Distinctions and Differences: The observations of 3.0 bounding to 4.0

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Aurellian, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Executive Summary: There is no substitution for hitting a deep ball (of whatever pace), executing crisp well angled volleys, and having a 2nd serve that drops within the box > 80% of time. Strategy begins to rear its head and players have the ability to assess and attack an opponent’s weakness. Techniques that work at the <4.0 level do not suffice when playing 4.0 and above.

    Background: I took up tennis about 18 months ago in Central and Southwest Asia and have recently been playing 3.0 tournaments with a large measure of success. I am a former college football player within ten years of graduation and am in good but not excellent shape. I have well above average upper body strength and am very fast and fairly quick. I take lessons twice a week with a former touring pro and hit with another 3.0 once a week.

    My coach recently told me to try 4.0 so I did and this is what I observed: you have to hit the ball deep. Depth is more important than pace as any short sitter will be likely be a victory for the opponent. Sloppily executed dinks to corners---which has propelled me to a 90% win rate at the 3.0 level—resulted in failure as opponents have the ability to close and direct a short ball away from you.

    Poorly placed floating lobs over the backhand shoulder are normally money shots for me; at 4.0 they were volleyed for victory calmly and confidently.
    The players may not beat you with winners, but they can hit the ball back over the net largely error free. The amount of free points decreases aside from the occasional shank and double fault.

    Strategy become much more important. I believe that below 4.0 it’s of tertiary import at best. Above 4.0 it is of secondary or primary relevance. E.G.; My 2nd round opponent knew that I had a winning forehand and could run; thus, he sliced to my backhand VIRTUALLY EVERY SHOT. The result was either an unforced error by me or a short ball which he put away. A 3.5 player may very well recognize a weakness, but their ability to slice to a backhand consistently is very questionable.

    A legit second serve is needed. I have a 105-110 Mph first serve but a tap in second serve that barely floats over the net. Some 3.5s and 3.0s can slam these lofty 2nd serves for winners but surprisingly many can’t. The 4.0s normally get a quick free point off this.

    The players can angle volleys off the court. Not much more to say re this.

    Technique is very important. Normally when I play I get a few athletic looking plays that are high on style points. Against the 4.0 player I did not have a chance to execute any diving switch hand tap winners or jumping smashes into the next court. Being out of position spelled defeat; no amount of cool looking body contortions can serve as savior.

    Takeaways: I have a long way to go on my tennis journey. I need to learn a slice and a dtl backhand. Patience must be acquired. One needs a real 4.0/4.5 to hit with as you can’t get better playing with anyone below this level; it actually makes one worse, as lots of victories from a BS technique provides a false sense of satisfaction.

    Positives: I went one and one and lost to a more experienced borderline 4.5 player in my first ever 4.0 tournament. My opponent lost in the semifinals in a close tie breaker. I possess a real weapon and my serve is largely unreturnable at the 4.0 level. At one point I hit 5 serves in a row for four aces. I was rarely aced and can block back kick serves and fast flat serves deep.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
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  2. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    You need to learn that < means less than and > means greater than.
     
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  3. amorris525

    amorris525 Rookie

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    ???? Where did he mess that up?
     
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  4. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    Quite a reasonable and introspective analysis.

    What most on this board don't realize is that a similar analysis could be made of 4.0 vs 5.0 tennis and that there are two or three similar levels above 5.0 before you get to the pros.
     
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  5. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    Definitely agree with some of these points...
    Second serve...without a legitimate second serve you will probably get killed in the 4.0 level...you need to be at least able to spin it in.

    Consistency- most 3.5 and below have a glaring weakness as well as inconsistency. I had a three ball rule when I played league 3.5 players...I will win the point if I can hit 3 balls back, because the majority of players may hit hard, but cannot get the ball back consistently.

    Strategy- 4.0 is where you start to see strategy...I think that the higher levels are where strategy develops.

    Variety- you should be able to mix it up a bit at the 4.0 level. Some topspin, some flat shots, some slice, some volleys. Slice serve, topspin serve, serve placement...these are things to start thinking about.

    The most consistent problem of recreational level players that I have seen is inconsistency, weak second serve, no backhand.

    4.0 could be a difficult level for someone 18 months into tennis to play...There are plenty of places in the USA where 4.0 is basically the highest played level other than open. You can get players who have 20-30 years experience including college hitting in these levels...When I played more seriously I competed in some open level events and regularly played 4.0.
     
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  6. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Yes, I think that 4.0 represents the climax of many peoples' tennis. It's good tennis and you can be a 4.0 with 15 years of tennis and in decent shape.

    I think that anyone can become a 4.0 if they work hard enough.

    I think above 4.0 you have to be somewhat of athlete and/or have some +s about your game. I could be wrong, but simply being consistent with no weapons can yield a solid 4.0 player.

    Nobody really peaks at 3.5 or 3.0.
     
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  7. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    Lots of people peak at 3.5 and 3.0 .... they probably do not need to, but they do
     
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  8. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    The distinctions really sharpen when you skip an entire level! The stuff that works for me at 3.0 does not at 4.0.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
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  9. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    But it's due to lack of effort or lack of time, not ability.

    Everyone has 4.0 ability within them that is waiting to come out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
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  10. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    It was edited
     
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  11. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    Aurellian, what's your 1st serve percentage? 105-110mph serve is crazy good, even at 5.0 level. However, I suspect, you're just smacking the ball with very poor placement, and low overall percentage. I also suspect you're overestimating your serve speed, but whatever, just make sure you're not double faulting more than a few times in a set, and that your second serve either has more pace/kick or slice/low bounce. You don't really need a huge serve to get to 4.0 level, 70-80mph will do just fine, you just need to improve consistency and take care of any glaring weakness (like returning slices to your backhand).

    Since you're in good shape and played sports, getting to 4.0 level with lessons and regular practice won't be a problem. I'd say 1-2yrs.
     
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  12. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Not buying the first serve speed.

    Still . . . You should know that 3.0/3.5 guys who can knock the fuzz off the ball for the first serve but hit puff ball second serves are a dime a dozen. Not special at all.

    Now, a 3.0/3.5 guy who can hit one kind of spin serve that goes in consistently with some decent placement will be worth his weight in gold.
     
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  13. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    I can hit a hard serve ... however, anymore I rarely do. The fact of the matter is that as I evolved from a newby to a 4.5 as I focused on control and placement and forgot about hitting it hard. The better I have gotten, the softer I hit the ball.
     
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  14. Velvet Ga el

    Velvet Ga el Rookie

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    Sounds familiar to something I read in your other thread.

    The second guy you played (Carlton) is a legit 4.0, though he's mostly a doubles player; not sure what to make of the first guy because he wasn't rated at all and got blasted by the other 4.0 he played in the consolation match.

    Now, as I've been imploring you, you do have a true comparison point for your game. When your game gets good enough to compete with the second guy you played, you'll know you're in the neighborhood of a high 3.5/low 4.0 singles player or a solid to high 4.0 doubles player.

    I do. I've seen the OP play and he's a strong guy who takes a big cut at the serve. He easily has the strength to get it in the 110-115 range (yes, I've been to numerous pro tournaments, including Indian Wells, and I've charted matches specifically focusing on serve speed). If he got hot on a good service day and could get it in four or five straight points, I could see him hitting four aces.

    The problem, though, is that by going big so often, it leaves him relying a ton on that second serve. And that makes him a sitting duck at the 4.0 level.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
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  15. josofo

    josofo Semi-Pro

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    in my area the jump between 3.0 an 4.0 would be rather gigantic. you would think a 3.0 didn't know how to play.
     
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  16. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I agree with your position but I believe that we have to use the tools that the good lord has given us.

    Some people will beat you with guile, others with grit, some with the mind, others with speed, and some with raw power.

    I agree that a 4.0 should be able to aim the serve to thirds if not quadrants and have a mix of serves. However, if one can get the ball in the box without it being returned does it not serve the same purpose as a precisely placed serve?

    My first serve percent ranges between 40% - 60%. Of that 50%, about half of those the opponent doesn't put a racket on it; the other 25% the ball is over hit; and the 25% that does comes over the net lands very shallow or floats back. Occasionally, like 1 out 20/25 it comes back to me as a clean winner but I think it's more luck than skill.

    One thing I notice is that it peaks in the 2nd set and goes downhill from there. If had something else in my pocket I would be a much more competitive.

    That's why I can hang with (and sometimes beat) 4.5s in one set at the club but get thoroughly beaten in the longer matches.

    I just don't think that players routinely see fast serves at the 3.0 - 5.0 level.

    But one needs more than a serve to be good tennis player.

    Thank you for your post. How long did it take you to get to 4.0?
     
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  17. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    It was huge. almost a completely different game. I had a goal to win one match in a 4.0 tournament. After that was completed I viewed it as more of a learning exercise than a competitive foray.

    There is no shame in loosing to a player with 15 years experience who moved well who the line judge said was a 4.5 player on good day.

    Such losses make one realize how far one has to go.
     
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  18. tennixpl

    tennixpl Rookie

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    yes a big jump

    My 2 cents

    at 3.5 you start to get fewer cheap points which you can rely on at 3.0, in 3.0 just get the ball back and you can win, at 3.0 any rally that last more than 4 strokes is rare. maybe a 3.0 has a weapon, usually a forehand, a big serve, or great fitness, usually not more than one if they do they also have a glaring weakness that overwhelms them

    at 3.5 you get that ability to rally for 10 balls regularly so cheapo points are rarer, points will be ended by an error generally but they will start to be bc you were moving your opponent and making them try too much and you pull an error out of them, balls to the middle of the court will be returned, not hit out. Each player probably has 2-3 attack able elements to their game but solid or good elsewhere.

    from 3.5-4.0 it is point construction and ability to set yourself up for winners and not just wait for the opportunity. no real weaknesses but not necessarily a strength everywhere. if they have a weakness they also have a away to avoid letting it hurt them except by a better player.


    like OP i have a good serve (spin, placement, and speed) and decent forehand, good fitness, decent volleys, but a weak backhand and awful footwork, and some **** poor decision making half the time. So i can hang with a 3.5 but anytime they toughen up and become a "pusher" they will beat me. i can't yet put it all together, and such a thing puts a ton of pressure on the serve, and over a few sets it will break down and that 3.5 will get the break.

    unless serving awesome a 4.0 would be nice to let me get more than a game or two.........until i get better
     
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  19. buruan

    buruan New User

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    You are an interesting read Aurellian.
    Either you are pulling the wool over our collective eyes and are doing a great job of trolling, or you are genuinely new to the game and trying to improve.

    You are claiming the 110mph serve with 50% here, whereas in another post someone who saw you has it at 20%.

    There are fast servers at 3.0, few and far between, but they exist.
    But there is no way 3.0 can HANG with a 4.5, not for a set, not for a game. Maybe a single point if the serve is a legit 110mph flat serve and has a lucky placement.

    My background is similar to yours, Athlete in my youth, Decathlon, tall guy, big serve. I can hit 110, but itll never go in.

    You know what got me to 4.0?
    Abandoning the flat serve entirely, I developed a spin with placement on both sides of the box, and a kicker for a second serve.

    This took me a time to develop, so other aspects of my game improved along the line, but the mindset of taking the testosterone out of the game was my biggest hurdle.
    Hit is where you want to hit to, not as hard as you want to hid to.
     
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  20. IA-SteveB

    IA-SteveB Professional

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    You've got that right. I see this a lot in club league where most are 3.5 to 4.0 players. There are a lot of 3.5 guys that can hit a fast first serve (less mph than a typical TT serve) but the first serve % is so low that it really doesn't matter much. There are a few who have similar first and second serves and they always do well. You don't get a chance to move up in the court and smash the puff ball.
     
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  21. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    You need to work on your footwork and start running around your backhand.

    I think you are overestimating the ability of a 3.5. If you can hit the ball back 4 time my guess is that you will win 75% of the points

    Your decisionmaking will improve with more match play. If you are ever in the Vegas area or Cambidge, MA look me up and I will take a break from the heat and the books and hang some breadsticks on ya!!!
     
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  22. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    What is your opinion on the two first serve strategy?

    I think there are few people below the 5.0 level that hit serves above 100mph routinely.

    I think that fast at the 3.5 to 4.0 level is 80...maybe 85.... my guess is 90 percent of the serves 4.5 and below are below 90 mph.

    Fast, strong, hard, rich, etc are all relative terms...
     
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  23. IA-SteveB

    IA-SteveB Professional

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    I am no expert, but I will give an opinion. I really think people are more successful at that level of tennis if they have a consistent kick serve. Players see so much of a flat first serve, Cinder-fella second serve and they don't see much spin. Some 3-3.5 players don't handle spin well, so if you can deliver a troublesome serve in both first or second serve, you are doing well. I used to be a "crush it" first serve guy but I changed that method and have had more success since. I will never serve even close to 100mph even with the Talk Tennis inflation so I adjusted my methodology.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
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  24. DirtBaller4

    DirtBaller4 Rookie

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    Location, location, location. I am a 4.0 doubles player but rarely ever played singles til this year and I am playing a lot of 3.5 and 4.0 singles.

    Up here in the NYC area the field of 3.5-4.0 players is VERY deep. So climbing the ladder from 3.5 to 4.0 has proven to be much more difficult than I had previously expected.

    I also used to have a big flat first serve, but I have noticed I can get a lot more easy points spinning a serve to a back hand or cutting the ball out wide to the deuce court.

    This also conserves a lot of energy, which comes in handy on tournament days when your playing 2 or 3 matches.

    It's a game of percentages and as you progress into 3.5 and 4.0, 50% ain't gonna cut it no matter how fast you serve.
     
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  25. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Hi,

    Yes, it is important to develop a diversity of serves.

    Tennis is an individual sport and all of us have different skill sets and strengths.

    I believe if one wants to become a servebot and bang 125 mph serves at the rec level so be it. This is a very boring way of playing tennis but it will get one lots of Ws.

    Velvet is wonderful chap and I respect what he writes. Unfortunately, he underestimates me. When I beat the 4.5 he just played I was lucky, but when he beat him it was skill. He may very well be right; likely he is.

    He saw me bored and cold playing in a 3.0 tournament where I was experimenting with a new serve grip. I use a hammer grip normally and switched to the one the coaches told me to use. i had a hard time getting used to that grip and said the hell with it about three weeks ago and decided to dance with the lady that brought me. Maybe in the long run it will ****** my growth, but it feels awkward and less powerful so I am finished with it.

    The coaches say you can't hit a flat serve unless you are 6 ft 2 or above. I think this is baloney.

    Can anyone say why the pros say this?

    I am new to the game trying to find the appropriate level of competition.

    The serve is NOW about 50% (and higher when I bounce the ball before hitting it.)

    The reason why it is now about 50% is because I practice it and learned not to go 100%. I have found that 85-90% is still over a 100 and gets me the exact same results.

    I also aim it now instead of just hitting the ball.

    Next year I will learn a kick serve.
     
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  26. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I agree that it is important to conserve energy when playing six or more sets on a given day.

    I think that if one is guaranteed 50% outright victory he should take the shot.
    Those are good odds my man.

    I don't even wanna ask what the court fees are in Manhattan. With lessons and fees in NYC I hear it can easily be a grand a month.
     
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  27. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    My position is that a kick serve is good but unless one gets to the 4.5 level it does not really kick that much. I mean kick serves that bounce over the head if one is behind the baseline.

    Do you see crazy kick serves at the 4.0 level?
     
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  28. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    If you can hang with a 4.5 even for one set, then you're at least a strong 4.0 already. Sorry, but your story about 50%+ 100+mph first serve and hanging with 4.5 doesn't jive, especially given that you must be losing to 3.5s on a regular basis, otherwise you wouldn't be at 3.0. Play a full match against a strong 3.5 singles player, and keep track of your exact 1st serve %, and other statistics. I think you'll be surprised to by actual numbers. Also, the best way to get evaluated, is to post a video.

    In general, like I said, so far, your story makes no sense me.

    As for me, I've been playing tennis since high school, off and on (I'm in my late 30s). When I got back to seriously playing in USTA leagues, I started as a strong 3.5 (but I self rated at 4.0). After 2 years, I am winning 90%+ of my 4.0 matches. Compared to other strong 4.0s, what stands out is my athletic ability and stronger forehand. Some days, my flat serve works really well, but I often end up using kick/topspin serve for both 1st and 2nd.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
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  29. Velvet Ga el

    Velvet Ga el Rookie

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    I think you should probably roll this back a bit. First, neither you nor I have "beat" the other Talk Tennis Player. Each of us only played a set against him, so no match outcome was ever created.

    Second, my direct quote was as follows:

    Nowhere in that quote did I say, or imply, you were "lucky" to beat him. I simply said he had an off service day, which I think is correct. Even then, you still managed to beat him enough during your service games to force a tiebreaker, which you won.

    Third, if I underestimate you, which is bizarre given that I've called you a mid-level 3.5 when you're a self-rated 3.0, it's because your results say as much. You have a loss to two 3.0s this year. Your win at 4.0 came against an unrated player (who lost 1 and 3 to a guy who has played three 3.5 tournaments this year), and your 4.0 match against a computer rated 4.0 player who plays mostly doubles went 2 and 1 in his favor; those results are all well within the bounds of what one would expect for a 3.5 player.

    See, here's the thing. I don't even really care about what you looked like when I watched you play. The Lord knows that when I was a self-rated 3.0, I was the king of pushers in tournaments and league while I took heavier cuts (and was far less consistent) in off-the-record matches. What I do care about is evidence of your scores against other rated players in matches that actually matter (and are verifiable via TennisLink). In that regard, we see you can consistently beat almost all 3.0 players and you got drummed against a 4.0 player. Your 4.0 "win" was against a solid 3.5 player playing up in the tournament.

    So unless you play wildly different (and better) stylistically in personal matches than tournament matches, which would be quite the rarity (and beg the question why you intentionally play an inferior style in tournaments), the actual evidence shows you to be exactly what I've said you are right now: a mid-level 3.5 player.
     
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  30. buruan

    buruan New User

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    Geometry and angles.
    I don't have the math here, but you need to have a high contact point to hit a fully flat serve (fully flat, ignoring gravity etc) in order for it to get into the service box.
     
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  31. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I am sorry but I am going to ignore your post. Please don't take offense, but i see no merits in explicating the situation on a messageboard.

    Many things don't make sense to many people. I can't make all see the light or have a virtual come to Jesus moment with everyone in cyberspace who says that someone can't hit a 105-110 mph serve.

    People are not interested in my tennis skill, they are may be however interested in the generic questions that I pose and their own interpolation to them.

    It's not about me; it's about the post.

    I don't play 3.5s. I play in 3.0 and 4.0s tournaments. I have won loss at 3.0 in League (undefeated in tournaments) and one win in a 4.0 tournament.

    Remember I am a self-rate--not a C rate--and rated myself what my coach told me to to after being largely abroad since graduation.
     
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  32. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    hmm, i wonder if the semantics of "flat" are in question. What I call flat many not be flat...a gorilla serve may be the more apt term...
     
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  33. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    You have an interesting definition of "ignore your post" :)

    So far, from all the evidence, it looks like you're a 3.5. You should play at your level, you're improve faster. Also, if you had 100+mph first serve, even at 40%, your coach would have to be an idiot to rate you at 3.0.
     
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  34. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    You are likely correct. I assert nothing with certainty. I am simply positing my thoughts and eliciting a response.

    Your post is well reasoned although I only lost to once in 3.0. Not sure where you are getting that second defeat from. Even if you discount the win against the 4.0 opponent (who you say is a strong 3.5) I beat him better than the 6-2 6-1 whipping I got from the tournament SFist. I think I beat him 6-0 6-1.

    I think it was a style thing--as I could tell he could not handle my power. My next opponent never let me hit a forehand or smack winners on him as he sliced EVERY SHOT to my backhand.

    if I was smarter I would have ran round the slice or rushed the net more often. He was much more experienced than I was and knew how to exploit weakness.

    Kudos to him; a much better player.

    Yes, I play completely different in tournaments than I do when taking lessons or scrimmaging. Like you did i push in tournaments and hit in practice. My pro said he could not recognize me on the court save the serve. The lower level guys hit really bad balls so run and tap tennis works. The higher level men will hit you a solid ball with pace that I can tee off on. Normally, if I can tee off one a ball its not coming back below the 5.0 level. even then, it's a winner 75% of the time.

    I don't disagree with your overall conclusion.

    Are you in Vegas? is so, lets play.
     
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  35. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I am a very polite person:) I like to make everyone happy!

    That's pretty good: a 90% win rate at 4.0. Do you play league or tournaments?

    How many aces do you normally get?

    Seriously, would you say that at best 10% of the players have the ability to hit 100+mphs serves with 50% accuracy at the 4.0 level?
     
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  36. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    I think Strategy is probably the biggest thing. At 4.0, the player has to have been playing a lot of tennis at some point in their life. They will recognize weaknesses much more quickly, because they have likely seen it before.

    A quick commentary on your serve. A big serve can be such a weapon at rec levels. So many free points. Nothing can really substitute pure speed, but a nice kicker will mean you never start the point less than equal. Developing a nice reliable 2nd serve that you can hit all day will allow you to freely go for it on your 1st. Your ability on your 2nd serve is more important than your first serve. If I were you I'd try and work on that as much as possible. That alone would bump you to 3.5 in one quick swoop and probably give you a better 1st/2nd combo than most 4.0s and some 4.5s.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
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  37. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    On average, I'd say <3 aces per match, so not many at all. I do get a lot of short balls on my serve though, since I can place it to opponents weaker side. If I get a short ball, I usually take control of the point. I only play leagues at this time, no tournaments, since I normally can't spend the whole weekend playing tennis. I play mostly singles, except for combo/mixed seasons.

    I've never played any players at 4.0 who could ace me more than a few times in a match. Even the best 4.5 players that I know, usually go for placement, rather than pace. You have to have both placement and pace to ace people, especially after they get used to your serve.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
    #37
  38. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I agree that strategy starts to emerge at the 4.0 level. When I play the more experienced 10/15 year player 4.0s I get crushed, but when I play the younger more athletic 4.0/4.5 competitors I do much better.

    I noticed that my opponent watched me demolish the dude in round one where I knocked him off the court: at one time I served so hard at his body that it jarred the racket from his hand.

    He just kinda watched and the next day he came out and deprived me of any chance to hit one powerful forehand...low slices to the backhand all set.

    So yea, strategy is very important.
     
    #38
  39. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Yea, i can go three games with my opponent touching the ball only 2 or 3 times if he is not serving. When I get up in the 2nd set I normally give me opponent a cursory heads up that I am going 1st twice and the game become a dual between me and the square; the dude on the court might as well sit down as he has nothing to do with the outcome.

    I think if the pace is nonreturnable use it! There is no substitute for pure speed and power. Most of us have to rely on placement because we don't have 125/130- mph serves and 90 mph forehands. I sure don't.

    Putting away shortballs is key to advancing in tennis.

    Do you think mixed makes you a better player? Some older lady asked me to be her partner but I make a bazillion errors when I play with women.
     
    #39
  40. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    Playing more tennis makes you a better player, not matter if it's mixed or not. If you make more errors in mixed, then you'll benefit even more, because it means playing mixed reveals some weakness that you need to work on.

    Regarding your amazing serve, if it's that good, yet you still occasionally lose at 3.0 and 3.5, then the rest of your game must be really bad :) However, if you can improve other aspects of your game, and keep your super 1st serve, you'll go far.
     
    #40
  41. DirtBaller4

    DirtBaller4 Rookie

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    I played against a lefty 6'2" 3.5 the other day and his kick serve was head height to my backhand on the AD court and it messed me up ALL night long.

    It can be quite frustrating for the returner, so there are some good kickers out there in 3.5-4.0 land, but not the norm.

    The 100mph+ serve club is a great place to be, and I would love to have a 100+ first serve at 50%, so kudos to you for having such pace and accuracy @ 3.0.

    I think we all have 4.5 shots in us and probably have a half dozen each set, it's the overall level of every aspect of your game which makes us them rating we are. I would also recommend you playing up to 3.5 because it seems like you might be a quick study who could excel with a challenge. Plus, playing with 3.0 players should be boring holding at love every game.
     
    #41
  42. Velvet Ga el

    Velvet Ga el Rookie

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    TennisLink has you down for one loss in league and a second loss in a tournament in Colorado Springs. If that's not correct, I'd recommend you contact the Tournament Director as the loss may influence your rating if not corrected.


    I just got done with districts, so I'll be on the shelf for the next couple of weeks and after that I generally only schedule practice matches with 4.5 players to prepare for sectionals.

    You should consider playing the 3.5 or 4.0 Club Sport singles tournament. It usually draws some benchmark 3.5/4.0 players, so you'll get a better idea of where you're at compared to those guys.
     
    #42
  43. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Women are delicate flowers and should not be subjected to the ire of men's competitive dealings. I can't turn it on with or against my Baba on the court. if she's hot I get really distracted! if she's not I don't really wanna play with her--maybe she she would beat me and that is embarrassing loosing to a woman.

    My serve is not amazing. Really. It is what it is. A legit 105-115 strike. I think that most people--like that big dude who posts on here sometime--say they can can serve 105 or think they face 105 serves but in reality it's likely 85-90.
    Very few players will consistently see 100 mph + serves below 5.0.

    The rest of my game is ok. nothing special save good wheels and a strong forehand.
     
    #43
  44. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Oh yea, I forgot about that loss. it's correct.

    Maybe not post so much personal info, please. There are some crazy people on the net. I once infuriated some dude in Europe so much on a political messagebaord that he sat outside of the Embassy for two days yelling obscenities and holding a placard until the local police dragged him away...had a hard time explaining that one to the Amb.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
    #44
  45. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Thanks. If in vegas I shall take a look.
     
    #45
  46. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    hmm, thanks for the advice.

    I agree that all of us have our moments but it's about the norm not the exception.

    Some players are just streaky though and the highs and lows are so much more noticeable.

    I am not sure what is preferable: games of greatness or sets of steadiness.
     
    #46
  47. Velvet Ga el

    Velvet Ga el Rookie

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    Duly noted. You posted your name and score identifiers, as well as those of an opponent, in your first thread on Talk Tennis, so I assumed you were amendable to me looking up and posting your results. If not, I will certainly drop the identifiers, though I might recommend you ask the moderators to remove the personal info from your first thread.
     
    #47
  48. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    If you've got good wheels and strong forehand, then you can run around your backhand most of the time, add your serve, and you should be 4.0 right now, based on what you're saying.
     
    #48
  49. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Never posted my name, mate. You are pretty sleuthy though.

    I don't mind the results being posted but not the identifiers of the opponents.

    I value your comments and wish to see more of them and am saddened that you feel beneath playing me because I am sure you would beat me no more than 6-3 in one set.

    Have a good day, sir.
     
    #49
  50. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I think that there is some overlap within NTRP ratings. I also think that League players are better than tournament players. So the number 1 singles player on a top team in a 3.5 league would likely win a few matches in a 4.0 tournament. Some of these dudes are 4.0 doubles players, out of shape, hung over, mentally zonked out...

    What I find is that the top league players compete .5 level up in tournaments.

    I play with a guy who plays 3.5, self-rated 3.0 , and just won a 4.0 tournament. I normally beat him 6-4 6-4. We have similar styles but I am stronger, a little faster, same quickness, and my serve is about 10-15mph faster. He's in very good shape--triathlete ironman type-- but not quite as athletic as I am so our games normally boil down to me making a few more spectacular plays than he does each match. Where I get my clock cleaned is against older players in good shape who don't let me play my game.

    I think it is about match ups..not to reopen that can of worms...

    SO when Velvet says I am nothing more than a middle of the road 3.5 he may be correct, but it does not negate that my coach says I would be about a 50% 4.0 tournament player. Which is exactly what my results say. My pro says he just umpired the 40+ 4.0 championships and said that I would be beat very easily.

    That's why I am a bit confused about these NTRP levels. I am not sandbagging at 3.0. Likely just a streaky player who plays well against some and bombs against others.
     
    #50

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