Did America Win or Lose the War of 1812?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by soyizgood, Mar 7, 2009.

?

Did America Win/Lose/Draw in the War of 1812?

  1. Won

    21.1%
  2. Lost

    21.1%
  3. Tie

    57.9%
  1. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I've been arguing with some British guy on youtube over this. He claims America lost. I claim it was a draw. He says America started the war because America wanted Canada. I said Britain started this for stealing American cargo and abducting American sailors and forcing them into British Navy service. So now I'm taking the debate here.

    Vote and feel free to discuss.
     
    #1
  2. 10sfreak

    10sfreak Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    698
    Location:
    Georgia
    I'd say it was a draw, and that, to an extent, you're both right about the causes of the war. The U.S. did covet Canada (although I don't know that we would have started a war to acquire her, without the following reason to go to war...) and the British did have an unfortunate tendency to illegally imprison American sailors and force them to serve in Her Majesty's Navy.
     
    #2
  3. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    We were so outraged by the actions England and France were doing to our ships that we actually were 1 vote away from declaring war on France as well. But England went too far and was more of an immediate threat (France had already sold us Louisiana and France had basically no navy left during the Napoleonic Wars).

    In my book, the only wars America can honestly admit to losing were the Civil War (such a terrible waste of lives on both the North and South) and the Vietnam War. The Korean War was a draw.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
    #3
  4. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,161
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    You're arguing over youtube??????????????
     
    #4
  5. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    It actually started over a video on soccer dives of all things. Something talked trash about soccer, another guy called soccer the real football, and then this guy brought up America losing the war of 1812.
     
    #5
  6. dave333

    dave333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    2,018
    I'd consider it a draw, though for the US, a draw back then with the brits was quite an achievement. Spurred a lot of nationalism.
     
    #6
  7. SoBad

    SoBad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    11,009
    Location:
    shiran
    I thought the French went into Moscow, got all drunk and then the Russians set them on fire, and that's how Russia beat France in 1812. Was the US involved in that, and there is much more than meets the eye?
     
    #7
  8. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Napoleon's biggest mistake was marching into Russia. Though the tsar was a beeatch and needed to be confronted. Russia was not so innocent in events leading up to that invasion. Napoleon tried to take on 3 states at once: rebels in Spain, England, and Russia. Kutuzov made one smart maneuver after Borodino which forced Napoleon to go back the same way he entered Russia. Russia's brutal geography and weather did more damage to Napoleon than the Russian army. The biggest irony: Russia's weak army was using modern weapons, while Napoleon was using 50+ yr old cannons and 100+ year old musket designs in this invasion.
     
    #8
  9. SoBad

    SoBad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    11,009
    Location:
    shiran
    Yeah OK, but what did the US have to do with that? I just don't get it...
     
    #9
  10. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    In the US, we just consider the Russia-France war as the "Invasion of Russia". We had our own war in 1812 with England.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
    #10
  11. SoBad

    SoBad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    11,009
    Location:
    shiran
    Haha oh OK oops...! I missed the history class on that one. What were the US and UK fighting about - the Atlantic ocean or how to spell words properly...?
     
    #11
  12. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Depends on whose perspective you're looking at.

    From the American perspective, Britain for years had been pulling over American ships doing trade with France or countries Napoleon had indirect control over. At first, they would either turn the American ships back and/or steal the cargo. When British sailors started defecting, Britain was searching for them and suspected many worked for American ships. They tried determining American from British citizen by their accent. Considering most American citizens at the time were descendants of the British, many American sailors were mistakenly and/or intentionally taken and forced in British Naval service.

    Congress actually banned exporting goods with Britain and France because both intercepted American ships quite a bit. Still, exporters sent out ships due to high profit margins. But when the safety of American citizens were compromised by the British, that gave us little choice but to declare war on Britain.

    British will claim they won because they repelled our invasion into Canada and occupied Washington DC. I claim it was a draw as Britain could never exert control over the Great Lakes (Britain wanted sole control over them, btw), Britain was tired from fighting two wars, and though it shouldn't have counted (took a month to alert our forces the war had ended), Britain was soundly defeated at New Orleans by Andrew Jackson and his band of militiamen. No land changed hands and if anything the outcome probably inspired the Canadians to eventually break free from British rule.
     
    #12
  13. CanadianChic

    CanadianChic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,312
    I would have to say this one ended in a draw. The second main cause of the war were the trade restrictions. Another cause has been claimed of British support of the American natives. That said, it doesn't matter who won which battles, who wanted what land or who else may have become involved. The bottom line is that both sides were winning and losing simultaneously and Britain at this time was facing a threat from Russia which was deemed more important than continuing efforts in America.

    They signed a treaty - the Treaty of Ghent to be exact - which means that both parties agreed to sacrifices...hence, a draw.
     
    #13
  14. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Wow.. 4W-4L-4D so far.
     
    #14
  15. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    38,391
    Location:
    Stronk Era
    Beats me how a game in which you kick the ball with your feet can be called football. :shock::shock:
     
    #15
  16. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,308
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Have you seen the youtube vids on soccer dives? These players are soft, whiny, a bunch of pansy's, and they wonder why America will NEVER embrace soccer, err futbol, err flopper....oh "football".
     
    #16
  17. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,235
    Location:
    USA
    It has been ruled by most historians as a draw. Although the Brits did succeed in torching the White House and other important structures in DC.

    The Brits were very occupied for much of the war with combating a short Corsican with a really bad Napolean complex. ;o)
    That occupation saved the US from probable defeat as it was clearly outmatched by the combo platter of the British, the Canadians, and various Native American tribes.

    Oddly enough, the Battle of New Orleans, which made Andrew Jackson a national hero, was fought two weeks after the peace treaty ending the war had been signed. No cable news, cell phones or email back then, I guess. ;o) Too bad for those killed..

    The New England states continued to trade, illegally so, with the Brits during the war, and there was even some discussion of secession in response to the trade ban imposed by DC. Those crazy New Englanders. Live free or die! ;o)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
    #17
  18. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    38,391
    Location:
    Stronk Era
    You tellin me the "metrosexuals" er pansy's have taken over football *totally*. I stopped watching a Nokia-football program because the host is a panzy -- God, what were those morons thinking when they hired him.:confused:
     
    #18

Share This Page