Do multi's have more control then natural gut?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by newyorkstadium, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    656
    Location:
    Rotherham, United Kingdom
    Looking at TWU, multi's have more spin, less power and higher stiffness. The same is true for syn gut.

    All these attributes are related to control.

    I know Natural gut has more feel and touch. That may be related to control, although I haven't researched it.
     
    #1
  2. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    20,849
    Location:
    Central Florida
    It all depends on tension really. In general, gut has more power and spin while multis have more control.
     
    #2
  3. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Florida
    Multis generally don't have more spin than gut. Some have about as much spin as gut and most have less. The feel and touch of gut definitely adds to the control. I was surprised by the advantage in durability gut has over synthetic multis. For me, that makes up for the price difference.
     
    #3
  4. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,458
    Gut is naturally more powerful than multis and so must be strung at a higher tension to get the same control. If you get the tension right, you should be able to get more power and spin with the same control.
     
    #4
  5. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    13,077
    I think the biggest difference between gut and mutli is their lifespan. While you can look at the numbers and make an initial deduction, once you start using a multi, it degrades in performance much more than a good natural gut. In summary, versus a high end multi, natural gut is often a less expensive option given its long play life.
     
    #5
  6. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    On the Baseline
    I agree with this one, the price/performance of a gut is better in the long run...
    I can get good control for about 7- 8 hours in a multi ($15) and I'm done with it, however using a gut ($30) I get 25 plus hours. The price difference is for a reason.
     
    #6
  7. Readers

    Readers Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    824
    No, I found gut has more control than most multi.
     
    #7
  8. Veninga

    Veninga Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    Netherlands
    if gut has more power and just a bit less control, why are we paying so much for multi's? even comfort is the same.

    what is the main reason?
     
    #8
  9. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    20,849
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Gut costs a lot of money.
     
    #9
  10. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    On the Baseline
    I desagree.
    In the long run, guts has better price/performance than multis when you compare a $30 or so gut with a $15 or so multi. The price difference is for a reason.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
    #10
  11. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    20,849
    Location:
    Central Florida
    My current multi costs just over $8/set when I buy it in the reel form. Since I typically break gut as quickly as multis, I don't see the advantage. Gut is also harder for me to string up.
     
    #11
  12. BlxTennis

    BlxTennis Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    I agreed. I started by trying over at least 15 types of Multi and they cost somewhere $10 - $18 a set. Multi lasts me about 2 weeks if I play twice a week for 2hrs - 3hrs each time. However, the same 1/2 set of gut(supra) lasts me for 4 months and counting. I am sticking with natural gut instead of multi for economic, comfort and feel reason.
     
    #12
  13. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    10,862
    What multi are you using?
     
    #13
  14. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    20,849
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Discho Microfibre 16
     
    #14
  15. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    On the Baseline
    Hard to believe. You are the first person who I've seen who reports this....Only VS ($43 a set) could breaks as fast as a multi does..... However, as I said before, $30 guts like Pacific Classic (I heard the same from Babolat Tonic $32) have way more playability duration (over 25 hours) than any multi (8 hours) I have playtested in the past, making the switch for me a no brainer.

    I understand you are a full bed multi string advocate as I was in the past, but I'm happy not to be anymore....After tons of playtesting, silverstring/classic, classic/silverstring, silverstring/power fiber or full bed classic is the way to go for me.
     
    #15
  16. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    13,077
    Just to add, if you're seriously frugal, string savers will extend the life of natural gut as well by a considerable amount. You just have to pay attention to your stringbed.
     
    #16
  17. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,520
    Location:
    clearing out my collection
    I think Mikeler is playing mostly on har-tru, which also takes a toll on gut & durability.

    For the majority of those that play on hard courts, that aren't string breakers, and that want either a multi or gut due to arm health; then yes, I agree they should be using Pacific gut. It is more durable than Babolat gut, it is playable until it breaks, and price/performance per hour, it will be more economical than any multi. (again, only if you don't break strings fast, and are trying to choose between a multi or gut).

    Honestly I get better control with gut over multi. Gut has reliable, consistent playability over time. Multi degrades and changes in playability, then breaks. Multi thus requires more restringing to maintain consistent playability. Gut plays soft at high tensions, so you can tension wherever you need it (60+ lbs) to maintain the control you want. Gut is a win-win (unless you play a lot on clay, or break it in under 10 hours, etc). Pacific classic 16 at $30 is a great deal, and Pacific Tough 16 at $38 is the best durability gut you can find.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
    #17
  18. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,832
    Location:
    UK
    What's the general view on Dunlop Silk?

    I've never broken a string before, so wouldn't consider myself a hard hitting string breaker.
     
    #18
  19. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    20,849
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I do play almost exclusively on Har-Tru. Wilson gut lasted me about 10-12 hours of match play the one time I used it this year when I was using the PK 7G. Contrast that with Discho Microfibre in the same frame. The only time I broke DM was about 10 hours in on a shank. Every other time I've cut it out.

    I've got Klip Legend full bed in one of my Exos [16 x 18] right now. After 2 sets, it looks pretty beat up. My Discho still looks good after about 6 hours of match play on it. Maybe it is the perfect string for me or the combination of my game and the surface, but I don't play any better with the Klip. So I'm not going to pay more and take more time to string with gut if it does not even last as long.


    Just my opinion after a few minutes of hitting with Silk, but it felt stiff and did not have any redeeming qualities that I could see.
     
    #19
  20. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    On the Baseline
    Exactly! The same experience here.... You couldn't put it more clearly! Your last paragraph says it all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
    #20
  21. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Northern CA
    FWIW... I've noticed that gut loses about 10% of it's initial tension very quickly (regardless of useage). I like full gut and am sticking with it, but this is my experience.
     
    #21
  22. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    It does, then it hangs there until it breaks.
    Far better tension maintenance than any other string ever devised.
     
    #22
  23. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Florida
    I used to think that, but I no longer think that's true if you string it right, use a spare racquet in unfavorable conditions, and use gut that has a good coating. Everything I'm saying is verified on my measurements with RacquetTune.

    I noticed what you are talking about when I first strung Klip Legend. This was during the summer, and I also noticed a drop in tension whenever I played in damp weather. It finally settled, but I think it eventually lost about 18% tension. Despite the tension loss it still played well.

    Now I'm using Pacific Classic and I don't notice that. I use a drop weight stringer, and this time I made sure I eased the weight down slowly and gave every string ample time to stretch (at least 10 seconds on the mains, and 30 seconds or more on the crosses). The weather is also more favorable now. After 5 hours of playing, I lost a total of 4.2% tension. Subjectively, it feels that way too because these strings are very hard to move right now.
     
    #23
  24. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Northern CA
    I also use RacquetTune. Here is what I found recently...

    I just bought two brand new Babolat Pure Drive racquets and had them both strung at 60# with Babolat VS Gut (natural color with BT7 coating). When I received the racquets I verified tension with RacquetTune and they both came in at 60.2 lbs.

    Over the course of the next month I only used one racquet for approximately 10 hours. Never hit with the other. Re-checked both with RacketTune... BOTH came in at 55.0 lbs. I still play fine at 55# but prefer the feel of 60#.

    It is what it is, the numbers don't lie.
     
    #24
  25. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Florida
    I just played with Pacific Classic yesterday at 97% humidity. That was a mistake. As I said in my previous post, the tension loss was 4-4.5% under dry conditions. After just one match in very humid conditions, it lost an additional 9%, bringing my total tension loss to around 13.5%.

    Fortunately, it still seems to play well because it was rather tight in the first place. However, I'll definitely have to be more careful from now on and leave my gut at home when it's very humid.
     
    #25
  26. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    20,849
    Location:
    Central Florida
    My Klip Legend has only lost 1.5 pounds of tension after 4 long hard hitting sets of singles.
     
    #26
  27. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Florida
    If it's dry conditions, I believe that. If you want to keep that way you'll have keep it at home if the humidity is high (ex. after a big rain).
     
    #27
  28. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    20,849
    Location:
    Central Florida
    It is at home as I type.
     
    #28
  29. acura9927

    acura9927 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    It has a tinny feel and bad control. I use NXT now and really like it.
     
    #29
  30. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    13,077
    no argument here. I will also add that the multis lose more than gut in all phases of their life.

    Bottom line, it's just personal preference.
     
    #30
  31. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Florida
    When I tried Klip Legend it lost about 18% tension, and Pacific Classic is already at 13-14% after 6 hours. The losses in tension were mainly due to moisture (playing under humid conditions and wet clay courts). I've played with multis that lost far less tension before they broke after 10-12 hours. Having said that, I do believe that gut maintains tension better than any other string if you keep it inside when it gets wet or humid.
     
    #31
  32. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    On the Baseline
    I'm really liking this thread...Pacific Classic is showing its edge over multis in all categories including price/ performance and window playability for most of the people who have written here. I live in mediterranean weather, so no issues with humidity and moisture for me. I switch to co-poly/multi when the rainy sesson comes.(Three months only)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
    #32
  33. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Florida
    For me Pacific Classic really stands out on comfort. I don't think I've tried another string that's as comfortable and easy on the arm. The susceptibility to moisture is the thing that really bothers me. Maybe I should try Klip Armour Pro or Babolat Tonic+BF w/BT7. I would be willing to give up a little of that comfort for weather resistance.
     
    #33
  34. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    On the Baseline
    I've been curious about Babolat Tonic too, but since Pacific Classic is working for me in the weather condition I live, I don't feel a drive to try it out.....Good luck with the playtesting....
    The other string that caught my attention was Pacific Tough ($39) when JT_2 said in this thread "is the best durability gut you can find"....Basically, there is $9 difference between these two, so the question is: how many extra hours can one get from Tough?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
    #34
  35. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    13,077
    How are you determining tension loss? Based on my experience, there isn't a multi made that can maintain tension like natural gut nor have I seen anything empirical that supports that anywhere.

    Tonic is considerably softer than Classic. I prefer the firmer feel of Classic.
     
    #35
  36. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    On the Baseline
    ^^^
    Same here...I like the firmer feel of Classic. Legend and VS are too soft for me.
     
    #36
  37. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Florida
    I use RacquetTune to measure tension and I log how much time I play. Every time I use gut when it's very humid or wet it loses tension. Other than that, gut maintains tension better than multis. Under the typcial conditions where I play, gut will lose more tension due to moisture alone.

    I'm going to try Tonic at some point. I heard that the new BT7 coating makes it stiffer than Classic. I guess I'll find out if that's true or not because my set of Tonic has BT7 printed on the bag. I think Classic is softer than Legend.
     
    #37

Share This Page