Djokovic's poor record on title defence

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Mainad, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Considering how much Djokovic has now got to defend in 2012, it came as a bit of surprise to me when I checked his record on title defence and found he has so far only defended 3 out of his 28 titles and nothing bigger than an ATP500!

    In fact his record on title defence is the lowest among the top 4 players:

    Federer: out of his 70 titles, has defended 27 (9 Slams, 3 WTFs, 5 Masters, 4 500s and 6 250s) or approx. 38.6%.

    Nadal: out of his 46 titles, has defended 17 ( 4 Slams, 9 Masters, 4 500s) or approx. 37%.

    Murray: out of his 21 titles, has defended 5 ( 2 Masters, 3 250s) or approx. 23.8%.

    Djokovic: out of his 28 titles, has defended 3 (3 500s) or approx. 10.7 %.

    So this is a record he will have to start improving on this coming year if he wants to keep his no.1 ranking!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
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  2. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    given the fact that he won 10 titles in 2011 (or is it 11?), I'm sure he'll defend some of those
     
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  3. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    It was 10. So he'll have to up his percentage rate or he'll only defend 1 of them! :wink:
     
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  4. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    People used to go on about this a lot, really though I think it's a pretty small point. Recently the only guys who had really defended masters or slams were Federer and Nadal, Murray managed to defend 2 masters in the last 2 years.

    With Djokovic the first time he ever tried to defend a 500 or 250, he did it. He just generally didn't turn up to play the same 500s and 250s he won the year before. The only thing he was failing at was defending masters which not that many people do anyway.
     
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  5. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    But if he wants to keep his no.1 ranking then he's going to have to start defending something bigger than the odd 500!

    In fairness, given his form this year, I think he would have defended pretty much anything he had won in 2010, at least in the first half of the year. It was just that he didn't win much in 2010 apart from Dubai and Beijing (both 500 events) and he was too injured or tired to show up for Beijing.
    Which begs the question many of us are asking: How much will he be able to reproduce in 2012 the form that won him so many titles in 2011 because he will need to if he wants to dramatically increase his defence percentage!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
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  6. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    yeah but he became a much better player in 2011, so you can't really judge his failure to defend his masters and one slam in this context. Yeah he's going to have to do something he never did before, but 2011 was full of things he never did before.

    His failure to defend titles comes from a part of his career when it wasn't such a big deal as only Federer and Nadal were doing it (and as has been said with Nadal many times, he's only defended titles on clay)
     
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  7. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    You are going back to Joker 2010. Joker 2.0 is a different ballgame altogether. He's finally got it all together.

    At least enough to give a prime, peak Nadal playing at his absolute majestic best a thorough beating on all surfaces.

    He'll certainly defend.

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  8. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    djokovic probably doesn't care too much about defending all those many titles he has won in 2011 as long as he could defend his titles at the AO, wimbledon, and USO
     
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  9. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    getting up everyday and praying to GOD ,"Pls pls let my freddy win"..but freddy had his "moments"..it's time for records to get shattered.Dawn of the new era has begun.
    Noel saved your face last year.But this year is going to be different.Ralpha is going to take it all.5000 rpm forehands with laso grip coupled with flatter backhand will bring an end to your little fantasy.
    ADios AMigo!!
     
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  10. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    What's Nadal's percentage outside clay? (clay counts, I am aware of that, just curious).
     
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  11. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    That's easy : 0%
     
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  12. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    I wonder if there has ever been another no.1 incapable of defending a title on 2 out of 3 surfaces...

    Pretty big stain on Ralph's resume...

    Let's see if he can defend his HC exhibition tourney title next year...
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
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  13. _maxi

    _maxi Banned

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    The calculations are wrong. You can't put into the calculations the 2011 titles of the players, because you don't know yet if they are going to defend the title or not. In case of Novak, including his 10 titles in the calculations makes it appear worse.

    The real percentage, using your data as valid, is:

    Out of his 18 titles (28 minus 10 from 2011) he defended 3, and that is 16.667%

    If you do the same to every player calculation you put here, it will increase a little bit the percentage of every player, but not change so much as it did with Djokovic number. Anyway, in comparison 16.7% is poor.
     
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  14. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    I can't wait to watch him bleed ranking points next year :twisted:
     
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  15. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    He won't,though. I really think he will defend just about everything he won this year. Who's going to stop him?

    Oh,and Nadal will be the one bleeding ranking points next year. No way on this planet he defends all of those finals he made. He also won't defend any of his titles from this year either,especially RG.
     
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  16. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Percentages misleading. Nadal never defended anything outside clay.Fed defended both on grass and hard.

    Dojoko....too soon to judge. He won handfull of masters and majors this year so we will know how well he can defend in next 10 months.
     
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  17. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, you're right. I shouldn't have included the 2011 titles won because, as you say, they haven't had a chance to defend them yet.

    So recalculating to titles won by the end of 2010 and defended by the end of 2011,we have:

    Federer with 66 titles, 27 defended : approx. 40.9%
    Nadal with 43 titles, 17 defended: approx. 39.5%
    Murray with 16 titles, 5 defended: approx. 31.25%
    Djokovic with 18 titles, 3 defended: approx. 16.66 %

    Djokovic still comes out bottom and at a considerable distance from the others.
     
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  18. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Being really pedantic, you could look at titles re-entered the following year - sometimes players elect not to play the event the next year. But i'm not even going there with Federer or nadal haha, not checking that many titles
     
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  19. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Considering Noel had won only a single GS (AO 08 ) before this year and did not have as much belief as now, the sample size of his record of **GS** title defences is too small to conclude anything. If he has recovered from his injuries/burnout, he should be able to better the stats on this front starting with the AO, given how well he's played there in the past - he's also the bookies fav to do that. And I am not even a Noel fan(don't really like to watch the grunting game with ugly volley's etc..), but that's the current outlook.
     
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  20. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

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    Title defense isn't really all that important relatively speaking, but I've always thought that this was one part of Djoker's career that needed some serious help. But Djokovic has been making some serious strides toward improving his career.

    Before 2009, he hadn't been able to win back-to-back titles. Then he won Basel & Paris
    Before 2010, he hadn't been able to defend a title. Then he defended Dubai....twice.
    Before this year, he was unable to win back-to-back Masters. Then he broke the record for most Masters won consecutively, and most in a season.
    After he won the Australian Open in 2008, he was unable to win the very next slam. But this year, he won Wimbledon and the US Open successively.

    Next year, we'll see if he can: defend a slam, defend a Masters, and defend a clay/grass title.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
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  21. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    I really don't think title defense is important at all, in and of itself. Winning titles is important. It is no worse to win the AO and USO one year and the FO and W the next than to win the AO and USO two years in a row.
     
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  22. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    I agree really.

    What would be funny is if Djokovic won the FO plus 2 of the other slams plus MC, Cinci, Shanghai, Paris and one other masters since he'd have dodn as well this year but by defending the fewest titles possible whilst winning 3 slams and 5 masters (1 masters and 2 slams) so he's have a 3 out of 8 record which looks bad, but it would be another great year.
     
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  23. Kaz00

    Kaz00 Semi-Pro

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    What's the stats for Nadal defending a hard court title?
     
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  24. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I bag on Nadal myself for not defending anything outside of clay,but why is it Possum seems to be getting a pass for not defending titles yet Nadal does not? Oh,wait,I know why;I am on Federer Warehouse so I don't know why I expected anything different. Lol.
     
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  25. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

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    He has never defended a non-clay title.
     
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  26. Kaz00

    Kaz00 Semi-Pro

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    LOL just wanted someone to say that :)
     
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  27. monfed

    monfed Guest

    All depends on Novak's shoulder and fitness. The only title I doubt he'll defend is Wimbledon.
     
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  28. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal didn't win a single title on non-clay this year so 2012 he doesn't have a chance to defend any non-clay event.

    It's possible that Nadal retire without being able to defend any event outside of clay.
     
    #28
  29. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Djokovic is guaranteed to make the semifinals of every single tournament he plays at the least. The gulf in talent between him when he's healthy compared to everybody else outside of the top 4 is a whole other level. Guys like Tsonga and Berdych who round out the top 8 may give him some trouble but they are very unlikely to win.
    That's why Djokovic is in a great position to defend many of his titles. He will basically not be tested until he meets one of the big 4 and that can only happen in the semifinals. So he has great chances to bag more Slams in 2012 and more Masters.
    He seems to be saving his best for the latter stages of tournaments. He's able to raise his level even higher despite looking vulnerable in previous rounds(Bellucci in Madrid, Murray in Rome, Tomic at Wimbledon, Dodig at the AO, etc). Despite looking vulnerable, he upped it a gear when it came time to play the big 4. He's like Federer and Nadal in that regard. Play your best when it really matters.
     
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  30. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

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    If he heals physically, it will depend on the draws how many titles he'll defend...Fed in a final will be a tougher task than Ralph '11 was.
     
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  31. glazkovss

    glazkovss Professional

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    It can also mean that he is versatile if he is winning different titles all the time. And no surprise he is below Nadal and Federer, two all time greats. And he couldn't defend any of this years titles (10), so discounting them would make for a fairer statistics.
    In fact he is pretty good at defending titles, he has won Dubai 3 times in a row and Beijing two straight times (didn't play this year). The stats would be fairer if you'll provide us the percentage of title defenses which players at least tried to make (particapated as a defending champion).

    P.S. Again to compare Nole with Fedal is ridiculos, they win hands down, completely in a league of their own, so can't see any sense in comparing him to them. With Murray and others - yes, would be interesting, but Rog and Rafa are head & shoulders above everyone else in accomplishments.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
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  32. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    So it's agreed.

    Not as poor as Ralph's off clay.
     
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  33. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I already discounted them in my last post and re-calculated. He came out at 16.66%, still by far the lowest of the top 4.

    Okay, fair point. Of the 18 titles he's had a chance to defend, he failed to show up for 5 of them (1 500 and 4 250s). That leaves 13 he tried to defend and he defended just 3 (Dubai x 2 and Beijing x 1). This raises his percentage to approx. 23% still lower than the rest of the top 4. Moreover he failed to defend his one GS title and all 5 of the Masters he won before this year despite showing up to defend them.

    But if Djokovic aspires to match Federer and Nadal's achievements, he's going to have to learn to defend his big titles as much as they have done if he wants to stay consistently on top.
     
    #33
  34. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Top marks for this insightful post.
     
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  35. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    And adding the one that slipped through.

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  36. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

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    1/1 so far :p
     
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  37. MaiDee

    MaiDee Semi-Pro

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    3 out of 18 and now 4 out of 19.
     
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  38. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Because Nadal has 10 slams and it is 4 years since Nadal first became no.1 (after consistently being no.2 for years before that) so he will he held to higher standards. It has been just a little over 6 months since Novak got to no.1 and he only has 5 slams. Lol.
     
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  39. Homeboy Hotel

    Homeboy Hotel Hall of Fame

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    This will be equally as shocking for one spaniard if you took clay out of the equation.
     
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  40. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

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    Hard to believe that Rafa has never defended a non-clay title. I was aware of the statistic before, but just thinking about it, it's so hard to believe.
     
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  41. celoft

    celoft Guest

    He won't defend Wimbledon. Pretty sure of that.
     
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  42. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    Nadal doesn't win many hardcourt titles per year, so it seems logical that he would never defend one. Makes perfect sense.
     
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  43. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Novak will defend Rafa's RG title this year.
     
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  44. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Why? Nadal is a dirtballer. The fact that he has ever even won anything off of clay is a miracle in itself,so it's no coincidence that he rarely ever wins titles off of it. Nadal has not won a title off of clay since October of 2010. He's pathetic off the dirt(and on it too these days)and always will be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
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  45. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Andy will defend Novaks's WO title this year.
     
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  46. Netzroller

    Netzroller Semi-Pro

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    Why do people care so much about 'defending' titles. I think the whole idea is a concept that in itself doesn't make much sense.
    I mean, is the title worth more because you have won it the previous year and worth less if you have won it 2 years ago!? What is that based on?

    Let's say there are 2 events and you win each 3 times alternating. Then you have zero defenses. Let's say you now win the one 3 times and then the other one 3 times, then you have the same amount of titles but defended 4 titles - is this really a greater achievement?
    And isn't the common consensus that winning great variety of titles rather than only certain events is a great achievement because it shows that one is able to succed under different conditions. Let's say Rafa had defended his Australian Open title and not won the US Open would that be greater? Or if Federer had defended his US Open in 2009 rather than winning Roland Garros?
    Alright, winning all the titles and winning them all again next year is the ultimate achievement - but as long as there are still titles you haven't won I would always chose achieving new goals over things you have already done...
     
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  47. fednad

    fednad Hall of Fame

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    Oh man, you had me in splits there.....
     
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  48. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Yep. Just like he defended Fed's AO title the last two years.
     
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  49. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    He needs it. More actually.
     
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  50. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Why not?

    10char
     
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