less arm... no sexual activities 24hrs. before a match (hey, it works in futbol)
Dead poly, bad technique, stiff racquets, aging tendons...etc. Different for everyone. I've never experienced it but thats becuase if I feel anything bad at all in my arm I ditch that setup immediately.
In other news, a racquetholic miracle: early rains appeared to for sure thwart my evening hit with Mad Dog, and a new batch of demos. Then, suddenly, the skies parted. So desperate am I to hit with these frames before I leave for New York on Friday, I actually went out to the court with a heavy broom to even out some of the puddles...
I did so, and then: the sun appeared, helping out even more. It appears we're back on for tonight. Demos: Prestige MP, Yonnie 200, Organix 10.
Interestingly enough the Prestiges (I got one with poly and the other with multi) weigh in at 12.1, and prior demo was 11.9. My worry with the Prestige is that the two previous demo frames I tried played and felt a little differently even though they both weighed in at 11.9, and now these are 12.1, so there appears to be some quality control issues.
Buckethead was banned back in August. It's a shame - I was looking for him so we could pile on Chokedasco after the first round of the Aussie Open. I think his clothes actually distracted him from his game.
Buckethead and I used to have endless fun making up names like Blowdasco.
Ross I so very much enjoy reading your thread here, which at this point is pretty much your tennis blog. I'm always ecxperimenting too. In fact, I just hit the living daylights out of my Dunlop 4G 500 Tour using......
A three dollar set of Forten Sweet 16. Who would have thought such cheap string could feel so good.
Sounds like there's definitely a technique issue, but, outside of that: Theraband Flexbars are great for TE. Tell your friend to take 1-2 weeks off (at least) from tennis, order up the flexbar (green is usually best) and do those exercises as therapy. Really helped me out when I had some bad TE for a short time.
Just do a search for those flexbars on this forum and you'll find a ton of good stuff and feedback.
The only time I ever had elbow pain was when I developed the bad habit of gripping the racquet too hard. Loosened my grip and never had problems again.
From what I've read it's unclear if racquet shock or racquet vibration is responsible for tennis elbow.
Racquets that transmit less shock are less stiff, have higher swingweight, have more headlight balance and are heavier, and are strung with softer strings at lower tensions. Cushiony handles help.
Racquets that transmit less vibration are more stiff, have higher swingweight and are heavier. Cushiony handles help.
You can see that, all other things being equal, stiffer racquets transmit more shock but less vibrations and softer racquet transmit less shock but more vibrations. So there is a bit of a quandry if you don't know if it's shock or vibration that is causing or contributing to the elbow issue. But there are lots of vibration damping technologies used on softer racquets (Organix yellow thing, foam/silicone in the handle, etc.), so it's possible to have a soft racquet that doesn't vibrate very much. But the only tech that reduces shock is Pro Kennex's kinetic/ionic stuff. So if you want to use a stiff racquet, a PK frame with soft strings is probably the way to go.
My personal feeling is that vibration isn't that big a deal. Lots of people like softer, heavier racquets that actually vibrate quite a bit, but that vibration is part of the "feel and feedback" that we like. And from what I've seen on these forums, many people with elbow issues have gone to flexy, heavier frames with softer strings and had their problems go away.
But like others said above, technique has to be suspected of being a big or huge part of the problem.
In a way I've never had any problems with my elbow even when I use babolat pure drive.. Does this mean that chances are I would never develop it even if I was to switch to a babolat? I'm just curious as I want to change to new racquets as I cannot get pc600 anymore
Just want to echo the thoughts About this thread. I don't know how you guys can keep swapping frames and strings at will but I love reading about all of your journeys in search of the grail! I must say PP you got me thinking about trying a more powerful racket!
Demo Blowout, Sponsored in part by Yonex
Mad Dog and I got stick crazy tonight. Results on my end seemed a bit inconclusive, as there wasn't a single stick I didn't like. In brief:
IG Prestige MP: Same old story. Just a super honest frame that I just really like. And UBER-controlled. Begs you to really lean into a shot and rip. Frame I played with tonight was a brand new demo with a fresh full poly (sonic pro) stringbed that was probably strung a bit too tight, but I still loved the frame. Great feel and absolutely no surprising hotspots, and it just feels 'natural' to me in terms of swinging it and what the ball does. I never feel like I need to 'hold back' on a shot inside the baseline or behind it, I feel completely freed up just to swing out, knowing the ball with stay in, and the harder I swing the better the shot, rarely with the going-long mistake I get with some other frames. A little lower tension on the poly would widen the sweet spot and add the perfect amount of power, I think. No surprises. I love this frame.
Yonex 200: Balanced so beautifully, moves through the air in a truly sparkling way, pockets the ball wonderfully and the sweet spot is absolutely gigantic. All this in spite of the fact that we're dealing with another overcooked spaghetti multi stringbed that is moving everywhere and about two seconds from snapping. With full crisp poly, this thing could be magic. Oh, and it's probably the best slicing frame of the whole batch tonight. Hit low liners time after time, despite the stringbed. Flex of the frame really seems to cup the ball here on slices, holding the ball and then just throwing it the other way on a drive. I love this frame, too.
Organix 10: Probably the best Volkl I've ever hit. ... I've never really gotten along with Volkls. Too flexy, bendy, noodley. This one is not like that. It's beautifully crisp on the hit, has a nice big sweet spot and just hits a great ball. Nice easy plow: a definite uptick in that department from the Prestige MP, and while I could get the Prestige and the other frames around quicker, the Volkl wasn't far behind even though it 'seemed' more evenly balanced. In fact, Mad Dog made a good point: in that regard, it felt and swung kinda sorta like my Black Ace. And had that kind of plow through as well. But.. to me this one seemed like a great frame for someone who likes the 6.1 95 but wants something a little easier to swing... Really nothing bad to say here on this frame. Seemed to do everything very, very well. And impresses me in that I can flatten the ball out pretty nicely with it, despite the open pattern. Really drives the ball well and again, when I really go after the ball, I seem able to get a good hit in without losing control of it. This is a frame that, while I'm not jumping out to buy it, I would gladly accept in, say, a frame trade or something to play with it further. I like this one very much.
Yonex RDS 001, RDis 100 -- MD just got these frames used, and they both swung very nice. The 001 is more controlled, the 100 is more powerful. I spent more time with the 100 and really, REALLY like the way it hits and feels. My one gripe (and I think MD shared this) is that slices floated a bit too much too often. But everything else was great, though I really didn't spend much time with the 001 so I can't really comment too much on that. MD seemed to like that one more, saying it was more controlled, which I definitely think is the case. Both really nice frames. I'll say this: the RDS/RDis, and the Yonex 200, they all just crush the recent Xi 98 release. The 200 is the softest among those frames, with the 100 and 001 on the more crisp vibe....
Another great night with MD. We were both hitting pretty darn well with just about every frame. And we may even do it all over again tomorrow night.
Gads talk to me about the fyp factor on the 200...does the frame have cojones.
Was it the 93 or 98 rdis100 that youguys were hitting?
It's there. The ball seems to jump off the stringbed noticeably more so than the other frames. Big spin, too. Sweet spot extends high up in the frame. You can hit some rockets from up there. But the key to this frame is the way it swings. Just so easily. It feels like it's 11.2 or something, but this was (yes, i checked) the heavy frame at 11.8. I got to our session early with a hopper of balls and served with the different frames. 200 definitely had more easy pop than the others. I think the huge sweet spot, sweet swinging and the liveliness high up in the stringbed makes it a potential serving animal.
And this is all in stock form. Some lead on the sucker could make it a beast. Maybe even too beastly. Or maybe just BEASTLY.
And it was the 98 version of the 100 and 001 we were hitting. Really, really large sweet spots on these Yonnies. I guess there is something to the frame shape extending the sweet spot out a bit. I'm definitely a believer in that.
As I recall, verdasco switched briefly to 200, and won San Jose while dropping a few 150mph bombs along the way...
The rdis100...remember liking it a lot, feeling the head was a little big, the vcore 95 solves that...great pjs on these frames...continue to monitor my 200 lust, still want an rd7...played really good with the vcore today though, I love the control, thinner beam smaller head etc...
I think I'm in a holding pattern, just gonna stay curious about these yonnies...
the hitting session tonight with JGads was indeed a super fun one in large part because both of us were hitting well.
i didn't spend too much time w/ the Head IG Prestige MP, Yonex RDiS 200 MP, or the Volkl Organix 10 (325G), but here are my impressions of the sticks for now at least.
Head IG Prestige MP: just a nice sweet feeling stick. the tension felt 2-3 lbs higher than what i'd ideally prefer for a full poly string job so i thought it was low powered especially on my BH wing. i really had to get set up well to generate enough pace on my BH side. FH side was pretty good, but again, definitely did not hit the most penetrating piercing strokes unless i got my weight into the shot. i'm very sensitive to tension. too high and i just can't get the right feel for the ball. the stick is very solid and comfy. i was able to generate plenty of TS in this 18x20 pattern.
Organix 10 (325g): this stick had a nice feel, but felt heavier to me than the 317 SW. i was late hitting the ball a lot. it felt more sluggish than the PS85 which has higher static and swing weights. go figure. i spent the least amount of time hitting w/ this for obvious reasons.
Yonex RDiS 200 MP i just couldn't play w/ the multi. it was just too powerful so i couldn't get a proper assessment on this stick. it's too bad, because this is the stick i really wanted to try out.
Yonex RDiS 100 MP: solid feeling stick. i enjoyed this stick alot although it's a tad lighter than i'm used to so i was ahead of the ball on my backhand side. would need to spend more time with it to groove the backhand. on my forehand side, i was able to crack so good ones. this racquet has more power than i'm accustomed to compared w/ the Vantage BC20 and the PS85. generates good topspin. slices as JGads mentioned had a tendency to float. hard to get the low biting, skidding slice from this frame for whatever reason. also the grip shape was a bit too round and the bevels weren't pronounced enough so i was having a bit of trouble finding my grip quickly on the backhand.
RDS 001: i thought this one would be my least favorite due to the higher stiffness. was i wrong. i ended up spending the most time w/ this one out of the demo bunch. this thing generates some great topspin! loopers, driving top, sharp angle cross court top, topspin lobs...you name it, it's a topspin king! it's lower powered than the RDiS 100 but more powerful than the BC20. SOLID, SOLID feeling stick that excels at CONTROL. i have a feeling i'll be spending alot more time w/ this bad boy in the bumble bee colorway.
at the end of the day, i still hit better w/ the BC20 w/ Iontec Hexa 1.20 than any of these other sticks. for some reason, i get such great control w/ the BC20 Iontec Hexa combo. i can put it deep, shallow, crosscourt, inside out, lots of top, flatten out the shot...you name it, it's just so easy to do w/ this stick w/ this string. i don't have this kind of extension of my arm control w/ any other string in this racquet. i have BHS in my other BC20 and i just don't have the same level of control, power, spin and placement that i do w/ Iontec Hexa.
what would be interesting is putting Hexa into all the Yonies...i can see Iontec working amazingly well for me in the RDS 001 and the RDiS 100 MP. i can also see it working well in the Head IG Prestige MP. it might be too soft in the Yonex RDiS 200 but then again, it works so well in the soft BC20.
will need to spend more time with these experimenting w/ strings and tensions, but the Head and Yonies are all winners that i can see working really well if i found the right setup.
Sounds like you're in a groove that shouldn't be messed with. But I'll continue to report - will probably hit with it once more tomorrow, then hand the demos off to MD for the weekend when I leave town. Then, maybe a purchase or a trade for this frame upon my return from the Land of Linsanity.
200 seems a lot softer to me than the VCore. Big question with the 200 is if you can flatten it out well enough on the forehand, and I think you can, from this early hitting. But need more time and good string to really see completely.
Played with the tourna 7 and timo hybrid yesterday and in the main worked superbly well. I raised the tension a couple of pounds to 47 lbs. Serving was great, tourna 7 is very tour bite like and suited me, lots of power and spin, really liked it. The feel with the timo cross was close to what I'm after, crisp but plush. The only down side was I think the timo at 1.10 is too thin, it doesn't give the full feel of a thicker string, the feel is right but not full enough. This was ok for my fh but my 1hbh felt a bit lost. This was a very powerful set up tho.
I'm getting closer to my perfect set up! The tourna 7 is a real contender for mains, The timo is great but I had just as good feel with the iontec cross being a little fuller.
Gotta string the legend and the blx up so let me know what you think of the string combinations quoted above.
My opponent mentioned yesterday how much flatter I'm hitting of late and how much they are moving thro the court, prob the denser pattern but I noticed it with the volkl mids too, I think coming from the loopy combo of bc20 and tb anything can seem flat. Played real well for two sets, winning 3 & 2 then lost concentration and lost the third 6-4, amazing how this happens when you are winning easily. Went home a bit disappointed with myself for losing focus.
For those of you using full poly, I certainly would consider trying a couple of combinations and see how you fare.
The Legend and Melbourne are the same racket just weighted slightly differently in the lay up. These new sticks have no 'ping' to them, my original Melly has a slight buzz in the hoop, I dont notice it whilst playing so its fine but my racketaholic OCD doesnt like this buzz and is searching to destroy it!
The blx 18x20 feels great, swings so easy, feels like it doeasnt need mods. Think Ive got a heavy one with a bigger SW than normal. I dont mind tho but I would feel sorry for someone who needed it stock. Will measure it up and get it strung. Both the wilson and the BB are very similar sticks.
One other thing about PP's goating of the Wilson grip, this one is a grip 2 and feels so much better to me for being smaller. The ones Ive tried in the past have always seemed much rounder and bigger.
Thanks! It's better now that I have my own stringing machine - makes it easy to try things.
Nice little collection there Meags. If demos were more readily available for the Melbourne I probably would have tried one out. I'm interested to see how you feel about the BLX compared to the Melbourne. I know that for me it lacked a certain fullness in its feel but that was compared to the n95.
Mine has got PHT mains and nrg2 crosses I think and even tho it swings nice there is not that fullness of feel that you speak of like the Melbourne. The n95 I liked but I found them rather clunky (??) .........Our club coach swears by his.....he is one of the best volleyers I have ever seen, just seems to have all day and night to place them, I tend to panic a lot more !!
You weighed the BLX Meags?
The n95 does have a heavier swing to it and if you are used to much lighter swinging more modern frame then yeah, I could see it feeling clunky for you. I'm used to heavy racquets and heavy feeling swings so the n95 fits me just fine. I will say that the new BLX has a fuller feel than its predecessor but still not nearly as full as the n95. It is still a great frame though.
I meant clunky as in manoeuvrability issues, something about the short, wide throat, prob the colour made me feel like its bigger cos the blx seems trim.
Actually its nothing out of the ordinary 351g stock strung.
What gauge PHT & nrg2? It seems a little more open than I remember my demo being which was strung with 16g POSG.
Ah...that makes a little more sense. I'll do a side by side tonight when I get home.
I pro opened again last night.
Racquet 1 - set up with babolat leather grip and 3 grams of lead at 12. Weighing in at 11.5. Strung with RIP control at 59#s.
This stick played with the swagger and solidity of a much heavier racquet. It was very easy to hit very heavy groundstrokes and the topspin was massive. The leather grip made the handle feel perfect due to its slimness. If it bugs my hand, i may try a skin feel out. But the babolat leather appears to weigh LESS then the pro hybrid grip, and provides more bevel feel.
I am guessing the sw on this setup is high 320s. The only thing i could feel was that with the lead at 12 it was slightly head heavier than i wanted. So i went home and took 3 grams of lead..folded it up and stuck it to the inside of the buttcap. Basically i made a donnay buttcap. It works well since the handles are filled with foam. Anyway, the stick now weighs 11.6 and is balanced close to 6 pts hl. I will see how that plays, but i think i may have dialed this thing in already.
The other stick is stock with gut/poly. This racquet is so comfy that i am not sure i need this string setup in it, but it plays very nice. Im thinking i can save some cash and hybrid in the pro open.
Anyway serves are definitley easier for me with the pro open. Huge power and spin. What a pleasure it is to serve with these sticks...they are just so easy to use that my main thing, as usual, is simply to stay controlled and not overhit on groundies.
With that little bit of lead, the stick hits as heavy as any other racquet, yet stays light, so it is just a very easy to use racquet. The comfort level and feel is also off the charts. I have to say so far im really impressed. This is defintely my new light racquet setup.
^I can only use the adjectives 'open and clear' to describe my demo session with the ProOpen. Really a slept-on frame and that set-up you got there is what I felt the racquet needed after walking away from the demo. A little at the poles and right at 330g strung.
Thanks for the great review, Gads. As you know, I pulled the plug and am on a "longer-term" trial with the IG PMP. So far, so good. Trying out the gut/poly combo, a la PP salivations over this set-up; have to admit, it's nice. Using VS mains, Co-Focus crosses for now at 58/53. Similar to what you said about your demo, it feels a little tight; just strung it up recently so may wait to see if it settles a bit more. But very comfy and solid set-up.
Curious, have you tried the IG Prestige Pro? Seems like with the more open pattern, might have more pop?
Yeah this thing is apparently a best seller, but on the boards has flown under the radar. It is far better to me than a babo, and it serves like a pure drive. Very easy to mod too, so that was a pretty quick experience.
Haven't tried the Pro. Would have demo'd it if TW had it in stock but they didn't at the time. A little leery about the frame, though, due to its added stiffness, people talking about how it's a bit sluggish and, mostly, just based on the fact that I HATED the Youtek version of the Pro as to me it felt like an uncontrollable brick on groundies. I do want to hit with the Innegra version just to check it out, but I just don't see myself liking it as much as the silky smooth MP and it's very controlled 18/20 bed, which I love. But, if you end up trying the Pro, please let me know how it compares to the MP, but for now I think I'd be happy with just toying around with the MP. I can't find much fault in it, and I imagine just a touch of weight added at the handle and the hoop could make it perfect.
Interesting find..Lopez may use the real pro open, and the tournament specs from his stick are 330 grams, 32.4 balance (6pts hl)...so i did a lopez setup without realizing it. He places the lead at 3 and 9 which is the main difference, but kind of reaffirms my notion of how solid this stick is even at almost an ounce lighter then the 6.1.
Lopez is definitely with some version of this wilson pd although he issporting juice pj these days. For sick lopez hitting checjlk out us open 2007 highlights vs federer. He was on fire for a couple sets.
Nice and orderly!
I sure do miss 18x20's.
The benefit of stringing 17g at low tensions really brings that 'plush-power' out of a frame. The lower flight of the ball... the slice... the solid feel at net. I better stop now... starting to persuade myself.
Meaghs, I'd really like to know more on how the B6.1 compares to other 18x20 frames you've swung with similar specs.
Do u think those Lopez specs are unstrung, that seems really light. That sounds like
a great stick, hell I may have to try
PED, id love to hear your thougts. I think it is the best tweener light stick i have used. You could try my lead mod as well, which seems to work perfectly. The feel is just really full and solid for a stick like this. Its definitley a racquet that old school pre cortex apd and pd lovers will absolutley have to consider.
The lopez specs are strung weight..well i found his unstrung weight and added 18 grams. So his stick is 312 unstrung.
I never knew this racquet existed until gads brought it up. It looks similar to the phased out pro tour, so i think that is why i never knew about it.
Well, I'll be following your progress with a keen eye here. As I said yesterday, you've got me curious (again). And you say you have 2 already... fast work!
Splendid stuff Mr Kennedy.
mad and Gads,
Really fascinating little reviews boys ^. I sense I'm due to break the cycle of continually looking at the same frames and you're giving me a few ideas. Keep us updated with these rackets.
I have to add that the mad dog gads review is fantastic since they are hitting together and swapping out racquets..really cool stuff.
Md i will give the ionic penta a go in the pro open..im afraid it may be too soft, but i have to know. The durability, spin..etc from the ionetc is really top notch. If i dont like that, i will settle in with a poly/ nv hybrid. Just dont think this stick needs gut, but it does play rather well in it also.
6.1 blx is a gut/poly stick for sure. I cant see using anything else in it..it just plays so perfectly. Just make sure the tension is right for you.
Yes. I found the same specs for lopez. And with this string set-up from the AO 2012... it's no wonder his serve is massive.
Luxilon Alu Power/Luxilon AceVS Team 51/46lbs
And the winner of the 'Iron-elbow' award goes to..... drum-roll please....
Babolat Pro Hurricane 69lbs
You know, there's something positively artistic in this lay out. BTW Ricardo, I want a fully detailed post on your impressions with the BLX! I thought it would be about as much use to you as Louis Suarez's hand is to Patrice Evra!
Glad you enjoy the diary. Originally my job was merely to facilitate... to enable others... to let racketaholics express themselves freely and without shame! And I think that's just about been achieved now... So... tell us about the Dunny 4g 500 Tour.:wink:
Hit finally with the PT630 and TGKPP this afternoon. They are both great frames, but, as I mentioned above, you know, I think I'm in the mood to break the cycle and look at some totally new frames... hmm... time to start checking a bit further afield for sure.
klem, where you find the stringing specs?
Thanks, gents. We're giving it another go tonight. My last night of hitting for a week. (good time to give my arm a little break to rejuvenate). Will report back later.
On the flip side of things, MD hit the toughest ball for me to handle last night with his BC20 with Iontec, constantly putting me on the defensive and placing the ball in the corner. The BC20 ball is just so nasty sometimes. "Angry spin" is the term I've coined for MD and the BC20 w/ Iontec. And the anger of that spinny ball, along with about 10 minutes of hitting with one of MD's 20s with a leather grip and a BHS stringbed, convinced me to probably pull back on selling my 20. It's such a special, unique stick, that I'd like to keep in the collection. So good. ... Oh, and MD also hit some nasty balls with his 85 (as always), as well as some really nice hitting at the end of the session with his new bumblebee 001 MP.
On to tonight...
So guessing you're nixing the black-out juice job? Saw your ad in the FS thread.
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