Do call me English!

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by MaxT, Jul 3, 2006.

  1. MaxT

    MaxT Rookie

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    Murry is not returning the love to the English public. "I was born a Scott, I am just really really unhappy when people call me English," and then his ill wish on the English football team.

    Not being from Europe this both surprised and intrigued me. I knew of the issues with Ireland, but Scotland too? Obvious Murry was not kidding. He knew how much endorsement dollar he was losing by ticking off the majority, at the beginning of a budding career.
     
  2. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Most of the folks in Scotland did not support England's World Cup team. It's a bit like someone from Braves terrritory not supporting the Red Sox. There's a bit of "up yer arse" there too. :) Regardless, Murray is very popular in England.

    Of course, now that he is imploding while playing Bags, he might be loved as much as Henman was. :)

    -Robert
     
  3. BaseLineBash

    BaseLineBash Hall of Fame

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    Just because your country was conquered by England doesn't mean you think of yourself as a Brit. I sure wouldn't.
     
  4. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Since each Scot gets about 1700 English Pounds more per year back from the Labour government than the average Englishman, I suspect the losers are winning. :)

    -Robert
     
  5. Ripper

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    Murray is British, not English.
     
  6. BaseLineBash

    BaseLineBash Hall of Fame

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    No...He's Scottish with GB rule.
     
  7. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Bwuahahahahaha! Stop it already, I'm rollin' on the floor with this. :)

    I'm staying in England with a Scot married to an English lady. He's also a bloody TORY! He'd probably get lynched if he went back to Glasgow. :)

    -Robert
     
  8. jaykay

    jaykay Professional

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    I don't get it...

    Can somebody explain this to me ---

    Murray's country is listed as 'Great Britain'.
    (Of course, he prefers to call himself a 'Scot')

    The World Cup Team was from 'England'.

    And then there is the 'United Kingdom'.

    GBR, UK, England are used interchangeably. What is which?

    I don't know the answer and I'm genuinely curious (am not trying to be sarcastic here).
     
  9. punch

    punch Semi-Pro

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    no...England is used just for the English, it's almost like a territory, the lower 3/4 of the English/Scottish Isle is English. GBR is Scotland and England combined and UK is too. Maybe it (GBR) includes Northern Ireland too, not Ireland though I don't think.

    So....

    England = just the English portion of that Isle

    GBR and UK is England, Scotland and I THINK Northern Ireland combined, which is why they would call Murray a Brit.
     
  10. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Yes Northern Ireland is part of Great Britain.
     
  11. llama

    llama Rookie

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    The United Kingdom is made up of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. And each country has it's own distinct identity. As a Canadian, I fully understand Murray's insistence on being identified as Scottish. Both Canada and Scotland have to live overshadowed by other countries, this tends to make us nationalistic. It is inborn in us to protect our identity, and probably not understood by either England or the US.
     
  12. Simon Cowell

    Simon Cowell Rookie

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    That's pretty interesting. I've always felt that comparison was accurate as well ( U.S.=England, Canada = Scotland). But, I know a lot of Glasgow Rangers fans who support the English national team. The thing I don't understand is there is a great tendency for Canadians to bash Americans yet Canada gets all of its culture from the U.S. I also felt there was a massive inferiority complex from the people when I visited Toronto.
     
  13. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

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    It's simple, England and Scotland are both part of Great Britain, but Murray is from Scotland, not England; that's all he's saying.
     
  14. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    It's brutally unfair to the Scots to compare their relationship vis a vis England with Canada's to the US.

    When the English decided they wanted Scotland's resources, landbase, etc., for their own exploitation, they were first told to go to hell, then were fought against bravely and patriotically for ages. The sons of Scotland shed their blood and gave their all so that they wouldn't be ridden over roughshod. Though England had much superior force, and the invasion was inevitable, the Scottish heritage and their history of pride and resistance in the face of overwhelming force has much to recommend it, and Scottish citizens should indeed still hold their heads high and defiant.

    When the Americans decided they wanted Canada's resources, landbase, etc., American corporations issued a few checks, and Canada couldn't prostitute itself off fast enough. America conquered Canada without ever firing a shot, and Canada has been little more than America's warehouse for natural resource exploitation and political sock puppet for a century now. US interests plunder Canada raw, and Canadians sit idly and humbly by and watch as their forests, mineral stores, fossil fuels, and wildlife are stuffed into sacks and sent off for profit.

    Scotland deserves a prouder analogy.
     
  15. Hartzy

    Hartzy Rookie

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    This can be explained by ethnicity.

    England generally has English people (even though if you've been to London you might not find a real one!) The English are a germanic people from the areas of Saxony in Northern Germany and Jutland, the main part of Denmark. When they arrived at Britain, they pushed the Britons (the Celtic peoples of the island) out of the area now known as England. The Britons that were pushed out and stayed on the island became the Welsh and the Scottish.

    Due to the maintaining of pride, even though today it is Great Britain, joining Wales, England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, many things remain separate in sporting events.
     
  16. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    But they have to put up with thar bloody weather. I spent a summer in Dundee and didn't wear a tee shirt or shorts once. They deserve every penny of it.
     
  17. BigboyDan

    BigboyDan Semi-Pro

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    Actually, Grimjack has it right...
     
  18. llama

    llama Rookie

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    How typically American. Why don't you study some history. America tried to invade Canada on three separate occasions and was defeated at every try. And you may smugly assume that we are your "warehouse", but would probably shocked to find out that Canada owns more American companies, than vice-versa. But, of course,that would never be known in the US. We have a saying up here "Let the *******s Freeze in the Dark" and it just might be closer than you think.
     
  19. jaykay

    jaykay Professional

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    Whoa! That's real harsh, GrimJack.
     
  20. Taram_Nifas

    Taram_Nifas Rookie

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    ....

    I'm a little lost Politically (though oddly enough I think have a better grasp of it than most other Americans), I think the Isles are called The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland which includes England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

    On the whole issue, however if we are talking about ethnicity then I could understand. Like the Philippines, I was born in Cebu and I think all the people in Luzon are turds :mrgreen: and should leave us alone, I wouldn't want to be called Tagalog and get annoyed at people when they do.

    It is normal for a Scotsman not to support the English World Cup Team, England and Scotland are probably rivals. Though I'm still confused as to how England, Scotland, Wales could still send their own World Cup Teams.. Sounds like Quebec sending their own Hockey Team to the Olympics...
     
  21. jaykay

    jaykay Professional

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    Thanks. This helps. So, this is what the UK encompasses...

    What is GBR then?
     
  22. MHK

    MHK New User

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    Just to confuse matters more! - England, Scotland, and Wales have their own football, rugby, cricket teams, and commonwealth teams etc. also. However, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but in most sports other than football, e.g. rugby, Ireland has a united team which includes players from both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    On the issue of Murray, I don't think Murray minds being called British because he plays under the GB tag and has always supported people like Henman. However, it is when people call him English, as if it is interchangeable with GB, that it annoys him. He never can be English, Welsh or Northern Irish - either Scottish, British or indeed both!

    And GBR stands for Great Britain - it is the island that includes Scotland, England and Wales alone - excludes Northern Ireland. So in Davis Cup, Ireland would have their own team also.
     
  23. llama

    llama Rookie

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    How typically American. Your arrogance and language is appalling - but why am I not surprised. Is it any wonder we would want to distance ourselves from you? Why don't you study some history. America tried to invade Canada on three separate occasions and was defeated at every try.

    If it makes you feel so important to strut around with your insults, go ahead.
     
  24. Simon Cowell

    Simon Cowell Rookie

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    90% of the Canadian population lives within 50 miles of the U.S. border. Enough said. You're trying to distance yourself from the U.S.? Doesn't seem like it to me. Try moving more towards the north pole. Canadians hate Americans because we don't acknowledge them or take them seriously. Enjoy the frozen parking lot. BTW, can you suggest me some fine Canadian literature? Oh wait, there is none! LOL.
     
  25. llama

    llama Rookie

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    And you wonder why you ring your hands and cry, "Why oh why does the World hate us?"

    Mordechai Richler - but your probably to uneducated to know.
     
  26. llama

    llama Rookie

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    How do we distance ourselves?- easily. We have class.

    Your insults just amply display exactly what you are. No need for me to reply.
     
  27. Simon Cowell

    Simon Cowell Rookie

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    To uneducated to know huh? That's why your sentence has errors. It's supposed to be "but you're probably too uneducated to know" not "but your probably to uneducated to know"

    ^^Wow, must be that fine Canadian educational system. Please stop before you continue to make a fool of yourself.
     
  28. RiosTheGenius

    RiosTheGenius Hall of Fame

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    not quite sure what Canadian literature has to do with what we're on about... but have you thought that perhaps the Canadian live closer to the border in their majority to escape the brutally cold weather of the north?.. maybe too much ethnocentric ego on your side?..I mean, pressuming canadians want to be close to the US?
     
  29. Simon Cowell

    Simon Cowell Rookie

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    That's not what I'm assuming. llamas is the typical Canadian with an inferiority complex who hates everything American. It's probably due to the fact this his beloved sport hockey wouldn't survive a minute without American teams or money. Or also that a Canadian NHL team hasn't won the Stanley Cup since the early 90's. It also hurts more because hockey is not even acknowledged as a major sport here. It gets coverage on OLN. He is also emotionally unstable due to the fact there are no great Canadian tennis players competing for grand slams, unlike the country to the south of him. Canadians get their culture from us and everything else, so it's natural for him to have an identity crisis.
     
  30. RiosTheGenius

    RiosTheGenius Hall of Fame

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    I just don't understand why you generalize so much "typical canadian"... I think you just make your country look bad with your comments, I'm sure the other americans in this board are very embarrassed of your comments right now.
    I'm sorry but I think you have a bad attitude and if you're ever abroad I 'd recommend you leave that attitude of yours in the States cuz otherwise you might not be very welcome. .... but you're in the US so, why would you go anywhere else right, you have it all there where you are and the best culture, the best food, best literature, best everything, you even fart like vanilla, it rains bottled water, the grass is green, and the girls are pretty.

    as for the Canadian guy.... just read my signature and do that bud.
     
  31. llama

    llama Rookie

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    First of all I do acknowledge my spelling error. I will put it down to reading the hate-filled posts and, though hating to admit it, feeling anger towards such unwarranted nastiness.

    And on perusal of this thread I am at a loss to understand the hatred spewed towards us as a country and myself. In my original post I never said one insulting thing about the USA. I stated a fact. That we - as a country one-tenth the size of yours will be overlooked. That - acknowledging the fact that most of the USA could care less about Canada - you would not understand that. I certainly wasn't prepared for the vileness of the responses. I understand that you know nothing of our history or of how we became a country. I don't understand why you must be insulting.

    Does this make you feel important? To bluster and brag and insult? Fine - if it makes you feel superior; if you feel that you must - at every conceivable moment - make sure that everyone knows how VASTLY superior you are, do so. You take nothing away from me or from us. You know nothing of our way of life, our government, our beliefs, our morals. I would wager a guess that your knowledge of our country comes from the rantings of people like Bill O'Reilley. What a fount of (mis)information he is. I pity you. How sad it must be to live in such isolation, never looking further than your own noses. Always believing that everything American - simply because it is American - must be so much better than anything anyone else would have to offer. You miss so much.

    Do Canadians want to be so near the US? Most of us probably don't give you that much thought. You might be shocked to find out that we don't think of you all that much, just as you, as you have made vividly clear, don't think of us, except to laugh at, and insult us. It's been my experience that that is the usual practise of the insecure.
     
  32. BaseLineBash

    BaseLineBash Hall of Fame

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    While some are on the Canadian and U.S. heat, I just want to point out that The United States of a America is Greatest Country and we're just over 200 years old mind you. Our politics and leaders here should not reflect the people that live is this country, we are a VERY empathetic people, and as a whole we want best for everybody in the world. And another thing to remember, if anything goes down outside our borders, we've got your back, cause thats what we do. Happy early 4th.:D
     
  33. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    Ehm..don't you mean..sympathetic people?!?;)
    Happy 4th July to everybody who celebrates it!!:D
     
  34. BaseLineBash

    BaseLineBash Hall of Fame

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    No I mean empathetic,but we are sympathetic as well, "1 : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it
    2 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this"
     
  35. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    Ah..ok.Sorry,it has a slightly different meaning in my language.
     
  36. 9000tennis

    9000tennis Rookie

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    Didn't Murray wear a sweatband with a Scottish flag on it today?

    And I agree with the people saying Scotland is a proud people, and many Scots have a difficult relationship with England. I went to Edinburgh earlier this year and almost everywhere I looked I saw something directly linked to the Scottish heritage. This including a funny t-shirt saying " I support 2 teams - Scotland and anyone who plays England". :D
     
  37. arosen

    arosen Hall of Fame

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    I can't help but notice the lack of tennis in this tennis thread. How did we go from Murray to Canada v.s. US? Speaking of Murray, I don't pretend to know how important it can be for Murray to insist on being a Scot. I've been to Perth, Glasgo, Dundee, and I loved the people there. However, I would rather he talked about what he is going to do about his fitness and why he is out of breath after every 10 point rally. Scottish or not, he looks unfit for a top tier tennis player.
     
  38. RiosTheGenius

    RiosTheGenius Hall of Fame

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    I pressume this wasn't for me right??????... though I have the feeling that your post might have been intended to be for Simon.

    just be careful when you cuote people, and please edit that.
     
  39. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    GRIMJACK POSTED

    "When the Americans decided they wanted Canada's resources, landbase, etc., American corporations issued a few checks, and Canada couldn't prostitute itself off fast enough. America conquered Canada without ever firing a shot, and Canada has been little more than America's warehouse for natural resource exploitation and political sock puppet for a century now. US interests plunder Canada raw, and Canadians sit idly and humbly by and watch as their forests, mineral stores, fossil fuels, and wildlife are stuffed into sacks and sent off for profit."


    You understand the Canadian resourses-for-profit sell off to the USA better than most Canadians do and seem to care more than most Canadians do. There are a select few of already rich Canadians making billions more dollars selling out the futures of their grandchildren...and everyone elses. Too bad far-sightedness wasn't part of the evolutionary process.

    You should send what's in your post to the editor of the Globe & Mail, Canada's national newspaper or to the Ottawa Citizen. Canadians might listen to what an American is saying about us.

    A country is best seen when viewed from abroad.
     
  40. diegaa

    diegaa Hall of Fame

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    Feña, isnt it this way?
    GBR: england + wales + scotland. gbr is the island.
    UK: GBR + n.ireland + some remaining colonies.

    The UK goes to the sports events as a whole, except football and rugby, i believe (and thats why they dont show up with a UK football teamon the olymics).
    On a side note, when ive been to scotland, the locals always cheered me up about maradona´s handball goal. so this confirms (partially) that they hate the english team...
     
  41. Ant Music

    Ant Music New User

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    England/UK/Great Britain and her colonies:

    GB = England, Scotland, Wales.

    UK = England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Her Majestys Commonwealth = Antigua and Barbuda,Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus ,Dominica,Fiji Islands, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, India, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, New Zealand, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, Western Samoa.

    If it wasn't for the French, we would still have the North American colony on that list:evil: General Lafayette has a lot to answer for.
     
  42. diegaa

    diegaa Hall of Fame

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    so i was right.:)
     
  43. Caswell

    Caswell Semi-Pro

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    If it wasn't for Howe deciding to take Philadelphia instead of joining Burgoyne to take the Hudson, the war would've been over before France came in. I think your own boy has something to answer for :p
     
  44. Phil

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    Do I sense a bit...just a TAD of that Canadian inferiority complex seeping through??

    C'mon, there's certainly WORSE fates than being OWNED by the USA. Hell, you could still be "British"! We love ya all, ya big Canuck (that's when we stop that moment or two in our lives to acknowledge your existence)...and I would never...EVER refer to Canada as our 51st State. That's cause it's...just...not...TRUE;)

    And here's a fact: Pamela Anderson now has DUEL Canadian/American citizenship. We are so proud to be able to call a Canadian-born sister one of our own now. And Mike Meyers, John Candy, Michael J. Fox, Larry Walker...the list of contributions to our great culture from our friends up North just goes on...I am so...so...so PROUD to be your neighbor!
     
  45. jaykay

    jaykay Professional

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    Thank you. This clears the cobwebs of confusion on this subject.
     
  46. diegaa

    diegaa Hall of Fame

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    how about the falkland islands? whats their status?
     
  47. Nictu

    Nictu New User

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    En fait, je crois que sympatique et empathique sont presque identiques en anglais... ils nous ont "volé" beaucoup de mots...

    Je dis ça comme ça...
     
  48. Nictu

    Nictu New User

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    Your original post was interesting but your arrogance is indeed out of place.
     
  49. Phil

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    A humorous take on the subject, from the "British" press:

    WORLD CUP'S MADE US A DISUNITED KINGDOM
    Tony Parsons
    WIMBLEDON joy? Why's that, then? That pockmarked goon Andrew Murray is just Cristiano Ronaldo in a kilt.
    I know it feels like we have been here before, but here's what is different about this World Cup: for the first time in my life it feels like being British doesn't matter a damn.
    Ask yourself, when was the last time you saw a Union Jack?
    If you believe what you read in the papers, then Germany 2006 has made us a Disunited Kingdom. As England were courageously going down to the Lisbon wing of RADA, they were said to be celebrating in Scotland.
    Can it be true? The Scots may have cheered Big Phil's writhing, diving strolling players in the pubs, but did they truly feel that way in their hearts?
    The Anybody But England movement has to be more wind-up than genuine feeling, doesn't it? Aren't we all still British? Or not any more?
    TV ratings reveal that the Scots have tuned into the World Cup just as much as the English, but that they cheered for Anybody But The English (the Welsh are more ambivalent - but then they were with us as far back as Agincourt).
    I can't quite believe any thinking Scotsman can truly detest England, just as I can never understand how any thinking Englishman can express a hatred of Scotland.
    How can you dislike the country that gave the world Robert Louis Stevenson, Denis Law, Annie Lennox, porridge, Billy Bremner, Irvine Welsh, that fat bloke in Cracker, Bill Shankly, Matt Busby, Richard Jobson, North Sea oil and the most ruggedly gorgeous landscape on the planet?
    Scottish soldiers have distinguished themselves in every conflict this country has ever seen. The British empire would have been impossible without the sons of Scotland. In their hearts, most of the English have nothing but love and respect for Scotland. But the World Cup posed the question: do they honestly hate our Sassenach guts?
    The football certainly increased tensions. Was Gordon Brown a jock Judas for saying that he would be supporting England? Is the acne-ravaged Andrew Murray a chippy sourpuss for saying he would not? Or merely a stout Braveheart, a Scottish patriot with a Saltire sweatband - Mel Gibson with lousy skin?
    Murray later desperately backtracked on his anti-English remarks, but it felt like craven hypocrisy during Wimbledon. Yes, I bet he was weeping all over his sporran when Rooney got sent off.
    Newsnight conducted an interesting experiment that suggested things are not as bad as pus-chops Murray would have us believe.
    For the price of about two-and-a-half licence fees, a brave Newsnight reporter bought a car, decked it out with English flags, painted the cross of St George on the bonnet and drove it around Scotland.
    MOST Scots gave a friendly wave and wished the English lads well in their doomed World Cup adventure.
    For a Sassenach who loves Scotland, it was all quite moving.
    A man in a kilt, who looked about as genuinely jock as a packet of porridge oats, said he hoped they beat Portugal - although his wee lad, also in full jock kit, laughingly said he hoped the English lost.
    But the banter was good-natured, until the brave little English van went all the way to Glasgow's Parkhead, where hooded vandals kicked in the windows.
    But mostly the Newsnight experiment revealed a Scotland that was proud, confident and enlightened enough to be well above crass Sassenach-bashing. And you wonder where that leaves the most successful Scottish sportsman of the day.
    If mouthy Andrew Murray hates the English as much as he seems to, then he should take up a sport that is a little less middle-class, a little less poncy, a little less cucumber-sandwiches-with-the-crusts-cutoff. Something a little less English. Try croquet, Jimmy.
     
  50. BaseLineBash

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    "I'm a Brit when I'm winning and a Scot when I'm losing"-Andy Murray
     

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