Djoker-Baghy Basel QF 2011

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by OddJack, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    used to be one of rogers qualities :D
     
    #51
  2. AhmedD

    AhmedD Semi-Pro

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    Generally that's a sign that he either hasn't been maintaining his fitness during the time off. Another possibility is he's the kind of guy that gets out of shape easily, which is probably the case since his history indicates this. His game is extremely demanding too, which doesn't really help. It makes me question his longevity since he needs to work much harder than others to maintain that level. It's not just the rust, I mean in the first set his defense was nowhere near the level it use to be. It still isn't so far in the match. I think that's what is causing doubt around his longevity at the top. I'm sure he will be able to maintain it, but he really has to continue improving his "base" when it comes to fitness. I mean look at Nadal, he can play all day long no matter long, it doesn't matter if he's taking a long break, he doesn't show signs of tiredness unless he's gone through extremely long matches consecutively or he's physically unwell. Same can go for Federer, he's done a great job maintaining his fitness, and his game is the least demanding the 3 since it's the most aggressively oriented, same goes for his technique which is the simplest and most efficient. To summarize it Djokovic is maximum effort maximum results. Nadal is also the same, but not to that extent since he does give maximum effort but does not always get the best results. Federer is minimal effort for maximum results, his game wouldn't be as efficient if he was trying too hard, he plays his best when he's very relaxed and confident and can actually keep it mentally intact, but then again, I feel that's the reason that is causing to zone out, he just needs to up the intensity a bit more like he used to, from 04-07 he found that middle ground between doing what he needs to do win, and balancing his game intensity with his "chill".
     
    #52
  3. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    I thought today was Baggy day....dang!
     
    #53
  4. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    1 bad point(easy forehand miss) may have been the reason why Davydenko lost to Federer at the AO last year. That point basically decided the next 40 minutes of that match as Davydenko played at an untouchable level and had Federer in a panic and then suddenly after that point, Davydenko's entire game goes to hell.:confused:
    Same as the Nadal/Murray Wimbledon match this year. 1 bad forehand error from Murray led to a complete collapse and went from attacker to complete pusher.
     
    #54
  5. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    Oh dear :/

    To be fair Novak didn't play that first set very well and Baggy was able to take advantage, but he really stepped up in the 2nd and 3rd sets.
     
    #55
  6. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Djokovic has finished in the top 3 since 2007 now. He's extremely fit. And no, Nadal cannot play all day long! Nadal has shown massive signs of fatigue during matches. Stop overrating his fitness. The guy gets tired just like everybody else. He's even hunched over trying to catch his breath during long rigorous rallies and even gone away physically and mentally in matches. Did you not see set 4 in the USO final this year? Nadal was physically exhausted even despite having an easy road to the final. He got blown away in that set by a Djokovic who had basically a woman's serve in that set.

    Also, you can go on and on about how Federer achieves so much with minimal results and never seems tired. It doesn't mean a damn thing because all Federer has to show for 2011 is 1 title in Doha. He's won NOTHING else this year. In order for him to win, his stamina needs to improve because he's got nothing left when he needs it most.
     
    #56
  7. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    What's with the surprises? Djokovic is supposed to win because he's the superior player in every way. Who the hell is Baghdatis? The guy hasn't done squat in years. Respect the world #1. An off day and he still comes up with enough to get the win.
     
    #57
  8. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    That's why you have to win 2 sets to win the match. Not just 1 set. A lot of players can win 1 set against the elite.:)
     
    #58
  9. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Dang, the Djoker is hard to put away this year. Good try Baggy.
     
    #59
  10. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Because Fed's career consists only of 2011, right? In the big picture (you know looking at the whole career instead of isolating just one year) Fed's relatively easy style of play and great scheduling & pacing played a very important factor in him winning so many slams(more than anyone else in the open era) so yes it does mean a damn thing (unless you think winning 16 slams isn't impressive, you must have insanely high standards then).

    Novak does exert himself more than1 to win matches than Fed did in his day (partly the reason why he has so many retirements, he pushes his body more to the limit) so it will it is less likely (which doesn't mean it isn't possible, anything is possible) that he'll have as many dominant years (2-3 slams and ending #1) as Fed did.

    One more thing, Fed is a 30 year old with almost 1000 matches under his belt who has been a top 2 player for 8 years now, you should compare his fitness & endurance to other players in a similar situation not with 24 year old Novak or 25 year old Nadal cause chances are they will be spent goods when they are pushing 30 as well.
     
    #60
  11. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    I'm only talking about 2011, Zagor. There will never be another Federer. But I'm only talking about the events of this year.
     
    #61
  12. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    It's not just about playing good tennis. It's also about nerves and self-belief. Monfils and Berdych and Bellucci all gave good tussles against Djokovic but they still lost. Is it a surprise that the only players who've beaten Djokovic this year just happen to be either a 16 Slam legend(Federer), a supremely talented top 3 player (Murray), or a former top 5 player and former US Open champion (Del Potro).
     
    #62
  13. glazkovss

    glazkovss Professional

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    No, it isn't a surprise. They are exactly the 3 players who can beat him, no one else. Even Rafa.
     
    #63
  14. AhmedD

    AhmedD Semi-Pro

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    Yes, but if your going to compare Djokovic and Nadal in terms of physical fitness and stamina based on their entire careers Nadal has shown better fitness. I agree, this year, Djokovic has been the fittest out of all the top players, however, the point I'm making is that his fitness came through more hardwork relative to the other two. I maybe exaggerating Nadal's fitness here, but you have to admit that for a person who's playing style is so physically demanding, Nadal's fitness is something to marvel at. Djokovic has been spectacular all year, I am merely raising a question as to whether or not he'll be able to maintain it given his playing style.

    And what exactly do you mean by achieving so much with minimal results? That doesn't even make sense and complete contrary to what I stated. I said minimal effort, maximum results. And yes, it does mean a damn thing, you don't stay at the top of the game 8 years without good stamina, and Federer still has a lot of it. It's not his stamina that's lacking, it's his mental fortitude that needs fixing. He's a bit slower, but that's a given since he's aging, obviously he's not going to be Speedy Gonzalez at age 30, but that doesn't have anything to do with lacking fitness.
     
    #64
  15. CCNM

    CCNM Hall of Fame

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    Glad to hear my guy Marcos took a set off of Novak! :)
     
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