Do most of you swing HARD?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Ronnie92, Jan 28, 2007.

  1. Ronnie92

    Ronnie92 Banned

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    For the most part, do you guys swing full out, or do you swing casually? I've been told I swing too hard, but I'm positive that most pros swing very hard.
     
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  2. Sagittar

    Sagittar Hall of Fame

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    i take a full swing 95% of the time
     
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  3. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    Pros swing hard because they do not miss very often. YOu are swinging to hard when you miss every on every 4th shot or so. I swing hard, but that is just because I miss more often when I don't because a lack of topspin.
     
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  4. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    I think full is different from swinging hard. I almsot always take a full swing except when taking on the rise or something like that.
     
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  5. Ronnie92

    Ronnie92 Banned

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    Yeah, I've noticed that when you get lazy, you ironically hit much deeper (and usually out as a result).
     
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  6. Sagittar

    Sagittar Hall of Fame

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    95% full swing , 100% hard swing , it's always hard but not always a full one ..
     
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  7. Amone

    Amone Hall of Fame

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    I hit about 80% on (rather flat) my backhand side for a passing shot, 40-50% for a rally shot, but about 60% max speed on my forehand. I can't swing very fast on a serve, but on a groundstroke my fastest swing tends to connect horribly and just go flying (straight up from the framejob) so I don't swing near that fast if I'm not feeling 'in the zone.'
     
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  8. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    That is mostly the same for me. Otherwise I would hit it flat into the back fence. The OP though is being told he is swinging too hard and that is either because 1) He is making a lot of errors from lack of accuracy or 2) His friends don't like him blasting winners past them. In case #1 he needs to either take a little off, or swing just as hard and work on putting more topspin on the ball.
     
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  9. Ronnie92

    Ronnie92 Banned

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    I'm making more of a transition from an Eastern to a semi-western. I think that is going to help me get more topspin, definetly.
     
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  10. Sagittar

    Sagittar Hall of Fame

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    will help you get more topspin and swing more freely and harder also without the ball landing long ..
     
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  11. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    Not to mention make you that much closer to being Nadal:p
     
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  12. Techniques

    Techniques Rookie

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    My friend found it very hard to change grip to get more top spin. If it doesn't work out it is better to stick with what you have.
     
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  13. Solat

    Solat Professional

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    i have been described as a brute and just try to bash every ball

    but thats whats fun in my mind

    unforced error count is way high but so is huge winners lol just lately its been too many from column A
     
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  14. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    i swing at 60% most of the time. when i'm hitting really well, then its below that.
     
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  15. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    I'll swing hard only if I need to.
    Power is just one aspect.
     
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  16. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I swing fast. I do not try to muscle the ball but instead use the energy I create from my stance, foot pressure against the court, and the natural motion or kinetic energy chain created from the bending of the knees, the backswing, the rotation, and the comeback into the ball.

    Rarely do I feel I am using muscle to hit the ball. It is simply a fast swing generated from the lower body.

    I also use what TravelrJam indicated on another post. I use motion and energy to hit the ball.

    Case in point, my serve.

    My shoulder, arm, hand, wrist and overall body state is relaxed. Energy is transferred up from the ground using my leg muscles to generate power. My leg muscles are taxed but my upper body is relaxed and uses the muscular and kinetic energy from the lower body to penetrate the ball.
     
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  17. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    I would swing with even less power until I am in the position to put away a forehand shot. Then I would swing at about 70% of my strength :)
     
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  18. andreh

    andreh Professional

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    If by hard u mean muscling the ball, then no. I try to stay relaxed and power will come from the backswing and body rotation.
     
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  19. dave333

    dave333 Hall of Fame

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    I relax. this by itself brings a lotta power.
     
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  20. blubber

    blubber Rookie

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    Bungalo Bill, it's nice to see you post again, I haven't read one in a while. I just wanted to thank you for some of the advice you've written on these boards over the last few years. When I find something interesting or helpful in the forums I usually copy and paste it in a word document. When I was going through those clippings recently I noticed a lot of the stuff I copied was from you. One piece of advice that helped with my fh motion was to think of petting a dog. That really helped me visualize things despite not having pets. This tip allowed me to get the butt cap pointing in the direction of the ball. As a result I'm pulling rather than pushing the racquet forward, creating a fast and powerful stroke.
    With your help I made a big jump in my game this past year.
     
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  21. gb.tennis.junky

    gb.tennis.junky Rookie

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    hum...
    well, i wouldn't want to seem pretentious or anything, but as some people are naturally heavy hitters and don't have to go all out, which would be unconsiderate.
    i see some hit the ball at about 95% of their strength, it's a risky game!
    focusing too much on power means less control and thus leading to too many unforced errors.
    i suggest only hitting at 75% max, unless you're in a good day, you can go for a little more.
     
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  22. shojun25

    shojun25 Professional

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    my swings are usually up to long-medium strokes depending on the speed of the ball. for my backhand its easier to do full swings (being 2handed bh), but more my forehand, it seems as though i unwillingly go for more medium swings to control the ball
     
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  23. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    I also completely agree with what BB said. When I try muscling the ball, the results are worse because i'm not actually hitting as hard or as efficiently.
     
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  24. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    I agree that not swinging as hard as possible is better for your game, but don't you guys find it a bit torturous to have to hold back on your swing all the time? Almost makes it no fun... Don't you just want to smack that ball whenever you get a chance?!
     
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  25. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks, glad you are using the tips wisely.
     
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  26. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    You can accelerate the arm going forward from your legs and torso (especially the stomach muscles. These are the muscles that really should be working. If you have a relaxed arm, the swing of the arm should be accelerating because it recieved a lot of energy to go forward. If you muscle the ball with the arm it is very difficult to use the energy your body created. Most of the time your swing actually slows down.
     
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  27. Kabob190

    Kabob190 Rookie

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    im always told that i am swinging too hard by my coach. but you just cant beat that feeling of hitting the ball as hard as you can, getting it right in the center of your strings.
     
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  28. ubel

    ubel Professional

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    I try my best not to.. Swinging hard gives me the mental image of someone muscling the ball, which is imo not the most helpful way to think of your swing. I do, however, try to swing relatively fast and my optimal consistency is at about 70-75% of my maximum swing speed, as people have stated :)
     
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  29. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    True, you can't beat it, but how many times do you actually win a point that way? What is even better is when you learn to generate energy from the ground up to flow through your body and hit a ball with a fast swing speed but with very little "muscle".

    For the most part, it is timing and learning to generate pace from your legs and torso that provides a player with the best shot feeling of all. It feels like butter as the ball pops off the strings.
     
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  30. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    Trying to swing fast (with proper form) seems a good idea to me, first to push the opponent back, second to keep the ball in play and lastly to ...protect your arm.

    I.e. I've done some calculations when swinging at 1 m/s vs 10 m/s and in the first case your arm actually get pushed back at 1.38 m/s while in the second it still maintains its forward momentum at 1.42 m/s!

    http://www.tennis.com/gear/2013/01/...eight-how-heavy-too-heavy/46227/#.UQwqtx1bNes

    Law of Conservation of Momentum:
    What that means is that the two momentum (of the racket and the ball, after the impact) have to be equal and with a heavier racket, the ball's speed will be increased, while the racket will not slow down as much (being more stable in your hands, as opposed to lighter frames).

    Now that got me thinking? Which one of the two would be affected more?
    The crux of the problem being:

    1. Would we be hitting much harder with a heavier racket?
    or
    2. Would the heavier racket be drastically more stable?

    What's your guess?

    So, I've dusted off my rusty physics (ahem, googled it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision) and the answer is:

    2. We’d be hitting about 18% harder and the heavier racket(by 100g) would be about 13% more stable.

    Follow-up, a bit more realistic calculations, with the ball at around 60g and considering that the pros hit in average around 75-85 mph and the hardest at around 100 mph, so they probably are able to swing the racket faster, say at 10 m/s:

    Example A:
    Ball: mass = 0.06 kg , velocity = 30 m/s (around 60 mph)
    Racket: mass = 0.5 kg, velocity = -10 m/s

    After collision:
    Ball: velocity = -41.4 m/s (about 93 mph)
    Racket: velocity = - 1.42 m/s (The racket continues to swing forward at around 73% of the original speed)
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Example B:
    Ball: mass = 0.06 kg , velocity = 30 m/s (around 60 mph)
    Racket: mass = 0.6 kg, velocity = -10 m/s

    After collision:
    Ball: velocity = -50 m/s (around 100 mph an increase of 18% when hitting with the heavier racket)
    Racket: velocity = -2.7 m/s (The heavier racket continues to swing forward at around 86% of the original speed. Hence more stable, less impact on the arm and inducing longer swings/easier to go more through the ball as opposed to coming over too soon)

    I’ve done some calculations (based on the equations bellow) and it seems that by adding 100g to a 500g racket, one makes it 27.5% more stable when hitting a ball that weighs about 20gs and comes at us with about 30m/s, while we swing at it with 1 m/s. If you want to check my calculations here they are:

    Example A:
    Ball: mass = 0.02 kg , velocity = 30 m/s
    Racket: mass = 0.5 kg, velocity = -1 m/s

    After collision:
    Ball: velocity = -29.61 m/s
    Racket: velocity = 1.38 m/s
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Example B:
    Ball: mass = 0.02 kg , velocity = 30 m/s
    Racket: mass = 0.6 kg, velocity = -1 m/s

    After collision:
    Ball: velocity = -29.67 m/s
    Racket: velocity = 1 m/s
    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    Equations
    One-dimensional Newtonian


    Consider two particles, denoted by subscripts 1 and 2. Let m1 and m2 be the masses, u1 and u2 the velocities before collision, and v1and v2 the velocities after collision.
    The conservation of the total momentum demands that the total momentum before the collision is the same as the total momentum after the collision, and is expressed by the equation

    m1u1 +m2u2 = m1v1+m2v2

    Likewise, the conservation of the total kinetic energy is expressed by the equation

    m1u1u1/2 +m2u2u2/2= m1v1v1/2+m2v2v2/2

    These equations may be solved directly to find vi when ui are known or vice versa. However, the algebra involved can be cumbersome[dubious – discuss]. An alternative solution is to first change the frame of reference such that one of the known velocities is zero. The unknown velocities in the new frame of reference can then be determined and followed by a conversion back to the original frame of reference to reach the same result. Once one of the unknown velocities is determined, the other can be found by symmetry.
    Solving these simultaneous equations for vi we get:

    v1= (u1(m1-m2)+2m2u2)/(m1+m2)

    v2=(u2(m2-m1)+2m1u1)/(m1+m2)
     
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  31. MarinaHighTennis

    MarinaHighTennis Professional

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    I hit 60-70% more focused onpoint construction, moving the ball or giving my opponent a hard time i only hit 100% for a winner
     
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  32. MarinaHighTennis

    MarinaHighTennis Professional

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    Not really, fun to me is outfoxing
     
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  33. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    I try to swing as soft as possible yet still hit a decent ball. One guy on an adjacent court said that it looks like I'm not doing anything. Most will also say that I have good groundstrokes. But since I have no vids to post, y'all can say I suck. haha
     
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  34. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    1 m/s is at most a drop shot hit from close to the net. Yes, the racket will go backwards in that case as you take the speed off the ball.
     
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  35. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    #35
  36. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I hit between 70% and 90% depending on situation. My average is probably about 75%. I go for the 90% shot only when I have a good ball to work with or when serving with a lead.

    Rally balls are in the 70-80% range to maintain consistency.

    Key is always accelerate form 0 to 70% or 0 to 80% etc...

    Also, it is more fast than hard. As in 0 to X MPH of racket head speed.

    I think from 0% to 75% of max speed can still hit a deep penetrating ball if it is timed well.
     
    #36
  37. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    The kinetic chain is a must for effortless power, but the pros don't hit every ball as hard as they can. They still hit hard because they're pros, but they can hit harder than they do. You don't want to hit too hard or too soft; hit at the right pace for whatever tactic you're using. Control >>power.
     
    #37
  38. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    I swing fast, not hard. What changes is my swing path, depending on how much margin I want to put on the ball and how much speed I want to give it.
     
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  39. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    Wow, way to resurrect a SIX year old dead thread.
     
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  40. hyperion99

    hyperion99 Semi-Pro

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  41. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    Lol I guess I haven't been active on this forum lately :)
     
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  42. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    True and I've done a fallacy there, I wasn't comparing the same balls (one was 60g while the other was 20g) so the correct comparison (with 60g balls in both cases), seems to give (for a 1 m/s swing aka drop shot):

    Example A:
    Ball: mass = 0.06 kg , velocity = 30 m/s
    Racket: mass = 0.5 kg, velocity = -1 m/s

    After collision:
    Ball: velocity = -25.35 m/s (you are hitting slower then the incoming ball)
    Racket: velocity =5.6 m/s (your arm is pushed back)
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Example B:
    Ball: mass = 0.06 kg , velocity = 30 m/s
    Racket: mass = 0.6 kg, velocity = -1 m/s

    After collision:
    Ball: velocity = -26.36 m/s (you are hitting just 4% faster)
    Racket: velocity = 4.6 m/s (your raquet is 22% more stable)

    That means that at slow swings (aka drop shots), one just gets stability out of heavier raquets…No surprise there :)
     
    #42
  43. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    Haha. Didn't notice this thread was from 2007.
     
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  44. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    My fault, I've used the search feature, being curious to see what those Newtonian calculations might reveal (And actually initially I was looking for a figure for the swing speed to use in said calculations).
     
    #44
  45. johnchung907

    johnchung907 Rookie

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    Um... for me it kinda depends. I would say on my forehand side it would be about a 90%. On my backhand side it would really depend if I was using the one-handed or the two-handed. Since I can now almost hit the one-handed with regularity I use it on some occasions. On my 1 handed I would say about 100%. On my 2 handed it would be a 80%. Since the one-handed needs a lot more speed to get power I need to accelerate it more.
     
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  46. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    2007. Didn't catch that either.

    I've hit with thejackle, but it was the end of 2012, so five years after he posted on this thread. When I hit with him his shots didn't seem like 60% effort to me. He was hitting very solid stuff - very good player. We were both hitting hard. If he had another 40% on top of that, almost double, he'd be blowing balls through my body.
     
    #46
  47. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I know this is an old thread, but I want to add my opinion as well.

    I swing normally at about 60% on groundstrokes, up to 70% if I'm hitting cleanly. I don't need to go anymore then that because I simply don't like the margins that come with swinging out on every shot.

    That being said, when I do hit for about 90%+ just gunning for a winner, it's pretty big. Especially by comparison of my normal strokes.

    My serve on the other hand is all about generating the most RHS possible for the most consistent spin orientated shot I can get.

    -Fuji
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
    #47
  48. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    from the press box at davis cup in vancouver, looks like raonic is swinging at about 70% on most shots. garcia lopez working a lot harder with his arm
     
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  49. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Just a clarification, when I think about how hard I'm swinging I'm not thinking of it terms of arming or muscling the ball. 100% would still be an efficient swing utilizing the whole body, the kinetic chain, etc.

    I've been doing a lot of rallying in the last year, not much serving or many sets. I've really been trying to work on my ground game, developing points, and finishing points (which I currently suck at). The two guys I hit with the most hit very hard. I'm swinging hard on each shot. It may not be 100%, but it's up there. But I'm trying to be set-up, balanced, and in control when I swing. It can be quite challenging, but a blast when it comes together.
     
    #49
  50. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    if most of us are swinging at 50% or so perhaps we should be playing with heavier, headlight, racquets.
     
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