Discovered a new pro stroke

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by sureshs, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Maybe it is just new to me hehehe.

    I noticed that many male pros are hitting topspin with sort of an open face. Most club players equate top spin to a closed face. The top spin I am talking about can be seen clearly in inside-out FHs, but nowadays I am seeing it in many different situations. You go low to high on the ball - but in a scooping out fashion, as if it is an underhand serve (or for those familiar with table tennis, a top-spin serve). I used to think it was a wimpy shot not to be used in tennis, but I am seeing it being used extensively in DTL, UTL and down the middle shots (but not in crosscourt shots obviously). I am trying to incorporate it into my game.
     
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  2. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Based on the title, I thought you were going to tell us what you and your girlfriend were up to last night.
     
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  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Good luck...
    I still close the face on all topspin forehands and backhands, and hit great inside out lefty forehands, both DTL and shortangled CC.
     
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  4. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    You dont really scoop the ball. Only djokovic does that on his bh which is weird, but normally, you dont scoop the ball.
    Go try to learn a new pro stroke
     
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  5. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    What does it mean "scoop the ball"? Can you post a clip of Djokovic doing that?
     
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  6. KiNG

    KiNG Rookie

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    As usual you always mention how great you play in almost all your posts. No offense but I wish I can see you play one day. You'd be saying you are now too old or injuried or something but I'm still very interested please tape yourself!! :)
     
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  7. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

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    What pros do you feel are using this open faced topspin shot ??

    That sure would help understanding what you are talking about.
     
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  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    King...
    I"m a "great" falling 4.0 player. Just think about that and how "great" that is.
    I was commenting on the thread from OP. If your racketface is OPEN, meaning pointing slightly to the sky, you cannot swing fast, hit hard, and keep the ball close to the net and IN the court.
    All my topspin shots are closed faced.
    All my flat shots are pretty close to vertical faced.
    All my slices are hit with an open face.
    That's what I was replying.
    And a "falling" 4.0 is no great shakes.
     
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  9. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Many of them - Roddick for one. Also Fed.

    I think my use of "scoop" created confusion. I meant a low to high movement of the ball, but not with closed face. I don't know how to describe it. How would to put topspin in an underhand serve? It is like that.

    BTW, it is also accompanied usually with some sidespin.

    I observed that club players get jammed by to-the-body balls because they don't have time to move over and hit a closed topspin stroke. In the same situation, the pros are hitting from close to the body with the kind of stroke that I am talking about.
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I hit with OPEN STANCES, for topspin sometimes.
    I never hit with an open face (hitting side facing upwards at moment of impact with the ball) to hit topspin shots.
    OTOH, I"m a lowly 4.0 and losing more every time I play.
     
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  11. cxw0106

    cxw0106 Rookie

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    It's probably Windshield Wiper forehand.
     
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  12. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    we all love you mr LEE, just don't hang out too much on the beach, there is a lot of gangs out there now a day.
     
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  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    No............
     
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  14. mrcalon

    mrcalon Rookie

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    what do you mean by open face? open during the backswing, or at impact?
    what affect does this technique adjustment have on ball trajectory?
     
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  15. Cross-court

    Cross-court Rookie

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    I'm pretty sure you have to "scoop" and/or hit the ball with an open face when it's a low ball. How on earth are you going to hit a low ball with a closed racket face.
     
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  16. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    He is most definitely talking about the windshield wiper forehand where you're comping up and across the back of the ball from an angle, but the angle happens to be such that when you swing, it goes from 6-12 on the back of the ball, giving the illusion of an open face at contact. You can't hit the WW forehand with the "closed face" technique well because that relies on the upward momentum of the stroke. These names are ambiguous though, because all racquet faces are slightly closed on impact anyway if you're imparting topspin. If they weren't, you would be hitting a flat ball.
     
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  17. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    #17
  18. KiNG

    KiNG Rookie

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    The OP is most definitely talking about Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert.
     
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  19. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

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    Hitting topspin with an open face is perfectly normal.
    Nothing unusual about it at all.
    Its called pronation [open to closed = forearm CCW rotation .

    For a low ball you swing up and then wipe across the body.
    For a high ball you hit more out front and wipe across it.

    Oscar Wegner shows this as the basic FH motion.
     
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  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Good god, I want a poster of 2:29 in that video I posted. That **** just looks like art.
     
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  21. KiNG

    KiNG Rookie

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    Yeah you can. I pretty much hit all my topspin shots with a closed racquet face, high or low ball. But I came to realize that you can only do it with extreme head speed or with a racquet with VERY open string pattern at VERY low tension. Try it its fun!!

    Next time when you break a string or two, try hitting a very low skidding ball with a closed racquet face. It will clear the net with great trajectory!! Thats the idea..
     
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  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Nadal does it very well.
     
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  23. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Impact.

    The trajectory is slightly upwards and sideways and the ball does not come down as sharply as in closed face topspin.
     
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  24. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I just described that verbatim. It's the WW forehand.
     
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  25. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is it. You read my mind.
     
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  26. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Hah beat me by a second!
     
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  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Isn't WW when a massive low to high across the body swipe of the ball with the ball relatively far from the body and to the side of it? I am talking about more of an inside-out action from closer to the body in line with it.
     
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  28. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    No pro has an open racquet face on a normal groundstroke. They will either have a neutral or closed racquet face. I want you to post a pic/video of a man on the pro tour hitting an open-faced topspin forehand/backhand that ISN'T a lob.
     
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  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yeah neutral is probably the right term.

    I searched for videos but couldn't find one - reason being it is not as glamorous as the closed face topspin. But it is routinely hit by the pros.
     
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  30. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Look at the Federer video I posted: that's what he's describing.
     
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  31. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Around 50 seconds, yes.
     
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  32. salsainglesa

    salsainglesa Semi-Pro

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    open raquet topsin is used in a very specific situation or in a specific tactic, but the incoming ball must be falling steeply, so its used against oponents that put a good deal of topspin on the ball or if you are waiting for the ball deep on thecourt as courtclay specialists do...

    When you have an open raquet face, its in your best interest to impart lots of topspinto theball, and little force, since a lot of the pop of the ball comes from gravity when it falls down steeply to the ground...Let the ball bounce of the strings
     
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  33. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    If you open your face at all you get a floaty kinda ball IMHO. I haven't seen any pros doing this.
     
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  34. defrule

    defrule Professional

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    I do it sometimes, low balls I want to scoop up especially on the backhand. Neutral face does work but I usually want to loop is back deeper so you kind scoop and swipe the ball for topspin to bring it down.

    Again on a short but low ball which I want to scoop up over the net I do open the face up and try to spin the ball down.

    -----

    In table tennis opening the face is more apparant, when the opponent backspins the ball a lot then trying closed face or neutral face will cause the ball to shoot downwards to the net. You can slice it back or in my case I just scoop it up with a slightly open face.
     
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  35. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    I have to disagree with the premise of this thread. I don't see Fed hitting with an open face in any of the fh's in that video. At impact, even the 50 second mark fh, his racket face is either slightly closed or neutral and closing.

    Fed's fh is great because he hits it relatively flat compared to the full western grippers like Nadal whose fh's have a drastic low to high path. Fed's fh is relatively flat but he still uses the WW motion to impart topspin and juice up the racket head speed. His fh is a model to emulate.

    If one swings up, low to high abruptly, even with an somewhat open face, topspin should result but the ball will tend to fly on you. The only time I've seen anyone purposely hit a fh with an open face is when clay courters cut an underspin fh chop shot with a high to low stroke just to get the ball back and buy some time when they are stretched out. Or, a fh drop shot.

    Even pros mis-hit and mis-time balls occasionally. If Fed takes a ball late, eg., earlier in his swing than usual, or out of his normal strike zone, he may not have yet closed the racket face as much as he would normally. That isn't by design. Even at his level, every stroke isn't going to be picture perfect.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
    #35
  36. salsainglesa

    salsainglesa Semi-Pro

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    of course, and can you feel how theball purely bounces of your string bed?
     
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  37. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

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    This is just NOT true.
    On the Backhand, Guga, Gaudio, Sela, Almagro and Sanchez-Navarro all fan open the face before beginning the forward swing.
     
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  38. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ The OP is talking about being open at contact. The entire take back and forward sequence might feature open to close to open again. That doesn't really matter though. At contact the face is almost always neutral or closed, IMHO. I don't see the open face in that video. I think once again the OP is offbase.
     
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  39. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    AT CONTACT is what is important here. Don't matter if the racket faces anywhere else during prep and takeback.
    It IS possible to hit openfaced topspin, if you're a pusher who hits weak topspin shots from, as said, waaaay behind the baseline.
    I hope NONE of you own up to being a weak baseliner hitting from waaay behind the baseline.
     
    #39
  40. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Thank you.
     
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  41. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    I don't think many players use that strategy on purpose. Plenty of mistake hits result from it though - opening your racquet face is a common mechanical flaw. I think it happens most if your late on the ball.

    Pete
     
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  42. Cross-court

    Cross-court Rookie

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    What match was that when he hits that winner at 0:42???

    There is no 2:29 in the video you posted. It's only 1:52 long.
     
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