Did Connors actually teach Roddick anything?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Defcon, May 29, 2007.

  1. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    I just got home and am watching the taped coverage of Roddick-Andreev and I have to say, Roddick has absolutely no clue about point construction. I mean, its not like thats news, and it is after all clay, but c'mon man!

    Even Pmac, Andy's personal cheerleader, said that Andreev isn't doing anything special and Roddick keeps feeding him sitters. As I write this, Roddick gets a short sitter on the ad side, with Andreev way over in the backhand corner, and he hits the one shot guaranteed to make him lose the pt - a deep ball straight at Andreev and then approach the net with the whole court wide open for the pass! How bloody hard is it to approach dtl ?!!
     
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  2. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    I think Roddick still thinks his inside-out forehand will scare people away and win him points. but a mediocre return DTL by his opponent will win the point. Fed showed it in AO. Even a mediocre one to the middle of Roddick's deuce court will do, it doesn't have to be a good DTL shot. and especially so on clay since his power is reduced, giving his opponent time.
     
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  3. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    I don't care what people say about Roddick improving. He needs to improve, improve, improve that backhand. His forehand has fallen apart. He used to have one of the fiercest forehands on tour back in 2003. Now, it's just a paceless spin ball that sits up on the opponents' strike zone to be smacked. I think his serve is the only thing keeping him alive. Too bad the serve isn't as important on clay as it is on grass or hard.
     
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  4. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    I see a pattern - Andy hits to Andreev's bh, who runs around like a rabbit on speed and smacks a fh dtl winner. After #20, I think I'd get the message - hit more to the guy's fh! But then again, I'm not seeded #3, so what the hell do I know !!

    I suppose that tactic means you need to change your gameplan, which actually requires you to have a gameplan longer than 'get your 1st serve in' !
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
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  5. Dink

    Dink Rookie

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    :grin: at the title of this thread
     
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  6. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    Tactic #677 from "An American players guide to resounding clay court success" - when you have bp and the whole court is open, go for a topspin volley.

    #678 - do it again a few points later just to make sure you didn't misread.
     
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  7. jmsx521

    jmsx521 Hall of Fame

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    I think Andy needs to watch his early-day tapes. I was also very impressed by his game back in the early 2000s. Isn't his game stiffer now... he isn't as relaxed with his ground-strokes now as he used to be in the past... needs to be more fluid maybe.
     
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  8. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    Back in the early 2000's, Roddick used to take that racquet back and crank that forehand so hard and flat that it went through the court and the opponent so quick. Nowadays, opponents give Roddick mid-court balls on purpose because they know Roddick cannot finish points off with his sub-mediocre forehand, and then they pass him left and right after Roddick hits a floater as his approach shot.
    Seriously, I'd love to know what happened to that deadly shot he used to have.
     
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  9. Mr. Sean

    Mr. Sean Rookie

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    His forehand has definitely gone down the drain.. It is way too spinny. He not only lost pace on his forehand but he also lost form as well. He barely gets any shoulder rotation on it or anything. People say the reason why roddicks career is so bad is because he lost gilbert. The main reason is the forehand. When roddicks forehand was the way it was back in 03-04 he could stand like 4 feet behind the baseline and dictate play from there. He didnt need to resort to approaching the net and improving a backhand and improving volleys. I think his older style of play suited his body type better than his newer game which relies more on speed and court smarts, which lets face it roddick lacks. I think conners did teach roddick how to be aggressive again which would help any player. I think the difference between conners and gilbert was that conners is trying to turn roddick into a completely different player while gilbert just made small changes. I think the problem with roddick was that he got rid of things that took him to the top. He changed his flat powerful forehand that was a great companion to his serve to a loopy high bouncing ball that players just love nowadays, which is his downfall. I think that big forehand that he had made everything a lot easier, things would just fall in place for him. He would hit a big one and get a weak return and just approach the net and hit a winner. Now he has to worry about hitting 2 shots to even set up an approach shot.
     
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  10. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

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    You guys can state how to improve his game but will it really help his FO chances? Didn't he bomb out of FO first round in 2003 when he was hot?
     
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  11. Soundbyte

    Soundbyte Semi-Pro

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    Give the guy a break. I know we're all throwing our American tennis dreams on the guy right now. He's number 3 in the world. We can't sit here and say he's terrible because he loses a match.

    When Nadal or Roger lose you all say their opponents played great. When Andy loses, you all say he sucks.

    So he's not winning Slams, but he's doing a damn fine job. Not everyone on tour can play like Nadal or Roger and make the finals or win every tournament, especially the Slams.

    Best of luck Andy, you still have at least one fan pulling for you.
     
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  12. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    Did you even watch the match? No one expects Roddick to win. For gods sake Andreev beat him on hardcourt, there's no way he's gonna lose on clay.

    What is expected is that he spend more than 15min preparing for clay, put some heart into the match and give more than a damn. Roddick is a stubborn overhyped 'dude' who likes giving flashy press conferences and the limelight. It would be good if he could forget about his image and focus on his game a bit more.
     
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  13. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

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    Just saw his press conf. Roddick is clearly insane and has lost all touch with reality - he thinks he played ok ?!! Lousy attitude, lousy tactics and no lesson learned. Jimmy Connors better be furious.
     
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  14. Soundbyte

    Soundbyte Semi-Pro

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    He's currently #3 in the world. That would make him better, points wise, then everyone other than Nadal and Federer. Of course, this means nothing to you guys. I'm glad you guys grew up watching the likes of Sampras and Agassi. But face the facts, you were pretty lucky to witness two of the games legends. Not all American tennis players are legends. You're too accustomed to thinking American players ought to be the best.

    In a couple of years when they're no American in the top 10 or top 20, who is everyone going to pick on??
     
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  15. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    Nobody's really throwing America's tennis dreams on Roddick. Honestly, I don't think he's skilled and/or talented enough to be worth it. I know you're a fan of him and I don't mean to offend anybody, but his game just revolves around his serve. If his serve is clicking, then good for him. If it's not, then he's screwed. The bad thing nowadays is that everybody is out-acing Roddick and out-hitting him from the backcourt. It seems like nowadays (And, I'm not talking just about clay season), Roddick's serve isn't as scary-looking anymore to the fellow ATP players. Also, he used to have one of the best forehands on tour back in 2001-2003. I have no clue what happened to it. This guy cannot finish a single point by hitting a forehand winner. Nowadays, that's why he resorts to going to net to finish points off.

    I'm no Jimmy Connors or Brad Gilbert, so I'm not trying to coach or give Roddick tips. I'm just stating what I'm seeing nowadays. In fact, I'd love to see Roddick play like he did in the old days. Hit the powerful serve, and then crank the sharp inside-out forehand winner.

    Btw, Roddick HAS TO learn how to hit a down-the-line backhand. I have no idea how in the world a guy who has virtually no backhand is in the top 10 right now. But then, I don't think he'll stay in the top 10 for long.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
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  16. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Totally agree. He use to have a much more penetrating forehand. Seems like he is putting way too much air under the ball. And it's not like he uses acute angles like Nadal.
     
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  17. jetlee2k

    jetlee2k Banned

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    Roddick is in denial state. He does not realize his game suck badly. As in the second set, he walked pass Andreev and mumbling like "you made 2 unforced errors".. .. he expects his opponent just give him free points. There was one point that he hit a forehand cross court, Andreev was crambling to hook the forehand back and Roddick just slept there, did nothing or even try to get to the point. He just out of it. He expects his opponent to give the match for him. All of his loses, he came out and said he play great, OK.. or good.. or whatever but in reality, his game go down badly. His shots are too short or not deep enough to push his opponent back.. Roddick needs to fire his brother, all of his coach, get a brain transplant and re-hire Brad Gilbert for some mental toughness or game strategies.
     
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  18. Soundbyte

    Soundbyte Semi-Pro

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    I'll agree with those comments, only as part of the evolution of the game of tennis. I was just watching vintage clips from Sampras' 1990 US Open, and NBC listed the people whose serves cracked 120 mph. There were 4 people. Sampras, Stich, Becker, and Goran I believe. These days, every is adapting to the quicker, more powerful game. That means bigger groundies, bigger serves, etc. When Roddick was younger, he was like the Sampras in his prime. Young kid with a revolutionary good serve. As time goes on, it becomes old news. Not to say it's no longer as good, it just that opponents evolve with the gameplay.
     
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  19. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    I loved Roddick's old forehand. He had sort of a long takeback, but when he got into position, he could hit the ball with a scary amount of pace. He basically hit through opponents and his balls were really penetrating deep into the court. Like you said, nowadays, his forehand just produces floaters that sit up to be spanked by the opponent. And, it doesn't help either when you can't hit many angles. Maybe Roddick has gotten more consistent than before in exchange of a sucky forehand, however, isn't there a way of becoming consistent without getting rid of your major weapon?
     
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  20. mileslong

    mileslong Professional

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  21. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    You're right. I also think opponents evolve as time goes by. I remember when Roddick used to hit overwhelming amounts of aces past opponents. But, that's not as common these days. I think opponents are getting the hang of it as they constantly play Roddick and try to figure his tendencies and adapt to the speed of it. Competition is pretty fierce, so, in order to stay at the top, you have to evolve as well. That's why guys like Roger Federer are so succesful. He always has another gear on top of topgear. He's constantly evolving before his opponents do.

    I really like how Roddick has been trying to change from his power-baseliner style game to an all-courter style game these last few years. And, it's good to see him in the top 10 again; however, I think the days are numbered, unfortunately. Unless he improves his backhand, forehand, and whatever I mentioned earlier, I don't think he'll last long in the current position. The competition is just too fierce. I just don't think the new all-court style of Roddick is suited to him.
     
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  22. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    What is the technical change in Roddick's forehand. Is his grip different?

    He seems to be jammed more. His take back is shorter and closer to the body, which in some respects is a good thing, but he's really limiting it as a weapon.
     
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  23. Mr. Sean

    Mr. Sean Rookie

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    His forehand didnt have as much topspin as it does today. After contact roddicks racquet would loop as much as it does now. It was more of a right to left motion where as today after contact he has a huge loop.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=DbOal0dK72c

    In this video it clearly shows a difference between the forehand from 04 to the ugly present one. Skip to 1:44 shows some of the best forehands ever. Nice compact motion with less topspin.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=xB0B5knKFU0
     
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  24. KAZUKI

    KAZUKI New User

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    Is he still using an almost western grip ?
     
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  25. rwn

    rwn Semi-Pro

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    Roddick was in the final of the US Open and the semi-final of the Australian Open losing only against Federer. He lost in the first round of the French but Roddick always was and always will be crap on clay. I see no reason for Roddick to be worried. On the contrary, he lost early at Queens and Wimbledon last year so he can actually strengthen his third position on the world ranking. Higher than number 3 is not realistic. Federer and Nadal are simply a lot more talented. Physically and mentally.
     
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  26. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    You forgot mental toughness. Roddick never quits, like Blake did. Even if he is beating his head against the wall, doing all the wrong things, he gives it everything he's got. Man, Blake just mailed it in today. Makes you not want to root for him.
     
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  27. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    he won't be NO 3 any more once the FO is over. Davy will certainly overtake him.
     
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  28. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    Roddick's forehand was much better in 2003-2004 then it is now. He had a top 3 forehand in the game for sure then. Now I doubt it is even top 20 and it is his 2nd best shot. I have no idea how he is ranked as high as he is the way he is currently playing. The funny thing is he looked like was getting his mojo back last summer though. In Cincinnati and the U.S Open he was playing some great tennis again. Getting his ass handed him to him by both Fed and Nadal on hard courts early this year seems to have taken away all the confident he was starting to rebuild though.
     
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  29. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    Yeah I dont understand what is going on with his forehand now. It is just this spinny puffball alot of times. The way he used to hit it, I dont understand this at all.
     
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  30. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    Everything said about his forehand in this thread is also true of his second serve: lacks pace, lacks placement, lacks penetration, not half the shot it was five years ago.

    His second serve used to win him dozens of points outright in a match. Now, it's run-of-the-mill average, perhaps a little worse than that for its predictability.

    So: why are the FH and 2nd serve both so much less effective today than four-five years ago? Technique? Desire? Tactics? Fitness?
     
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  31. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    All of the above probably.
     
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  32. Forehand Forever

    Forehand Forever Professional

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    Two fans. Give the guy a break. He's made a Grand Slam every year since 2003.
     
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  33. Baghdatis72

    Baghdatis72 Hall of Fame

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    He taught him how to exit tournaments very early and how to drink beer from what I remember :lol:
     
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  34. tamaj13

    tamaj13 Rookie

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    Excellent point! I had the same question about his forehand. It is totally not the deadly forehand it used to be. Watching Roddick out there, he just looks clueless about how to play tennis. Unfortunately he is a ball-hitter rather than a tennis player. Perhaps he needs to do like Roger and cut loose from all the coaching and see if he can figure out how to play tennis on his own. Since Brad Gilbert, he hasn't looked like the player I thought he could be some time ago.

    Someone needs to sit him down and show him some tape and explain that simply hitting the serve hard isn't going to win him anything on clay. Even when he got it in yesterday Andreev didn't have much trouble returning it. He's a professional for crying out loud and he can't vary his serve? Gimme a break!
     
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  35. sapient007

    sapient007 Semi-Pro

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    IMO, Roddick should take some time off to really work his backhand and point construction before heading back to the tour. His game is simply getting embarrassed left and right. IF anything, he has only shown that his mental game , decision making ability and BH are all poor. I think he has the potential to be number 1 or 2. he really needs to do some soul searching and evolve his game to something a little more complete. We can all recall when michael jordan made his way back to the NBA, he realized that he wasn't the fastest, most athletic player so he took some time off to develop one of the deadliest fade aways the game has seen to be on the top again. Thats what roddick need to do, to figure out what his game is and actually develop tools around his weapons so opponents won't pick him apart as this tues.
     
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  36. tamaj13

    tamaj13 Rookie

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    Roddick sure looked like he mailed it in to me. They kept talking about Andreev's winners. Well half of those "winners" were due to Roddick not moving for the ball. It was pathetic! I kept wondering if the hamstring was bothering him, but then he would run for a ball and stretch in such a way that one couldn't do with a bad hammy. Roddick looked like a lost little boy out there yesterday. I didn't see past Blake's 2nd set, but he too just looked like a zombie out there. Neither Blake nor Roddick know what to do on a tennis court if they can't blast their opponents off the court. American tennis produces ball hitters, not tennis players. Tennis players have to bring physical, mental and emotional savvy to the courts, and the latter two seem to be missing in the top American male players.
     
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  37. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Connors changing Roddick's game results in Roddick coming the closest he's ever been to beating Federer and a VERY long time.


    Connors changing Roddick's game rockets him to #3 in the world.


    Connors changing Roddick's game takes Roddick to the finals of the U.S. Open, SF of the Australian, and alot of deep runs in other major tournaments.



    Roddick's forehand has never been that good, you guys overrate that damn thing. In 2003 Roddick DID have a huge forehand, but he had near 40+ unforced errors a damn match. At least the current Roddick has some kind of consistency. JCF had an "explosive" forehand, but it's nothing now that Nadal has come onto the scene.



    And what is this crap that Roddick's game is revolved around his serve. Isn't Federer's game revolved around his forehand? Or Nadal's? You play to your strengths. Of course Roddick is going to revolve his game around his serve if that is his strongest weapon. Isn't that what Pete Sampras did? Or Boris Becker? Goran? And Roddick DOES have weapons other then his serve, otherwise he'd be another Ivo Karlovic.



    Roddick has improved alot, is at the highest ranking in the world that can be possibly attained at this point, and everyone is still trashing him. It makes you wonder why Roddick gets irritated by fans so easily. No matter how much he does, everyone says he sucks.


    It's very hard for Roddick to go any higher when he has to compete against a guy who is possibly the greatest talent the world has ever seen, and against possibly the greatest clay courter of all time.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
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  38. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    That is why I said the early signs of the new coaching arrangement were very positive. Now things have tailed off again.

    Likely only temporarily. Even Davydenko or Djokovic could pass him here at this French Open. He will have a huge challenge to defend his summer hard court points. I hope he does well but it wont be easy. Last year he ended the year #6. He might be around that area again at years end this time.

    It hasnt done much for him since the Australian Open, and didnt do much for him to even be respectable the last times he played Federer and Nadal(on hard courts in the U.S).

    JCF's forehand and whole game are a shadow of his old self as well. I think that is a commonly known fact. There just isnt the interest in him as there is in Roddick, particularly in NA. Roddick's forehand in 2003 and 2004 was far superior to today. He was not as inconsistent on it as you are saying either.

    Federer's game revolves around his forehand, his serve, his return of serve, his movement, and his backhand. He wins points in alot of different ways, not just by blasting big forehands, even though his forehand is the best shot in the game and his best shot. He does not just rely on his forehand though.

    Nadal relies on his incredible movement and defensive skills first, his incredible mental game second, and maybe his forehand comes third. No way does he only rely on his forehand.

    Sampras and Becker were also 2 of the best volleyers of the 30 years. Sampras also had one of the best forehands, and was one of the best overall athletes.

    Yeah but Goran is recognized as a one-trick pony by most.

    It does not take alot to have more game outside the serve then Karlovic.


    People are hard on Roddick since they expect more of him. They see he has the capability to hit a much more punishing forehand then he currently is. He should not be tentupled, or whatever it is, by players like Andreev in forehand winners, even on clay. They know he has the ability to do alot of things better then he is now. He showed it even late last year. That is why people are hard on him. They know he can do more. Yes the #3 ranking is probably the highest realistic, until Nadal slows down a bit on clay or something, but that doesnt mean he is doing as well as people feel he can.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
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  39. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I felt for Roddick. He tried his best and just couldn't do it. The only thing I could think of while watching him was the old saying "Never change a winning game; but always change a losing one." Roddick hit the same ball all day long. I think he should have tried at least something different, try to bring the buy in some. He clearly was lost at net...
     
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  40. McStud

    McStud Rookie

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    Roddick really needs to look at this message that I wrote to him awhile back.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=97023

    Another thing that I think really hurts Roddick that I didn't really mention the message is his string. I think that the new poly strings are really hurting some players like Roddick. He is getting so much spin on the ball that he can't even flatten out a serve or a forehand if he tried. He used to serve more aces than he does now and he actually used to be able to hit forehand winners back in the day ie. 2003. I think that he is content on being in the top 10 for the rest of his life and making a few million a year, that's it.
     
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  41. Trainer

    Trainer Semi-Pro

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    All I know is he played like crap against Andreev, it was painful to watch. I lost most hope in seeing him as another great American tennis player. He got a slam, but he's been eclipsed by others in the game since, and I fear it will stay that way.
     
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  42. logansc

    logansc Professional

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    If anything he's taught him how to get beat worse. Yeah his backhand has never been fantastic and his volleys are about a D+ on a good day but Roddick is an agressive baseliner with a huge serve. Like one of the earlier posters said, Gilbert brought out the best in Andy's game and didn't try to change him so much. I watched him in NC during Davis Cup against an inspired Verdasco with the hammy injury, and he still beat him in straight sets on the hard courts by doing what he used to do...hanging around the baseline and ripping balls. Yeah it may not beat Fed at Wimbledon but last time I saw Andy play Fed with the "new" game plan he got ripped apart as bad as ever.
     
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  43. herosol

    herosol Professional

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    i dont think its the fact his FH has weakended.

    its more like. he just keeps hitting the net. jesus the guy just gets unforced errors everywhere. thats what happens when your throwing your entire body into your forehand shots. aggresiveness on the baseline but then unable to prevent the errors.
     
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  44. Mr. Sean

    Mr. Sean Rookie

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    Roddick can no longer stay 6 feet behind the baseline like he used to because his forehand isn't as penetrating or as deep. Thats why for awhile he was a sitting duck out there. I blame goldstein for changing his forehand into that ugly spinny shot he has now. I know goldstein got roddick to the 05 wimbie final but still Goldstein made roddick worse in the long run. I think roddick played better in the 04 final then the 05 anyways. And yes the reason why we are so hard on roddick is becasue we see what he he is capable of but yet hes not producing. If he played the way he did back in 03-04 i guarantee you he would be number two in the world. That forehand he used to have was his equity shot. Yeah he was a ball hitter and yes he made more unforced errors but the bottom line was that it won him more matches and it worked. I think roddicks new style today is just so hard to transition to especially when his body and movement arent even that good to begin with. Now roddick has to learn a new backhand, improve volleys, improve court intellect and set up points. Basically become an al court plaer which doesnt happen overnight and could possibly take 3-4 years to actually accomplish. Having less unforced errors doesnt always win matches at the pro level.
     
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  45. logansc

    logansc Professional

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    My thoughts exactly, but you worded it much better.
     
    #45
  46. jetlee2k

    jetlee2k Banned

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    I agree with McStud.. I play with PureDriveRoddick Plus with the new Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour for awhile. The string had too too much spin on it that produce less power on his shots. I then use BB Alu Power and the racquet became much more effective and power.

    At this stage of his career, Roddick does not need to change anything except for his head. He seems clueless outthere.. Just hard, harder & harder serve. The rest of his game going down. He got to have a more clever shots with less power. His second kick serve is lethal but just mostly power no good placement like other greats.
     
    #46
  47. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Good post. But who is Goldstein? That Dean guy? I thought his last name was Goldfine or something...
     
    #47
  48. logansc

    logansc Professional

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    You are correct, Dean Goldfine, not Goldstein.
     
    #48
  49. tintin

    tintin Professional

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    none of your damn business
    Andy Roddick was never a great mover first of all and never will.
    Fundamentals of tennis,and by that I mean basic volleys,using the whole court and not only staying on the baseline alone;using flat shots and learning to add spin to them and using them when it counts the most are not something you learn at 24-25.
    Defensive to offense and vice versa is thought at a yound age and not in your mid career.
    We've all seen how a few doubles matches have done wonders for Nadal's volleys and his one handed backhand but then again he is still young and was thought how to construct points from the get go and on clay which is the best way to teach a kid growing up.
    He is now being a whole lot more aggressive and taking the balls earlier than he actually did last year and his overall skills have improved.
    too late for Roddick imo
     
    #49
  50. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I found just the opposite - Pro Hurricane Tour has more power and less spin compared to BB, with BB strung 5 lbs less than the other.
     
    #50

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