Do we really need Kuerten's good bye tour??

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Leublu tennis, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. Leublu tennis

    Leublu tennis Legend

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    I know that he is a beloved figure but really... Do we need all the hoop la, the good bye kisses, the continual WC, and more 1st round losses?

    OK he is a former #1 with 20 tournament wins and a record of 358 - 193 matches. So what? Is that something special? Look at Moya. Same age (31), also a former #1, also has 20 titles but he has a match record of 554-295 and is currently #14 in the world. Kuerten hasn't even played as many matches as Moya has won! And he has done didley in four years. He should have faded away by now, if he had the good grace to do it. The current promotional tour, thats the only explanation that fits, is ridiculous. Enough is enough.
     
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  2. Nadal_Monfils

    Nadal_Monfils Semi-Pro

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    I agree, he isn't good enough to even put up a competitive fight anymore and these wild cards could be more useful if they were given to a young up and comer rather than an old guy who can't even come close to winning a set.
     
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  3. Lionheart

    Lionheart Rookie

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    Regarding the Moya-Kuerten analogy, ever heard of career threatning injuries? Not playing for "some time" affects those stats...
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
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  4. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    The question you posed is do YOU need the goodbye tour. The answer you've given is no.

    I don't really see how it affects you.
     
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  5. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    He said goodbye to the tour 4 years ago. I give him credit for trying, but his demise has been slow and painful to follow. I'm happy it's going to be over soon.

    3 slams vs. 1 slam. The majors are everything in this sport.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
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  6. Nuke

    Nuke Hall of Fame

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    I don't think we need anybody's farewell tour. When you can't cut it anymore, just quit. It's lame to go around on tour just so everyone can honor you at each stop, especially when you're losing.
     
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  7. ScovilleJenkins

    ScovilleJenkins Rookie

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    i think its a nice thing to do for guga, since he was and is such a beloved player...also, these wildcards are mostly coming from clay tournaments, which were his stomping grounds...i don't think he'll be getting one to wimby or the us open....just let the man have his farewell tour
     
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  8. IvanYentl

    IvanYentl Rookie

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    If it were me, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be out there getting my *** kicked by some kid, after which I would blow kisses to the crowd? no thanks
     
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  9. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    Why not? What is wrong with doing something nice for retiring player.
     
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  10. Mikael

    Mikael Professional

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    It kinda looks bad if you can't make it competitive, I agree... I haven't seen him play this year and have to wonder why he is losing this badly.
     
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  11. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Whether he wins or loses is irrelevant, he'll still receive the respect he deserves given his success on the tour.
     
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  12. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    i think he absolutely deserves the recognition and wildcards. he was a role model on and off the court and deserves notice by those new to professional tennis.
     
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  13. Alexio92

    Alexio92 Professional

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    Maybe he just wants to play some competative tennis and have some fun for a while. You miss the sport after a while and im in no doubt he has been missing it aswell and that is why he is doing this.
     
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  14. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Kuerten was such a class act. I'm glad we get to say goodbye!
     
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  15. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    To me, Kuerten was way up there in terms of enjoyable players to watch. His strokes were very extreme, especially with such a lean body, and his attitude of course was phenomenal.

    His ridiculous body positions are what have actually made me teach my two protegees in the manner they are being taught now. The one handed backhand, truly, destroys the hip. Absolutely. GORGEOUS to watch, but painful to hit.

    I should be posting the lead protegees stroke production sometime late this summer, and i am sure it will provoke ALL kinds of wrath and loathing, vortexed vision, and futuristic, sudden change will do that. But this is a kid who should dominate the game of tennis for a long time. AND TO DATE, he is not playing tournaments. But like the Williams he is being carefully crafted and developed.

    His strokes are revolutionary and should promote tremendous imitation(unfortunately). It has taken six years for him to learn the one stroke that he is presently hitting and as far as I know, IT HAS never been used in professional tennis. Should be interesting, stay tuned. And I am not talking about a three handed backhand. OR AM I? In a way?
     
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  16. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    How does a one handed backhand destroy the hip? I heard it was his forehand technique that was involved in his hip problems.
     
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  17. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Guga wants to play. The public wants to salute him.
     
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  18. anointedone

    anointedone Banned

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    No we dont need it. It is too bad the ATP did not give him a little push to retire back in 2006 by not giving him wild cards then. He would probably be happy at this moment if they had and he were retired for atleast a good year and a half already, rather then pushing himself through futility for nothing, but unable to stop due to his addiction to something he is unable to do anymore and has been unable to do for awhile. Watching him play today is like watching an elderly on life support. It is sad and a waste.
     
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  19. 0range

    0range Hall of Fame

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    I thought his farewell tour is not really to do with us "doing something nice for a retiring player", but a retiring player doing something nice for his fans.

    For sure he knows he can't win no more.
     
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  20. strife726

    strife726 Rookie

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    Also, Guga was a year end #1. BIG difference between being #1 for a short time during the year. Not only 3 slams, he also one the year ending master vs the top 8 players, beating agassi and sampras back to back on hard court. With all do respect to Moya, he is not at Guga's level, even with a career ending injury.
     
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  21. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    He's had a great career no doubt but is it really worth him playing these events?

    I mean, he got destroyed 1 and 2 by Ljubicic on clay.. it's sad to see and whilst it's good to have a chance to say goodbye to the tour, maybe a little presentation at the French Open with family and at the scene of his biggest achievements might be a bit more appropriate.
     
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  22. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    LJUBICIC beat him 1 and 2 on clay?

    Good lord.

    I don't think anyone should play a goodbye tour if they are just going to get embarrassed out there. Agassi was in pain and sometimes had to sit down between points, but he was still good enough to win tough, long matches. That's a goodbye tour.
     
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  23. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    It doesn't look bad at all. Everyone who knows anything about tennis knows the injuries he's suffered and realizes what the situation is now. Yes, it's a bit melodramatic and his playing takes spots away from people who could actually contend (as discussed in another thread), but as long he wants to do it, I'll support his farewell tour.

    Guga had one of the most beautiful games during his peak, and he is one of the games most revered good guys. No one has anything bad to say about him He was all heart and exuberance. Just watching him play made you smile.

    He'll be gone for good soon enough. Let him have this without being negative. He's earned it.
     
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  24. RealityPolice

    RealityPolice Rookie

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    #24
  25. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    Check out how far out he stretched to hit his backhand. NOt that many other one handers don't do the same thing, but they TOO, will suffer the same fate. It is just something the body is NOT designed for. Meanwhile his forehand and everyone elses can literally be hit in the air, without the brutal twist on a foot and therefore a hip.

    So, what is the answer then? Two handed backhands suck, one handers are weak up high, and kill the hips and back and gluts. SO what is the answer? You tell me. It is so obvious, but so was what really happened in 9/11.

    All i know is, once my guy goes public, the game is going to go into the 21st century.
     
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  26. skip1969

    skip1969 Legend

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    i don't mind, as he was such a popular player. his popularity transcended national boundaries, too. the whole 'farewell tour' thing is played out, sure. agassi's seemed to drag on forever. but it's the trend these days, so . . .

    at least guga is only popping up at a few clay court events, where he made his biggest mark on tour. he'll be gone after roland garros, and that's right around the corner.
     
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  27. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    He needs one, but at this time, it is meaningless.

    Most people have forgotten where he is at.
     
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  28. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

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    I like the idea. Winning isn't everything, there truly is a component of how you play the game. Nobody may ever play it like Kuerten in my life time, again. So, I want to see while it lasts.

    I'm interested in seeing if they will pair him against Nadal for his last match.
     
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  29. KFactor27

    KFactor27 New User

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    I also think it's cool that he's gettin wild cards. I enjoy watching him play whether he wins or not.
     
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  30. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    I feel it isn't fair that he gets a wildcard to get into the main draw. The wildcard is fun and everything but it really isn't fair.
     
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  31. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Ljubicic is no slouch on the red stuff. He was in the French semis just a couple years ago.

    The match was hard to watch though. Guga seemed to be hitting alright but his match awareness is very low. He doesn't know when to strike like he used to and he lets his opponent(s) back into the rally.

    I would say that, right now, lack of match play is his biggest problem. I mean, his injury issue is well known but even with the injury he could still play at a high level theoretically.
     
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  32. Leublu tennis

    Leublu tennis Legend

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    O.K. so he has an excuse for having such a minor record. But there is no excuse for showing off your injuries in public to make people sorry for him. Yes, its a sorry sight any time a good athlete just does not let go of that fame that he had at one time.
     
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  33. Leublu tennis

    Leublu tennis Legend

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    No, I said do we need this pathetic show. And, as you can see from some of the other posts, there is agreement out there that enough is enough. Thats all.
     
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  34. Leublu tennis

    Leublu tennis Legend

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    You are right he is probably historically a more important tennis player. I just wish he had a little bit more pride in his accomplishments just to let it go.
     
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  35. Mikael

    Mikael Professional

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    I know about his injuries, the reason I'm surprised is that only last year he was still able to win matches here and there. I believe he even beat Volandri on clay. I don't think he's gotten injured since then... Maybe he just didn't prepare well enough for this season. Or who knows, maybe I'm wrong and he'll win matches in Barcelona and the FO. I certainly hope so...
     
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  36. big ted

    big ted Hall of Fame

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    gugas not asking for any hoopla over him. tournament directors, fans, and journalists are doing that becuz its a big story. he just wants to play until the french open (where it all started for him), and im sure he certainly didnt plan on getting clobbered in the 1st round every tournament. for the wildcards, they give them to ppl with drawing power, like guga, borg in '91, etc.. if mcenroe at 50 wanted a monte carlo wild card next year im sure they would give him one too, and if u were a tournament director (whos goal is to make $) im sure u would give him one too...
     
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  37. !Tym

    !Tym Hall of Fame

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    Well, I think you can only make that accusation if it's been proven that Guga wants people to feel sorry for him. To me, Guga just looks like a guy who loves the sport of tennis, but knows that because of his injuries he's no longer the same player. And yet, to me, if I were a huge Guga fan, I'd want to see one of the former defining characters of the old guard one last time. I don't care if he's no longer competitive, as a fan I'd still rather see him than whoever that guy was who just won the US Clay Court Championships for example. It's like in pro wrestling, an old crowd favorite and star makes a guest appearnace years removed from his physical prime and the crowd still wants to cheer for him and pretend that he's still got it for one last night, so humor me. I've seen a million and one tennis matches in my life, every now and then it's refreshing just to watch a match where the tennis is less important than the human beings on the court.

    To me, Kuerten is doing his fans a huge favor by playing it out one last time. Me? I'm still angry that Bruguera just decided to call it quits with no warning. He basically just showed up for his hometown tournament, with a small tuneup, then retired. I was shocked that with the French Open just a few weeks away, he wouldn't retire there as Kuerten plans.

    And yet, the thing is, Bruguera was foiled by injuries, yes, BUT he had also recovered enough by the end that he could still be remotely competitive. He nearly beat Moya and Ferrero and Pavel right before Pavel went onto win his only masters event. He said in practice, that he had finally worked himself back into shape, and that he in practice, he was playing at a top ten level again, just needed more matches and confidence again.

    His last match against Canas, he stretched him to a close three-setter with practically no warmup, and Canas would then go on to have a stellar French Open. Was he in his prime? No, but he was still physically *able* enough that it was conceivable for him to get hot for a match or two and put on one last good match or showing at the French, IF he was truly motivated. Physically, he wasn't totally incapable is the point.

    The thing is he just didn't want to. Bruguera was completely burned out on tennis by that point, and had bad basically lost all interest. He said he didn't think he'd ever touch a racket again after he retired, his interest in tennis had waned that significantly.

    The whole point of him retiring SOMEWHERE, anywhere, for him seemed to be more well, I guess I have to formally retire somewhere and just get it over with.

    With Guga, it's not like that. You can tell the kid INSIDE still wants to play. After all the injury setbacks, it just seems as though that just wants to make him savor every last minute he DOES get on a court even more.

    Guga's problem though is that there are two kind of injuries in sports. There are those you can recover from, and those you can't. It appears as though Guga falls into the latter.

    A guy like Ferrereo for example got injury riddled for awhile, and has never been the same since. And yet, with him, physically he has recovered enough to the point where you get the feeling that there's still a little something left in him yet. His problem is more not believing in himself anymore and the other players sensing that.

    Guga on the other hand, PHYSICALLY just plain looks hallow. He's physically not able to move well AT ALL out there. Basically, he's been reduced to a lunger with "pro form." As many will attest, having nice form wins you NOTHING in tennis, *especially* at the pro level.

    Guga in other words has been reduced strictly to a ball machine player. He's no longer able to make dynamic movements or mid-flight adjustments anymore, it IS sad to see.

    Does that mean I don't want to watch his every last send off match hoping somewhere along the way he just might find ONE match in him where he looks even a little like his old self? NO.

    To me, the hope of seeing Guga turn in one last "magical" performance is what keeps me watching. It gets me rooting and engaged on a personal level, the same way you would in a sappy movie plot, I want to see it even if it's unbelievable and unrealistic. Miracles DO happen in sports, and to me that's what Guga's hoping for as am I, just ONE MORE beautiful match.

    Is he capable physically anymore? I'd say from what I saw today 98% unlikely, but wholly unthinkable? No, I don't and won't believe that. I hold out hope for that last two percent 'till the bitter end.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
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  38. RealityPolice

    RealityPolice Rookie

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    Not that Kuerten is anywhere near the same boat, but Ivanisevic could have easily packed it in rather than taking a Wimbledon wildcard. Tennis could easily have lost out on one of its greatest stories had he done so.
     
    #38
  39. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    i can almost guarentee the people that say he shouldnt get wildcards have never seen him play in his prime.

    he's not playing for himself, he's playing for his fans. they wanna see him one more time. he knows he's gonna lose, but if playing means making his fans happy, he'll do it.
     
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  40. bumblebee

    bumblebee Rookie

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    GO KUERTEN!!!
    i doubt this, but i hope he wins French open, like ivanisevic at wimbledon, and then retires happy...
     
    #40
  41. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    The three handed BH. I have been teaching it for years even though I use a one-hander.
    Well, it's not really three hands. One of the hands is a foot. In a way. It's also a lefty forehand. In a way.
     
    #41
  42. CBORNANCINI

    CBORNANCINI New User

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    If you don´t like this, just don´t see it.
     
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  43. SempreSami

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    What? They should have built the towers horizontally?
     
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  44. ChiefAce

    ChiefAce Semi-Pro

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    So you really think the next evolution of tennis is hitting forehands off both sides? That would be the theory, to teach someone to have a forehand weapon off both wings if they were capable of doing it. That way high balls wouldn't be a problem on either side, but if this is the thought I can't say I agree with you. Other players have already been capable of this, a kid that played at the university of georgia a few years back I think.
     
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  45. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    The poor guy's hip prevents him from running anymore. There were so many shots that he could have run for against Ljubicic if he was healthy but he just can't anymore. He's only saying goodbye to the fans though, he knows he isn't going to win and he knows his body is done.

    Bye Guga, it's been fun watching you.
     
    #45
  46. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    Like many of you, I supported Guga's retirement tour until I caught an encore broadcast of his match against Lubcic. It was pathetic. It didn't look like Guga was enjoying himself during the match, and he certainly didn't provide fans with anything they could get behind and cheer about.

    If he can't deliver a credible performance, I think he should retire so that the last memory his fans have aren't those of a battered and broken former champion.

    Imagine if Michael Jordan had come out of retirement and played, not like a very good player on a mediocre team (Wizards), but like the worst player on the Washington Generals (Harlem Globetrotters' punching bag). A sad send off for a beloved champ.
     
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  47. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    I would have preferred if Guga just showed up as his favourite tournaments and played some exhibitions versus some juniors and then did some autograph sessions with his fans. That would be a better send off than playing in matches which he has no chance of winning.

    This way Guga wouldn't have to be embarassed by being trounced and Guga and his fans would both enjoy themselves more.
     
    #47
  48. scineram

    scineram Professional

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    Agreed the last two.
     
    #48
  49. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    Guga should have been on the beach two years ago enjoying his retirement. To see his career sputter and die slowly has been sad. You got to know when to fold.
     
    #49
  50. Gugafan

    Gugafan Hall of Fame

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    Guga had some of the most graceful groundstrokes on the tour. Despite no longer being competative,the unique grunt and fluid shotmaking is always going to be eyecatching for tennis fans.

    The former king of the clay has left us with some great memories at Roland Garos. Win or lose at the FO I would love him to draw a heart in the clay for the final time.
     
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