Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Ross K, Sep 11, 2010.
Yep, sounds about right. Glad you're off to a good start with it.
Sounds good pp. I do think SW around the 360 mark is the best. Its not difficult to manage unlike 370+ just be prepared and let the thing get in motion. It helps our overswinging tendancy on easier balls, there's a consistency in the head speed.
When I played golf there was a reason for stiff shafts, when you get to a level in golf tennis etc we can all swing away with good technique we just need to know where the racket head is.......Thats why most pros play with a similar SW. It does make the game easier.
Next mod pp is to add weight top of handle and take it back up to 8 pts HL see how that goes.......
All this talk of 360+ SW etc is making me think suddenly and with a certain fond recollection of my marooned PC+ Swirlies (12.3 static, 8 pts h/light, approx 66 RA, 350 SW)... I say 'marooned' because these are are presently hundreds of miles away down in Devon. However, later this summer I should be able to get reacquainted. Must admit, nothing has quite blown my mind in the last few years like these frames... but not the easiest to get about probably.
The thing with the pc like the kps they are already like bricks!
My bc20 is lighter and modded to the same kinda weight and SW it swings easier than the pc for instance.
That's why a lot of pro rackets are fairly light so some mods can be done. Imo too much midification creates a cumbersome stick. Its finding out what's right for you. Pp is going about it the right way. Starting with a solid mid weight frame. He will get the benefit of the pc thwack whikst retaining the whippy manouverability pre mod.
Had 5 mins before my match last night with my kps88. Solid as I remember and was hitting really nicely with it but the head just wasn't swinging thro like my other racks so I knew I needed a touch of the lead or something.
So this morning I set to it with all tye zeal of a turd with a hangover and I got rid of the leather, moved the 5g on handle to the extension in the butt. Added my bast core faux leather which is really thin and og over. I have added 2g at 12. Now the weight matches my bc20s but he balance has come down to 5 pts from eight and the SW has gone up to 370 from 360.
Although these seem like rather large changes the kps88 now swings like my bc20s. Gonna take the black beauty for a spin.
Two rubbers last night two super tie breaks two losses. I hate super tie breaks with a passion!!
On court now and I just have to say WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW.
Swings very easily at the spec 370 static and SW and 5pts HL. Heavy ball you can just feel the penetration.
Yes, this much we know. But quite what motivates a man in his racket choices; what deep failings he seeks to address and what dark secrets he seeks to hide, it is not always apparent to those watching, nor even to the player himself.
Gads, serves are easier for me. I think this is because I can take my time more and use less effort..I am using the abbreviated serve motion to really work on the my swing to contact..I am extremely excited of the potential on serve because I have yet to really uncork anything yet, and the serves I am hitting at half speed are already pacey enough for match play. I was stunned at how the racquet did not feel sluggish at all..I am going to give this time, and in fact (barring rain) will hit tonight on a back to back and work out at lunch. So this will be a nice test since I will not be at full strength out there.
I think Meaghan has nailed it here. I don't overswing on easy balls, which is a huge problem of mine. The racquet head speed is just so consistent. My mind stops telling me to kill the ball with a hard crazy swing because I'm absolutely walloping it with a controlled one. The spin is also very aggressive..my strokes on both sides are very Djokovic like..I was told that when he was sucking 3 years ago, so this is not some new compliment. I just hit with that type of flatter trajectory a lot, but still load the ball up with topspin..when the ball comes off the bounce, I noticed a difference from unmodded... besides the pace, the ball has plenty of spin and kick to it..it is very heavy.
Ross, I wish you could get this 7G just because with this setup, I feel like it has to be rather similar to your PC Swirly.
I do like the current balance a lot..5-6 points always seemed to jive with me.
Basically, I have the exact Roddick setup 345 grams,6 pts HL, 360 SW, XL length.
It works..real well. Swear the game just got easier (even solidity at net)..but ill keep testing.
Six 'wows' eh? Full report please!
I was thinking about the discussion in the heavy frame vs light frame thread and wondering if what I'm using has a swingweight higher than what I thought it had. I had just assumed 330 but it might be more which would put my mods higher than what I think that it is. I am currently waiting for one frame to arrive (have been waiting since July 16) and I was planning to bring my four frames to a shop with an RDC machine to get the specs on them. Then I could make far more informed choices. I was thinking of getting a few tgk260s (59 RA vs 63 RA would be nice for my arm) but I wanted to try mine first. I'm almost getting impatient enough to just buy the 260s without trying one first.
My alternative right now is to add some lead to the upper handle of my current frame to balance out the lead at 12:00. That might make the racquet more comfortable for me.
Original was 11.9, added .2 to get to 12.1, add another .2 for 12.3?
Just had a hit with my kps88 and before the wows and my partner turned up I did some hitting on my tod and the spec felt very comfortable. It felt like I was really ripping the ball. A few serves and dialled in straight away as this is the best serving stick around. Swerve, corner to corner and kick all very easy and the control is just super.
Groundstrokes again were heavy with spin easily accessible no more or less than my bc20. I did notice that I can just rely on good technique and I don't have to welly the ball. Depth was so easy. My friend had a go and I went back to my bc20. And the most noticible difference was ball trajectory but this may be more to do with tour bite in the 20. Also more power in my 20 but I think that was to do with the string too!
Actually lookinh forward to getting tour bite in this stealth bomber. Tbh I was hitting very well with it from the off. Its super stable and a joy, heavy yes but I had two hours no problem. Oh not one shank neither Infact I shanked one when I hit my 20 ha! Massive sweetspot too. The 20 is easier to use but the 88 serves better imo. Interesting times ahead.
Just put a tourna grip on it and the thing does look proper plush.
Interesting, Rich... and I take note of your comment re the Tour Bite... it always seems to be that way for me too when I return to TB and the increase in power, spin, control, etc.:wink:
I added 6.5 grams at the top of the handle and 0.75 grams at 12:00 this evening. I'm hoping that it will provide more comfort and add just a touch more power. I swung it around and it still felt easy. My guess is that it's now about 12.4 to 12.5 ounces before overgrip. It's starting to get up there but still a lot lighter than the KPS88.
Playing a match tomorrow so we'll see how it performs.
What's motivating me indeed, I ask myself, whilst pondering my long overdue remodding/new caps installation on my TGKPP that's finally about to take place... ("Reaches for cigarette.")
We should have a tgk/pt/hxx pics thread.
I just checked one of the frames that I ordered a while ago and I misread the stats. I thought that it was 350 grams strung. Turns out that it's 350 grams unstrung. I did some calculations on estimates (based on visible lead tape and my guesses on SW in general on my current frames) and I'd guess that this thing has a SW in the 370 - 400 area. It should be interesting to see what it is like.
Ross, the YTPP should be modded man..I mean why else have it? It may become a complete beast..you can copy any pro's setup you want with that beauty - the true awesomeness of the TGK. I would strongly suggest polarizing it and keeping the static weight as low as possible...just crank up the SW to 350-360 and keep the balance at 6pts HL if possible. That could make it into the stick of your dreams.
Well I went and matched my second 7G to the Roddick setup and went out there and played for 2 more hours after working out earlier. There is no doubt that you have to move your feet and prepare, but that is a cliche. You have to do that with every racquet ever made if you want to be halfway decent.
The problem I think some folks here may have is that you have to commit to the setup. You can't worry about "what ifs" and other racquets you may have brought. The good news is that the feel, and quality of ball is so incredible that this is pretty easy. The racquet does not feel sluggish to me..it may be due to the nature of this stick. I think you need the right stick to mod it like this. If you have a stick that already feels solid at stock weight, it will be tough to modify and handle the extra weight. This is why Devil mentioned the Pure Drives..they are pretty ideal for polarization..hollow feeling and light static weight..that is key. I'd personally buy the extended version, as that makes it even easier.
Anyway, the Roddick setup has a ton of power. Good news is that it is controllable power. 80% swings for easy winners. You know that shot where you have to rush the service line and put away a sitter..sometimes you can overswing because you think they may get to the putaway shot? No problem..just relax and put it in the corner for a winner. You will notice that you can literally hit right through an opponent that you could not before. But you have to prepare early and move your feet..you need to turn by the time the ball is crossing the net..but you should do this anyway. So many people don't do this simple thing that racquet companies make millions off of low SW racquets that are "easy" to use.
I would also suggest hybriding just because you can up your tension. Lower tension full poly probably works just fine, but a hybrid at 58-60 is going to be a beautiful thing as well. I was hitting long with my hexy fibre/BM setup that has dropped to 45#s..I still adjusted my grip and was ok, but I felt more comfortable with my MCS crosses that were lower powered and strung tighter (newer string job).
I can tell you that you will hit the best slices of your life as well.. surprisingly drop shots were also incredible. Very easy to hit droppers off either side..I am not sure why, but I felt extremely comfortable hitting droppers that I knew were winners before they fell across the net.
So I feel a little better today recommending this setup because I used it under a pretty fair amount of fatigue and still played pretty well. Many of you guys searching for that holy grail feel..that heavy ball sensation where it feels like the ball will break on a full swing..there is no racquet that will do this without a big time swing weight..that is the secret.
If you try it..I implore you to not switch in between sets..or even bring another racquet..you have to committ to it for a while or this setup is not for you..but if you are going through sticks left and right and are missing that elusive feeling of power control and the perfect sweetspot, I promise this is closer to grailworthy than any stock racquet you can get.
My current plans are to get the specs of my three, hopefully soon to become five frames. I've only been using one and will probably sell one of the other 238.4s but I want to modify the 238.4 XL, one of the 238.4 SL, and the incoming 260.2s to the same static weight, swingweight, and balance. The main difference will be flex. If I fall in love with the 260s, then I may try to get a few more and then sell off the 238.4s.
Playing around with these frames isn't that hard because I'm coming from the KPS. I think that those used to lower swingweights and lower static weights may have more problems than those that are used to relatively high SW numbers.
It's a headache as it takes a lot of experimentation to find what you want. If you're using unmatched pro stocks, then you need a way to take spec measurements. I plan on taking the whole bunch of frames to a shop with an RDC machine. It's an hour away so I'd really only like to do it once. They could do the customizations or I could do them once I have the specs.
Yeah..it is almost a waste of money to have a TGK if you can't get access to the exact specs of it..you will always be playing a guessing game. You definitely need to get a starting spot for those SWs or you are going to go mad..lol.
Nice write up PP, and it really sums up the advantages of the higher SW.
One caveat though that I think should be mentioned is that a higher SW setup, or even dare I say, an extreme SW setup of ~360, is really better suited to players that play often and that are fit.
Even very competent players that really only get to hit 1-2 a week, and then go weeks in between hits will struggle with such a high SW.
Other than that, there's no mystery, the higher the SW the more power that's available on tap.
That brings me to the whole Traverlerjam pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo with his magical ratios for MC2 x (the girth of your index finger / the length of your dong) x balance point - the age of your grandmother. .................. or whatever.
That's all nonsense, it all comes down to this: It's pretty self evident that the best / fittest / mentally tough players will be able to handle higher SW's. It's also self evident that the best / fittest / mentally tough players will be the highest ranked ones.
There's no magical ratio or balance, it's really just that strong and fit guys with great technique can handle more SW which in turn allows them to smack the s#&t out of the ball. Plain. And. Simple.
Iphone app is your friend. That thing is magical. The TW method works also, just a bit more time consuming.
You could be right there. Of course anyone that does not get to play on a fairly regular basis should not be a racquetaholic unless they like setting money on fire and driving themselves insane.
Fitness has something to do with it as well I am sure. I have been lifting weights a lot more, cycling and playing tennis 3 times a week.
The one thing is that I actually save energy with this higher SW. I can keep nice controlled swings going for a lot longer than the violent one of a lighter stick.
I think about anyone that posts regularly in here can handle it for example.
the Iphone app you are talking about is the SW measurer in Racquettune? I have never tried it..any tips?
There's that one, but there's an app called SW app by the same guy. It uses the camera of the phone to measure the swings. It's quite the piece of technology actually.
It's very good and precise. It's what allowed me to pin point the aenimic SW of the YTK PMP (305 :shock.
As for tips, it's quite straight forward, as long as there's good light in the room and you do it over 10+ times to get an accurate average.
Bro, you just defined the average racquetaholic. You live in a nice warm climate, I'm stuck going months without playing during the winter.
And you know what they say........... idle hands are the racquetaholics playthings....
Damn..I have an ipad1 so I can't use it. Good news is there an RDC machine 1 mile away so I just use that.
As for the average racquetaholic..man if I didnt play all year I would never tinker..I do understand the idle hands thing, but the only way to know what works is to log hours. They have to have indoor courts or something up there right?
Gads is a classic holic in my mind because he plays a ton and really comes to an informed decision based on hours of play with each stick. That is the only way to know what works w/out going mad..IMO.
I'd probably have to have a winter hobby or something and just stay off these boards when its snowing..lol.
Yeah, there's a state of the art facility at Jarry stadium where the Rogers cup is. It's the Tennis Canada training facility and courts are $20 an hour, so $10 both ways. It's publicly funded so no need for memberships or anything.
Problem of course is getting a court, if I'm lucky I can get 1-2 hours a week, which isn't bad. The thing is winter really turns you into a hermit. You just tend to stay in more and pile on the pounds. :-(
Gads is an informed holic, the classic holic (racquetaholicus genericus) trolls the internets for the bestest setup (often referred to as the holy grail), never works on his conditioning (it's up to the racquet to make ones life easier), and accumulates racquets because he's impatient and can't be bothered / doesn't have access to a demo and whenever he finds his holy grail, always purchases a minimum of two specimens.
It's called beer.................. gut
We have a YMCA with two indoor courts (used to be 3 but they turned on into a street hockey rink). $24/hour court fees but I don't think that I've ever paid it in the last 23 years that we've been there. I usually play when the courts aren't in use or sub in for someone in a group. Many years ago before they had court fees, a bunch of us would play at 6:30 AM three days a week. In the wintertime it could be 5 degrees (F) - it would take a few minutes of hitting before the balls warmed up enough to bounce decently.
Played my match this afternoon - 3 sets, 6-2, 6-2, 6-2. The modifications (6.5 grams above the handle, 0.75 grams at 11:00 and 1:00) made a considerable difference. This is a pretty large change in mass and it caused me some problems with the serve - mainly with keeping the ball in the court. Power was up but taming it was a problem. I switched in some slice serves which were pretty interesting - they seemed to be perfect for heavy SW racquets. Arm comfort was better - so much so that I removed the vibration dampener.
One shot that my opponent had more problems than usual was my forehand topspin shot. The extra mass seems to add spin or kick. It helped on the backhand side too if preparation was correct. There were several times where I netted high backhands close into the body. I knew what I was doing wrong but I didn't do the right thing. Adjustments need to be made.
So the mass helps but I need to dial in the serve.
I might also need tighter strings. I think that the 18x20 is a good match to a heavy frame.
PP, Since you were using the Donnay Plats for a while, think that is a good candidate for this kind of mod? I have both the 99 and 94; both have relatively light SWs (315 and 313, respectively from TW) and with the thin beams already providing a fair amount of quickness to an already light SW frame, seems like a potentially good candidate. Static weight is already where I like it, around 12.
Gads, wonder if the PK BA mid might also be a candidate? I demo'd that one a while back and liked it. Plays similar in some ways to the Plats I have, though I recall it being a bit more flexy.
I think the Platinum is for sure. I'd put the 10 gram cap on the butt end and then try 8grams of lead on the tip at 12. The Platinum swings so easily that this could turn it into a fierce beast. The SW should be around 350 after that. If you do that, please post how it goes..you may be incredibly happy with the results.
The Black Ace will be a little tougher I would think due to the balance. Basically the static weight is going to be higher than some people would prefer. You want the stick balanced at 5-6 pts HL so the higher swingweight is easier to handle.
8 grams in the tip would boost the SW up to what I have, but the balance would end up around 1 pt HL. You would have to counter that with a leather grip or 8 grams in the handle. so basically the racquet will be weighing in at 12.5.
The Black Ace is basically a prestige, and those sticks (unless they are TGKs) are impossible to polarize properly due to the higher static weight and low swing weight. Looking past this, the Black Ace would be PERFECT for the mod if it only came in at 9pts HL.
Ross K has 2 grails for modding..the TGK and the original APD. Those should both be perfect. Frankly between those 2 sticks he should be set.
Just managed to get the leather back on the 88. Took the 5g from the butt but somehow kept the same weight but moved the balance to 6pts. It feels so much lighter prob only lost about five points of SW. Groundstrokes were great just volleys more difficult but this small change makes a big difference.
Like pp said before on these heavier sticks its just a fine difference here and there.
Am I the only one who enjoys a glass of wine and likes to look at themselves hitting shots infront of the mirror with a pro staff! !
Nice setup, I'll be it just punishes the ball PP You're right, your setup handles pace all while being less taxing to use.
Re the Rafa setup, I've tried it several times over the last few eyar and that's a tough one to use day in day out: the balance is so extreme at 33.4-it plays very much like the rad pro and can get sluggish. Plus, it's murder on the wrist. Very suited for Rafa's topspin game but you can be a little late on a fast HC or against a big flat hitter.
I like your setup above, plenty of HL balance still and plenty of mass to drive the ball.
I've considered taking a pslgt, swapping the leather for synthetic to give me a less HL balance and stick 4g under the bumper. String at 50/48 for extra oomph and I'd be set. The only problem is how low powered it is.
PED you are mod king so it is good to hear from you. I somehow made it out there again today for 2 more hours. That's 3 straight days of 1 hour weights at lunch and 2 hours of tennis. I am taking tomorrow off and dedicating my evening to friends and females.
I sat on my sofa and was fully committed to Goating out on the sofa and playing some Call of Duty or calling up a buddy for drinks. Just was super tired...I then had a small meal and decided that I needed to go hit..I needed to feel that racquet crushing the ball once again. It is pure addiction.
So I trudged out there expecting to stuggle..be late..tired arm..etc..but no. I actually hit the best of the 3 days. I could literally do whatever I wanted to the ball. This is insanity. The Roddick setup is godlike..I wish you could all feel this magic. I hope one day you can.
A fellow TTer in the 7G thread tried it out and is sold. I am feeling more comfortable in possibly calling this the GOAT setup. I need to send Roddick some Black Mgic and Gosen so he can return to glory asap.
PP...sorry for being lazy but I am :smile: .... but what is the Roddick set-up?
A 7G with 8 grams of lead at 12 for a SW of around 360. Oh, except that instead of a PK it's a Babolat.
I reckon 345g's, 6pts headlight, 360 SW, very polarized racquet.
Sergento, you nailed it. Our esteemed buddy down here, BobFL got Roddick's actual stick and specced it out. He uses a 27.5 as well.
It is also more flexible..like the 7G..probably 66-67..and not like the 70s that the PD is in. Regardless the PD is obviously another stick that can be dialed up, but the balance of the 7G plus the XL length makes it a very very unique stick.
I swear to god PK wanted more serious players to lead this thing at 12. I am writing the President of ProKennex for validation of this theory.
I´m back to old habbits of testing frames again. I was "sober" from May 1 to July 20.... Used Head YT Speed Pro with great satisfaction, then the brain started to demand the drug called "new frame sensation" so I ordered a YT Prestige MP, YT instinct, a couple of used i.prestige MP´s and a Wilson BLX Pro Tour... and i´m about to order a aeropro drive GT and PST Ltd GT as well.
I have tried the YT Prestige MP now, both in stock form and customized with 5 g´s of lead at 3 and 9 + 5 g´s lead in the handle and a leather grip. Stock form feels to light for me, and in the customized form it´s pretty good, but the feel of the youtek prestige is just not for me. Hard to say, but for example i.prestige feels so much more "alive" compared to the damped feel of the YT Prestige MP. Prestige also have one MAJOR construction flaw,, the grip is WAY WAY WAY to short for us with big hands and 2 handed backhands. I miss about 2 inches of "foam". If i was to use the Prestige full time i would mold some foam up on the throat of the frame to extend the grip so i not have to use the throat as grip.
I have big hopes for the BLX Pro Tour. I like the Wilson-feel and with some lead in the BLX Pro Tour i think we have some nice mass to work with.
For the Bab´s,, just because i want to try them... The aeropro drive GT looks good and i want to take it for a test so i can write about it on my tennisgear-review page here in Sweden and the PST ltd GT because the video from TW yesterday made me want to have that fram =)
To be continued...
Didn't realise I could post pics from my phone so here's a test....my beautiful 88
I actually won my first ever singles title with the i.Prestige MP.. 2002 Victorian Grasscourt Open i geelong, Australia. Hope they perform like i remembered =)
How you finding the Weisscannon Silverstring, Rich? I'm actually deliberating whether or not to try one of the Weisscannon strings in my soon to be remodded and recapped TGKPP.
Okay, you're getting me twitchy here - LOL... For my APD, if it was yours, what exact mods would you carry out (as in lead amounts and locations)? Or did you mean just copying Rafa's mods? In which case (and PED above said totally what I think re using the Nadal set up), I'll probably pass.
Ross really like the Silverstring. Its kinda soft feeling, comfortable. Spin is good, power ok.....lacks the umph and edge of TB tho. Reminds me of a number of decent polys but not special. B5e I liked. Tension again like Silverstring is good, bit crisper, decent pop. Non are like TB tho in the right frame. I'm gonna string it about 50lbs in the 88 and hold on for dear life!
Ross, I have been lurking on this thread for quite some time, but haven't participated until now. I tried Power Player's 7g set up last night, and all I can say is WOW, I was absolutley crushing the ball. I posted my findings over on the 7g thread.
I played with the standard length swirly pure control for quite some time before switching to the Prince diablo mid. I can say that the 7g with 8 grams at 12 o'clock plays a lot like the pure control, but without the sluggishness that the pure control had. When I played full imte, the sluggishness was no big deal, but now at my advanced age, I had a hard time with it. The 7g hits that big, booming ball, but felt much easier to swing.
Hope this helps, I was amazed how the weight changed the dynamics of the 7g.
You've put lead on that at 12?How much??
Ross, instead of copying the Nadal setup, I'd take PED's advice and skip that. He is right, the racquet will be around 2pts HL and personally that bugged the heck out of my shoulder after a while on the Rad Pro.
I would try 8 grams of lead in the handle..around 1-2 inches from the buttcap.
Then 8 grams of lead at 12. The SW should be around 350 and the balance will be the same. The racquet should weigh 11.9.
If you can track down a PK 7G, you can copy my setup and sell all your other sticks..haha. But it is interesting to read Sparky's assessment that is plays like an easier Pure Control..that was my suspicion, but I could not confirm it since I do not have one.
Yes, I, too, couldn't withstand the weight/balance - play at optimum effectiveness with the Rad Pro. But I'll definitely consider your mod rec. Unfortunately, as mentioned before, I'm fairly sure the PK 7G is extremely hard to locate here in the UK
Very interesting post here and on the other thread.
Any chance you could mail me your email address (I just tried to send you a message but your profile doesn't allow it.) As you seem to know your stuff re TGK/modding/set ups, etc, I just wanted to run something by you before I embark on remodding/recapping my TGKPP. Much obliged,
Dressed................... or undressed?
Male clothing or female?!:shock:
Just add @gmail.com to my username.
I've only been using Pro Stocks since May. You might have more experience that I do with them. I haven't recapped any of them. I have changed pallets/buttcap and have played around with lead tape but I did that with retail sticks in the past. In general, I think that you can just ask here or on the Pro Equipment forum.
Cheers. Will drop you a note, or you can maybe just reply here. Basically, I'm somewhat 'technically challenged' - LOL! And I find the TGKPP maddening to comprehend re mods etc due to some of the stats/specs facts being something of a grey area, the frame being so light, etc. I was thinking of simply trying to get it to about retail YTPP specs as a starting point, and then experimenting from there, though I'm conflicted exactly how much lead to apply to the TGKPP to achieve this - and where best to apply the lead also.
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