Djokovic 8 different Masters won now, only missing Cincinnati!

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by tennis_pro, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. raphMODE

    raphMODE Professional

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    ^
    This is what I meant, veroniquem. It depends if you count the "slots" or the venues...
    Both are unfair anyway.
     
    #51
  2. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    It seems like a reasonable possibility that Federer will never play Monte Carlo again.
     
    #52
  3. NEW_BORN

    NEW_BORN Professional

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    I've never considered it this way. But it makes perfect sense :)
     
    #53
  4. Beryl

    Beryl Hall of Fame

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    I would think you need to use a hybrid of surface and slot to identify the masters and follow tournament lineage. Madrid (clay) and Rome swapped slots, technically, but that was it, neither was replaced and each tournament maintained their identity. When Hamburg was swapped for Madrid (clay) and Madrid (indoor) was swapped for Shanghai, venues changed and the older venues were phased out. The new venues thus had to be considered replacements. With the Madrid (clay)/Rome swap, this is not the case.

    IMO it is fair to say Federer can use Madrid (indoor) as a substitute for Shanghai, but Hamburg is not a substitute for Rome, as Rome existed when Hamburg was a masters event and it exists currently.
     
    #54
  5. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    It was never about the slots. Djokovic will win all Masters 1000, unlike Nadal or Federer...........:twisted:
     
    #55
  6. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    If Djokovic completes the set of Masters and Slams, and he looks good enough to do it, then that will be a very unique accomplishment. What does that say about the versality of Djokovic?
     
    #56
  7. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Haha, maybe he'll be the GOAT, and the irony that befalls the Fedfards and Rafatards will be hilarious. That will just be great!!!........:twisted:
     
    #57
  8. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    The interesting thing is that Djokovic has lived in the gigantic shadow of those two legends, and yet could potentially end up with positive H2Hs against both of them. I know Fedal are declining, but it still takes a special player to rack up that many wins against them.
     
    #58
  9. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    He cannot be serious. That is absolutely preposterous! Monte-Carlo and Rome have stayed the same forever, changes of DATES really cannot affect that. Madrid replaced Hamburg no matter how you look at it. It's possible to count venues but it's unfair to younger players since Madrid indoor and Hamburg master don't exist anymore, so of course they have no way to win them. There are only 9 masters every year and no matter what the permutations are, the number in a season is always 9, that's why the absolute record is to win all 9.
    ETA: also no matter how much you're willing to clown around with fanciful nonsense like "slots" , the hard fact is: Fed has not won Rome nor M-C. That is the intangible reality.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
    #59
  10. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I think they'll all be the GOAT of something. Rafa will be the GOAT of most master titles and most titles at 1 master, Djoko the GOAT of winning all 9 and Fed the GOAT of most WTF won. That way, there'll be something for everyone.
     
    #60
  11. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    not even sure he will ever play MC again. He skipped it this and last year (don't know about the years before that).
     
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  12. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    People, it is not that difficult:

    Stockholm ( 90-94 ), Essen ( 95 ), Stuttgart ( 96-01 ), Madrid-Indoor-hard ( 02-08 ) and Shanghai ( 09-present ), ARE "THE SAME" M-1000.

    Hamburg ( 90-08 ) and Madrid-clay ( 09-present ), ARE "THE SAME" M-1000.
     
    #62
  13. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    He was runner-up to Nadal in the final for 3 years on the trot, 2006-8. Was a last-minute entrant in 2009 before losing in the 3rd round to his compatriot Stan Wawrinka (the only time he has ever lost to him). He skipped 2010, played 2011 but lost in the quarters to Melzer and that was his last appearance in MC to date.
     
    #63
  14. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Thank you. Such a relief when common sense prevails!
     
    #64
  15. 3fees

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    Thats true and missing one slam French Open.
     
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  16. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    [​IMG]
     
    #66
  17. raphMODE

    raphMODE Professional

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    So... Federer won "THIS" M-1000 because he won Madrid-hard, though he didn't won Shanghai yet ? :)
    And Also Rome because he won Hamburg when it was at "THIS" place ?

    No, I think It's more complicated than that... That's why we can't really talk about "slots" or "Masters number x", and we can't really talk about "venues" either cause it would be unfair !

    i.e : IF we consider Djoko will have ALL Masters when he win Cincinnatti because he would have won in 9 different places over MANY years (and not 1 year) DESPITE never won Hamburg and Madrid-hard while he played them... THEN we have to consider in the SAME way that Federer already won 8 different places over many years (because he won Hamburg and Madrid-hard), and misses Monte Carlo, Rome, Shanghai and Stuttgart.
     
    #67
  18. tennisbuck

    tennisbuck Professional

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    Djokovic still has the Olympics on his things to win list as well
     
    #68
  19. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    Nobody cares about the 750 event (Olympics). It happens too rarely to be statistically significant and only exists to advertise tennis to the broad TV audience.
     
    #69
  20. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    No, Federer has won 7. Never won MonteCarlo and Rome.
     
    #70
  21. raphMODE

    raphMODE Professional

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    He won 8 different venues :

    Hamburg - 2002
    Indian Wells - 2004
    Toronto - 2004
    Miami - 2005
    Cincinnati - 2005
    Madrid (hard) - 2006
    Paris - 2011
    Madrid (clay) - 2012

    He didn't won Stuttgart, Monte Carlo, Rome, Shanghai.
     
    #71
  22. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Sure he didn't win but folks here talk as if he was a mug in those tournies. He only got beaten in the finals by Ralph, the worst possible matchup, not to mention came up short by a hair's length in Rome 06. He's made multiple finals in MC too losing only to Ralph.

    Now in contrast, Ralph is barely even a contender at both Cincy and Paris though it's surprising he's mugged out multiple times at Miami,the slowest HC on tour which suits his playing style. That way Fed's won all tournies that complimented his playing style.
     
    #72
  23. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Nobody said anything about Rafa being the most versatile player. This thread is about Djokovic and how he's the only player who's currently a title away from winning all 9.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
    #73
  24. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    It's not about venues
     
    #74
  25. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Are you dense or just trolling?

    There are 9 different M-1000 licenses.

    Indian Wells bought one of them in 1990 and still holds it.

    Miami bought one of them in 1990 and still holds it.

    Monte Carlo bought one of them in 1990 and still holds it.

    Rome bought one of them in 1990 and still holds it.

    Canadian Open bought one of them in 1990 and still holds it.

    Cincinnati bought one of them in 1990 and still holds it.

    Paris-Bercy bought one of them in 1990 and still holds it.

    The remaining two M-1000 licenses:

    Stockholm bought one of them in 1990 and held it till 1994, this one license was later bought by Essen in 1995 (and only held it that year), in 1996 this same license was bought by Stuttgart that held it until 2001, in 2002 this same license was bought by Madrid-indoor-hard that held it till 2008, this same license was bought by Shanghai in 2009 and still holds it.

    Hamburg bought the other license in 1990 and held it till 2008, this same license was bought in 2009 by Madrid-outdoor-clay and still holds it.


    I hope you now understand that Djokovic has won 8 out of 9 , Federer 7 out of 9 and Nadal 6 out of 9.
     
    #75
  26. raphMODE

    raphMODE Professional

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    Not trolling at all, just trying to understand...
    It's OK now, you explained well with the licenses and it's clearer that way :
    Hamburg and Madrid-clay is the same license, and count as "one", even if he won both titles when Hamburg was the 5th Masters and Madrid the 4th.
     
    #76
  27. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    ########Wrong.
     
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  28. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    If Federer is out of form come then, he might just edge Murray out in a tightly contested final in Cincinnati.
     
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  29. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    This year wont happen, Nole lost his chance.

    Now I want Rafa to win Cincy, and then win Bercy so next year he can complete all 9 M1000 in Miami
     
    #79
  30. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Ha ha that would be awesome!
     
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  31. -RF-

    -RF- Hall of Fame

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    And extremely unrealistic :)
     
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  32. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I don't know what's realistic anymore. I mean Rafa beat the odds pretty hard this year, didn't he?
     
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  33. firepanda

    firepanda Professional

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    That explains a lot. An easier way of looking at it would be Shanghai bought Hamburg's license. Then Stockholm-Essen-Stuttgart-Madrid, the last of which changed surfaces.

    Also, I believe that Nadal holds 5 out of the 9 current masters? He lacks Bercy, Miami, Cincy and Shanghai.
     
    #83
  34. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    Shanghai is the former Madrid hard (indoor)

    It's already WELL explained earlier in the thread.
     
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  35. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    Cincinnati.....done
    Bercy.....to do
    Miami.....to do
     
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  36. counterloop

    counterloop Professional

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    Funny thread. Nadal wasn't even considered to win Cincy. Lol
     
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  37. raisethe3

    raisethe3 Rookie

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    Nadal is not too far away. He needs Miami, Paris and Shanghai. I think he can get Miami, that's outdoor. But Paris and Shanghai? Long shot. But I wouldn't count him out. Anything is possible.
     
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  38. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Shanghai replaced Madrid (which was on lightning indoor court much faster than Shanghai, the kind of court Nadal supposably cant win on but did), so Nadal has won that one whether he wins the actual Shanghai venue or not. He is still 3 away though- Paris, Miami, and the WTF. I agree it will be tough but not impossible. Certainly way better odds than Federer or Murray ever have to complete it, that is for sure. The form he is in now he just might win the Paris-WTF double this year and move alot closer.
     
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  39. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    He does not need Shanghai. He needs Paris and Miami. I think Paris will be the toughest. (But what do I know? lol Rafa will probably turn into indoor specialist next :))
     
    #89
  40. Readers

    Readers Semi-Pro

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    If you ask rafa, he prob just want some more GS instead.
     
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  41. aldeayeah

    aldeayeah Hall of Fame

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    I remember the Madrid (indoor hard) final Nadal won, it was a dramatic comeback win against peak Ljubo, with a fifth set tiebreak. A real nailbiter.

    Poor Ljubicic consistently got the short end of the stick back then - he always seemed to run into Jesus Fed, or inspired Nadal, or whatever the hot player of the week was.
     
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  42. nadalbestclass

    nadalbestclass Hall of Fame

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    I am certain that if he's able to have(and I hope and pray he does) 3-4 more healthy years he will certainly work on getting good at that surface as well. :)
     
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  43. cucio

    cucio Legend

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    O the fancy world of random achievements! Does anyone know if there's a player that has managed to win seven tournaments wearing seven different shirts in all of the colors of the rainbow?
     
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  44. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    Wrong.

    He's two M1000 away: Bercy and Miami.

    WTF is not a M1000 but an exho. There are just 9 M1000 and Rafa has conquered 7 with his triumph in Cincinnati
     
    #94
  45. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Nadal obviously considers it important as he worked very hard in 2010 to make the final. You have no idea what youre talking about
     
    #95
  46. Readers

    Readers Semi-Pro

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    Learn the difference between fact and opinion, WTF is not a Master 1000, that's a fact.
     
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  47. xan

    xan Professional

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    It's also not an exo and thats a fact too.
    Some just enjoy sounding like morons.
     
    #97
  48. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    Nadal only needs Paris and Miami as confirmed by the commies on Sky Sport.
     
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  49. aldeayeah

    aldeayeah Hall of Fame

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    I protest! Madrid fast indoor HC shouldn't be equivalent to Shanghai medium outdoor HC! :p
     
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