Differences of pacific gut

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Wes_Loves_Dunlop, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    Hi, im really interested in trying gut strings.
    I was wondering what the difference was from lets say pacific prime, blue spiral, or the classic. Which gut has more spin, power, feel, etc.

    Also, how does Klip legend compare to pacific in general?
     
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  2. BorisBecker1872

    BorisBecker1872 New User

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    Klip is made in Australia and feels more "crisp" and should be more powerful than Pacific which is made in New Zealand offers less power but greater feel--all things being equal.

    Can't help you on the different Pacific brands but I think there is little differences.
     
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  3. Valjean

    Valjean Hall of Fame

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    In a playtest of six natural guts the USRSA did several years ago, Klip Legend was the least powerful. This is my feeling too, even though I don't feel Pacific Prime or Classic, say, is as powerful as even BDE's.
     
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  4. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Hi, I've tried all the Pacific natural guts and all the Klips except for Armour Pro and I've also used BDE Performance and Rallye and VS Team and Thermogut; just for reference.

    Pacific
    • Prime - most expensive, softest, and powerful string in the line. This string is ultra-comfortable and is the most cushioned hit in the line. You'll need to add 3 pounds to this string over a base gut like Classic.
    • Imperial (Blue Sprial) - very much like Prime, very comfortable, and just plain cool looking when in your frame. It's a real throwback. I don't know that there is a whole lot of difference in this string from Prime other than the cosmetic.
    • Tough Gut (formerly Tour) - this is less powerful and cushioned and has a firmer feel than Prime. I used this string in my Vilas' when I played with wood a few years ago. This string is smack dab in the middle of the line in terms of power/cushion.
    • Classic - my string of choice. Pacific advertises their gut as firmer which lets you string looser for more comfort. I have been using the 16 guage in this gut and stringing it at 61 with great results. This string feels great and while it has less power than the guts above, it is great on the arm and very responsive.
    Klip
    • Legend - comparable gut to Classic. I used Legend in my Cat 8's for a year or so. I found it to be a firm hit, like Classic. In my experience, it didn't retain its playing characteristics as long as Classic and frayed way more. Maybe it has less coating, but I thought it played well for 6 hours or so and then went dead; felt like it bottomed out.
    • Legend Uncoated - again Classic-like. This string definetly needs to be strung a little looser as it felt boardy when strung over 60.
    Pacific vs Klip
    Pacific's gauging is thinner than Klip's. In other words, Pacific's 16 is very much like Klip's 17 from a thickness perspective. No big deal, just if you like a thinner/thicker string you should know what you're ordering ahead of time.
    Klip tends to fray almost immediately. Pacific will notch, but doesn't fray or unravel until you're close to breaking it.
    Klip, IMO (and this is subjective) doesn't play as well as long as Pacific. Pacific retains its resiliency longer and feels better.

    With respect to:

    Spin
    Any gut is a step up from a multi in terms of spin. IMO, their are certainly the equal of poly in spin and beat the crap out of poly when comfort and arm safety are concerns. (I played poly for a bunch of years.) I don't think any one of the guts listed above has an advantage in spin production.

    Power
    From most to least:
    • Pacific Prime/VS Team
    • Pacific Blue Sprial/VS Thermogut
    • Pacific Tough Gut
    • Pacific Classic/Klip Legend/Klip Legend Uncoated
    Feel
    From most to least
    • Pacific Prime/Pacific Blue Sprial
    • VS Team
    • Pacific Tough Gut/VS Thermogut
    • Pacific Classic
    • Klip Legend/Klip Legend Uncoated
    Control

    All guts are great in this respect, you just have to find the right tension. Most folks don't have the $'s to play around a whole bunch with tension and gut, so you need to know what you prefer prior to using gut. The best way to do this is to string a premium multi. Initially, it will play close to gut and will give you an idea of what tension you're going to like.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  5. rogernext

    rogernext Banned

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    great writing! thankq.
     
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  6. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    Rabbit, I love you. no ****.
    Thanks for your very descriptive response.
    I think i will go with Pacific classic. I actually have played with a multi once, and it was a crappy one. I feel the need to experiment with natural gut because i love the feel of a ball sinking into the stringbed and also, i love to hit touch shots.
    I haven't broken a single poly yet, so im not entirely sure im a string breaker. Hopefully classic lasts me a while to be more economical than poly's,

    Would stringing at 67 in a AG 300 16x18 be reasonable? I need a good amount of spin for my strokes but would also like some more pop than I get with my current polys.
     
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  7. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    :) No problem at all.

    You are a wise as considerate young man...

    When you look at hour for hour on court, gut is really cheaper. It plays better, longer than any other string out there. The reputation gut has for enhancing your game and protecting your arm is unsurpassed.

    Wow...that sounds tight, but you don't mention your regular tension. Whatever you string a multi at would be a starting point. If you want to add power, you won't do that stringing tighter. I think gut, at any tension, is great for spin [and control and comfort and power].

    My only warning would be that you might have to spend enough for 2 or three sets before finding your right setup if you've never played with gut.

    I would also recommend that possibly you try Classic mains and a synthetic (Prince Synthetic Gut Original (not duracrap)) hybrid first. That will give you most of what you're wanting to experiment with and not break your bank this close to Christmas. Just a thought...

    good luck and if I can help any more, please don't hesitate to ask...
     
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  8. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    I cant believe I left out my current set up. My bad
    The set up I have now is Topspin Concept pure at 55 lbs. It feels a bit stiff so i would actually string it at 50 next time. I came down from 60.
    And thanks for the tip on the hybrid, I didnt even think of that.

    The only problem I would think of from gut, it if it is too overpowered. I could compensate for too little power, but too much power is my undoing.
     
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  9. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    55 to 67 seems a bit much to me

    string your frame with a multi first to get close to your end tension, then try gut. you can use Alpha Gut 2000, really cheap, not durable, but it will give you an indication of what your tension likes are
     
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  10. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    I ordered the pacific classic with a set of psg.
    When I hybrid it, should I string them at the same tension?
    Also, I will call TW to tell them to add alpha gut to my list
    Thanks
     
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  11. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, I would go with the same tension....when changing, use the KISS method...Keep It Simple, Stupid....

    ;)
     
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  12. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    A tougher Natty gut cross string in a full natty gut setup

    :confused:I play with VS 17 gut mains and VS´16 gut crosses in my 2 Bab Pure Storm Limited GT racquets and love this combo - but if I would continue to use full natty gut, but would like somthing a tiny bit stiffer - would keeping the VS 17 in the mains and changing to Pacific Tough Gut 16 or Pacific Classic 16 in the crosses do it :confused:

    I'm not looking to hybrid it with anything else but Natty gut - I already play with a hybrid of natty gut mains and CoPoly crosses in my 2 Bab PS Tour GT and love this, but would like to pålay with full natty gut in the Limited for extra feel and good tension and elasticity maintenance.

    Looking for some suggestions :)
     
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  13. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    Thanks rabbit.
    You've been a great help
     
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  14. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Rabbit,

    Thanks for this nice comparison chart.

    But one question: What is the distinction you are making between VS Team and VS Thermogut?

    Thermogut Technology is applied to both the Team (17g) and the Touch (16g).

    Or am I missing something?
     
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  15. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry, I was under the impression that Team was the 17 gauge version and Thermogut was their thicker versions.
     
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  16. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    Both VS TEAM 17 AND VS TOUCH (16 & 15L) have Thermogut tech coating on them.
    VS TEAM is just the thinnest gauge of the VS natural gut from BABOLAT.
     
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  17. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    My suspicions confirmed...
     
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  18. markwillplay

    markwillplay Professional

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    Rabbit..I have been playing with VS touch (16 gauge) and actually have a bed at 57 on my becker 11 mid. I have not struggled to control it so I think I would not like to go any stiffer. Would I be correct in thinking that the pacific classic could be a bit less powerful at 57? I love nat gut for the little extra power it provides on serves (as apposed to a cheap syn gut) but I do not like haveing to string above 60 lbs even with the softerst gut. I like lower tension if possible. If I am playing well at 57 with the VS touch...what would the classic feel like at same tension (sorry it took so long to ask that).
     
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  19. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, if you read the Pacific marketing stuff, they claim that their natural gut is stiffer and can be strung looser than other guts. I have found that VS is really powerful and softer. That's not a bad thing, it's just different. If you want a stiffer gut that you can string looser, Classic is a great alternative. Classic or Legend. I find Classic plays better and lasts longer.

    Pacific's Prime is really close IMO to VS. I string it about 3 - 5 pounds tighter than Classic. IMO, I think you could probably come down to 55 and be safe with Classic.
     
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  20. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    I currently am experimenting with the BB11 mid, and have two, one with full VS17 at 58#, and one with full Pac Classic 17 also at 58#.

    Having used both for a few matches now, VS definitely has more power and comfort; while the Pac Classic has a lil stiffer feel, slightly less pop but definitely a crispness to it that I do like. At first I did not like the Classic as compared to VS, but once I got used to it, they both play great... so for almost half the price I'm liking the Classic. Hope this helps.

    edit: to add, the Classic had a little break-in period it seems, while the VS plays as is right from the start. Or maybe this was just me getting accustomed to the Classic feel after getting used to the VS, as I had played on the VS stick for a few matches before using the Classic strung one, so I could compare my impressions a bit more accurately, and I didn't lock-in to the Classic-string one until I was 30-40 minutes into it in play time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
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  21. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    I also have tried this with great experience. VS mains with ToughGut crosses. Superb combo! Only saves you about $5 on the stringjob, but the ToughGut adds a nice crispness to the VS, and you still get the great VS mains feel! Win-win IMHO, actually, my favorite stringjob of all time in my PT's. Load up some string savers and it lasts me a good 16-24 hours or so of play time, depending on if I'm playing singles or doubles.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
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  22. markwillplay

    markwillplay Professional

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    gotcha...I assume that even theough the classic plays a bit stiffer, it is still great for the arm? I think I will try a set at 55 and see how I like it. I like the VS but it is sooo expensive. I do find it powerful and I notice it more on serve really. I have to work a little harder with a syn gut (really swinging out) to get the same pace on all my shots really. I sort of like that I can string syn gut lower and still control it but when I switch over to the vS bed, the free power and depth I get is really nice. I love that pocketing feel....just don't l;ike to spray the blocked returns off of really hard servers. Thanks for the info.
     
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  23. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Yep even the "stiff" guts will be better for your arm than anything else non-gut out there. In a way, the stiffer Pacific guts allow one to string lower than VS without sacrificing control. It's hard to put into words, but yea, any gut will be a great choice for your arm; but there is a definite tactile difference between brands. For the price/performance, Pacific Classic is hard to beat! I'll try the imperial spiral next, I'm curious how that compares between Classic and VS.
     
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  24. insiderman

    insiderman Rookie

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    but..........remember that 'stiff' in feel when stringing, is not always 'stiff' in playability - as the most current USRSA Lab tests show clearly that pacific is totally & a lot, more soft if performance - yup, the pacific (however they do it) does string-up 'tighter' and holds tension WAY better, so that might be what / why some comment being; 'stiffer'? Just a thought...
     
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  25. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Yea, it's funny you mention that, as I had originally bought Pacific Tough 16L based on the fact it was the "least stiff" ever on the list. Then during play, it plays much stiffer/crisper in its "on-court feel" than VS, BDE, or even Unifibre (the only other ones I've played). But yea, my comments were based on the feel once strung, not packaged, because you are right on that you can't judge a string by it's "cover" (by cover i mean its feel when stringing OR even its lab data).
     
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  26. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    JT,
    Do you string the VS mains with ToughGut crosses at the same tension? I'd like the crispness that ToughGut would add, but I'm concerned that it may add too much given that it's noticeably stiffer.

    Also, my experience with VS gut is that its feel is pretty much the same after the first 24-48 hours after stringing, i.e., no real break-in period. Does the Pacific gut have some break-in period where it's stiffer for a certain number of hours of play and then becomes less stiff?

    Thanks.
     
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  27. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    In a nutshell, I string most of my setups with the crosses 1 lb higher than mains, to account for friction, etc. and experience no adverse frame warping.

    Even with VS mains, PacTG cross, I still did the same. My observations:

    VSmains/PTGcross: no break-in period just like full VS. Hits beautifully from the start, and plays great til it broke (for me ~16hrs of on-court time). To me, this indicated how much the mains dominate your overall feel. The PTG cross added just enough crispness to the stringbed to amp control without the adverse effect of losing the pocketing feel that will happen when you cross gut with synthetic or polys.

    Full PTG setup: First 1.5 hours were noticeably stiffer than other gut setups, and I was a bit worried at first, as it had almost a plasticky feel. However, after 1 match of doubles, followed by 2 nights of not playing, the next few matches played great. String starts to fray a bit after just a few hours, and broke around hour 11-12. Overall feel is a crisp version of VS with a little less power and reduced touch at net.

    I would prefer PTG for baselining and VS for all-court play/doubles. The hybriding of these guts is a subtle change since you still have full gut, but I prefer the hybrid so I can use the same sticks for singles and dubs. The difference between full VS and my hybrid is subtle, while the difference between the hybrid and full PTG was much more noticeable.
     
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  28. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    ^^^^^

    Thanks very much for your very comprehensive response -- it's given me a much better sense of the differences between VS and PTG, and how the hybrid will feel. Much appreciated!

    (I'll report back on how the hybrid works for me.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
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  29. mctennis

    mctennis Hall of Fame

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    Rabbitt, great review on the strings.
     
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  30. shaysrebelII

    shaysrebelII Semi-Pro

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    +1, now I wanna try some gut!
     
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  31. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks!...
     
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  32. karophiteblu

    karophiteblu Semi-Pro

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    Rabbit, I must thank you a LOT on your description of the strings. :D i currently have VS thermogut touch 16 on main at 57 and luxilon Alu power rough on the cross at 55. would you think the feel would increase if i get the blue spiral on the mains next?

    Thanks!!
     
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  33. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    You're very welcome. :)

    If you're looking for a high end gut with plenty of power and feel, you can't go wrong with Imperial. Basically, I think it's the same grade of gut as Prime and Prime is, IMO, better feeling than VS. It transmits more feel and is more powerful. I'm going to try a full set next time I string.

    Please let me know how it works out for you.
     
    #33
  34. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    Pacific Classic vs Tough Gut

    I used Pacific Classic 16g for a few months and loved it as a gut/poly setup. Thought it was soft and responsive, but after tring Tough Gut, Classic def felt much firmer. I have 2 sticks right now strung a tough gut hybrid w/ polyforce:
    1) Tough Gut/Polyforce at 56/54--this setup just feels amazing!! So soft and comfy. Really feels like a firm multi w/ unreal ball pocketing and spin. The stiffness rating on TG is only around 85!!!!!! That coupled with the firm poly is a wonderful combination of pop, spin and feel. I currently have about 7hrs on this setup and just recently installed about 7-8 stringsavers at some notching spots--looking good!

    2) Polyfoce/Tough Gut at 55/58--just got this reverse setup strung yesterday so will have my first hit tonight with it. But after hitting some balls against the garage last evening it feels awesome!! Looking for a little more control/bite over the gut mains. Will hit tonight and let you know thoughts.:)
     
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  35. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Hi Rabbit: I normally hit with all VS and every so often I will put the Imperial in one of my racquets. Although very comparable, it does feel a little softer than the VS strung at the same tension and same racquet. I actually like them both, but I normally go back to the VS just to keep the strings consistant, so I am not always changing something, as I have one racquet that gets its strings changed out to a different string weekly just to try something different, so I like to keep the normal racquets consistant.
    Imperial is a good gut string, and strings up easily as well.
     
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  36. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Yep, when I played the Wilson 90, I used VS 16 strung at 58. There is certainly nothing wrong with VS and had I been a better user of the Wilson 90, I'd probably have enjoyed it even more! It is very consistent, and I've never had an issue with premature breakage or early loss of playability.

    But I've always been a fan of Pacific since the old gold colored string that McEnroe used. I've related this on the boards before, but somebody in the back of Tennis Magazine had the old gold colored gut on sale for $10/set way back. I rounded up some funds and bought a boat load of it. I strung it in my ProStaffs and loved it. That was and is the coolest string ever. I wish Pacific would bring it back.

    Then Pacific went away....

    Fast forward back to the future and when I played the Vilas for a year, all of them were strung with Pacific gut. Since they've fixed their distribution, I am sold on their product. I re-discovered gut as a full-time string with the Dunlop AG100. Just typing this, it's funny that I used it in smaller racquets on a consistent basis. But going back to the C10, I've found gut strung at a decent tension to be wonderful for my arm, my game, and a great compliment to the C10.

    The debate now is whether to hybrid or not. I enjoy being 'old school' with an all-gut stringbed. From an aesthetic standpoint, there is nothing better looking to me than a two-knot job with both knots tied off on crosses. I also very much enjoy the feel of gut now. And, I think I'm ready to go a little softer on the stringbed with Imperial full time. It is fun again... :)

    BTW....I always enjoy your posts, and find your insights and tips very interesting. You are definitely an asset to the boards...
     
    #36
  37. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    Thx for the info.
     
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  38. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Imperial blue spiral

    What is the max tension on this you've had success with or know of, Rabbit? The packaging says the Prime can be strung Extra High, so I'm thinking of trying it around 64-66? I liked VS around 58-60, as well as Classic at that range, but also could go for a bit tighter to start, since I can typically get 16-24 hours out of a full gut using my dense patterned racquet (but prefer the feel of them when fresh), using string savers once my guts start to fray, so I'm thinking of starting a few higher than normal so that once it levels off, it will be right in my preferred range (upper 50s).
     
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  39. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I have strung Imperial at 60. I string Classic at 61, I don't think you should have a problem.
     
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  40. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    I have strung Imperial at 64 lbs. for my Head OS racquets, and 61 lbs. for my MP racquets.
     
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  41. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    Ive strung classic at 69 lbs
     
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  42. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Hey Rabbit, curious where BDE Rallye would fit in your power & feel spectrums as compared to VS, Pacific & Klip? I have 4 sets of 15L Rallye I purchased for a great price right before they went out of business, and haven't gotten around to using it yet, but will soon and am looking for a good tension recommendation as compared to PacClassic, ToughGut & VS Touch. I've heard it's more similar to VS than the others, but the 15L is going to throw me for a loop, i'm sure.

    thanks
     
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  43. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    BDE, IMO, is a little softer than Classic, and very close to Tough. If you have 15L, string it +3 pounds whatever your tension is now and you should be fine. :)
     
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  44. 2handsbothsides

    2handsbothsides Semi-Pro

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    Rabbit...what gut currently available in your opinion comes closest to BDE Performance? Error on the soft side. I really liked BDE Performance and used it for many years. I gave Classic an extensive try at progressively lower tensions and it is just too stiff for my liking. Hopefully its not VS as I just wont pay $43 per set!
     
    #44
  45. bsandy

    bsandy Hall of Fame

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    Don't quote me on this, but Gamma Natural Gut may very well be BDE.

    . . . Bud
     
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  46. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    IMO, Pacific Tough Gut is closest. Prime is even softer, almost buttery in feel. If you opt for Tough, you can still string it looser than BDE. Another option is the Imperial or Blue Sprial which is Tough Gut with a strand of Prime (blue). It plays really well and is not as stiff as Classic. Outside Pacific, VS or Tonic is going to be your best bet.

    BTW, I've tried Gamma NG and was thoroughly underwhelmed.
     
    #46
  47. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Rabbit, thanks again for all the great advice. My kevlar honeymoon is over and I'm back to full guts again. There really is no other string that has all the benefits of gut once you find the right tension, it's hard to find any downsides really.

    Last question for now, would Klip's 18g be similar to Pacific's 17g, as you noted Pacific's gauges tend to be slightly thinner than Klip? I'm looking for the thinnest gut I can find, to try out next.
     
    #47
  48. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    From a gauge perspective, yes. I think Klip's 18 is 1.20mm and Pacific's Classic 17 is 1.24mm.

    From a playability perspective, I find Classic to have more play. Klip seemed to get really boardy. I just like Classic better.
     
    #48
  49. wrxtotoro

    wrxtotoro Rookie

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    The last pack of Pacific Classic 17 I used was 1.20 mm. But the Toughgut 17 do not have any measurement on the package.
     
    #49
  50. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^
    There ya go! :)

    One man's 18 is another man's 17
     
    #50

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